A few points to consider when posting finds & experiences on forums - ANY FORUMS!

[Andy Sabisch]

Over the years I have seen many posts that leave me scratching my head wondering what the person was thinking or should I say not thinking when they hit the final ENTER key. With some of the controversy that has come up on this forum and others lately, I wanted to pass on some points to consider when you are thinking of posting something . . . . do with it what you may:

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1) Do you think only your fellow detectorists read these forums? Having done several articles for magazines that cater to the National Park Service and professional archeologists, I can tell you with absolute certainty that archeologists, park service personnel and law makers do in fact read the posts on a regular basis. If you want to ensure more and more sites are closed to future hunting, then by all means post historically significant finds, details on where they were found and be sure to omit the statement that they were found on private property with permission of the landowner. In discussions with Park Superintendents going back more then 15 years, I have heard time and time again of finds made by detectorists from sites that are in fact protected. And these finds shown on printed pages from the forums were pulled from files and shown to me by those in the position of making the laws we are facing. The recent issue of state waters in Wisconsin being closed to detecting was greatly influenced by people postings photos of prehistoric copper artifacts that were being recovered from state owned lands and had been for years. When no one knew about them or publicized where they came from things were fine but when the posts showed the artifacts and then said they came from site X or site Y which was state owned, what reaction did we expect? Exactly what happened!

Think about the photos you post and if you do feel the need to post photos, add that they were found on private property with permission of the owner . . . . take a look at the photos relic hunting legend Ed Fedory publishes . . . since day one he always adds that to his posts. articles or books and does it for a reason.

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2) Do you think all detectorists have strong morals when it comes to hunting someone elses sites? If you find a killer site, you have to be a simpleton or extremely naive to post the specifics of the site where someone else can identify where you were. It would be great to say everyone would respect someone else's spots that they found but that is like asking a fisherman not to fish your "honey hole" . . . . . there will be 100 guys fishing the spot within 24 hours and detecting is no different. There are very few people I am willing to take to sites I have researched and are producing for that very reason . . . . . I have made that mistake too often in the past and in each case, one person takes two more who in turn take 4 more and so on . . . and the next thing I know the site is cleaned out. "Legal in USA" clearly messed up posting specific details of the golf course and describing why it was a great site to hunt . . . . . if there is a hunter within driving distance that is not at least thinking of hunting it, they must have a dozen other killer sites to hunt. But in fact he is not alone . . . . I will not hunt someone's site - does not matter of they took me there or they made the mistake of mentioning it in passing . . . . just do not do it. Unfortuately that is a psoition most do not hold . . . heck, the local club is always listening for site leads from "newer" members and have gone in cleaning out several very productive sites . . . . think who you are talking to - they are looking for sites and most will clean yours out given the chance.

Bottom line . . . . unless you are willing to open the door to every hunter with a computer (or a friend with a computer) within 100 miles, [size=large]DO NOT POST DETAILS OF YOUR SITE![/size] This includes photos that can be identified or or information that someone can deduce where you where.

In my latest book I have a photo of a George Washington button found by John Manger in Maryland. Well, he made the mistake of posting a photo of the find as well as the house he found it at where he had permission. Well, it took less than 24 hours for someone to identify it and John had to ask for the post to be pulled . . . several people went and hunted it without permission and John took the heat for their actions.

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3) Think about particularly rare finds before you post them: If your find has historical significance think twice before you post the photos and details of the find . . . you may be proud of your find and want to share it but as #1 above discusses, the audience is far larger than your fellow detectorists . . . . and they can easily figure out where it comes from.

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Until we have a system like the UK does where finds are cataloged by the local coroner or as we call then historians which encourages hunters to being in what they find along with specifics of where and how it was found to build a database used by historians, there will always be a group trying to shut us all down as we are perceived as "grave robbers" looting historical treasures. We can work to change that perception but many of the posts that appear on forums simply give the other side the ammunition that they are looking for to pass laws and close areas.

Just some points to consider . . . . . . . hope they are taken in the spirit in which they were intended.

Andy Sabisch

 

[John-Edmonton]

I too have posted something similar, only to be ostracized, accused of jealously, told to bud out. Some people have actually severed contact with me because I was only making a point, so as to protect new people to the hobby, and also protect it so my own children and their children could also have the opportunity to share such a wonderful hobby. Unfortunately, some people cannot delay the gratification of getting some of the rarest finds at any expense, ruining it for everyone else in the long run. I am glad you made such a post.

The treasures are out there, and can easility obtained without breaking written laws to prtect some sites. And a little common sense to keep your mouth shut and camera pics done so as to not open up sites for everyone else. I too have some horror stories about some sites being destroyed in my neck of the woods, but that is another story in itself.

Again, some great words of wisdom and "THANKS!"

 

[Uncle Willy]

Thanks Andy old bud. Words of wisdom to live by. I have experienced many of the things you eluded to. I learned a long time ago to attempt to keep my mouth shut concerning finds and sites. Many years ago I posted a pic of some trees in an article in Lost Treasure that were on a site I hunted regularly and it didn't take long unil detectorists were all over it like flies on honey. One just can't be too careful in this hobby. No matter how bad one wishes to toot their horn about finds or a site - just stop and think and " COOL IT." Thanks for the timely reminder.

Bill

 

[Majorgeek]

Sadly, as a fairly new detector this should be common sense. People just don't I have spent a ton of time so far both reading books and online, talking to the locals and more to find some sweet spots. In the past 2 days I have tried two new spots with some pretty good luck, although mostly common coins. I also have two more spots the locals have told me about. All I have said is that I am beachcombing, don't think I even shared which state I am in. Sadly, some people don't want to put in the effort and I certainly did not do it just to post it online. I am sure the real reason is many people are offended because most of us hobbyists are a tight knit community. Even people I meet on the beach who ask how I am doing are told "a few coins, lot of garbage".

What should be added to your post is that if you feel you must share locations, do it via the private message system with people you know have been around the community for years. While people might think they are being friendly and helpful, they are unintentionally doing the opposite.

Thanks for the post, I hope it can be organized and made a sticky in most of the forums.

 

[Andy Sabisch]

And anyone that would cut off dealing with you for calling it the way you see it (and have lived it as many of us unfortunately) has a bit to learn about this hobby. I have been involved in detecting for 45 years now and the hobby has changed on many fronts over that time . . . . for the better and the worse.

A bit of common sense goes a long way in virtually anything we do and treasure hunting is no different . . . and if anything requires even more since $$$ tend to make people act in ways they normally would not.

Andy

 

[slingshot]

I was shocked to actually see this happen about 20 years ago in my treasure club. The site was pilfered and holes were left. Fortunately at this time I was priviliged to be introduced to the writings of Karl Von Mueller and others similar to his thinking. Another good reason is because others may not have concerns about the condition the site is left in-the reason I left the club is because one member would not repair his holes EVEN with us going behind him and repairing them with him there. While this is simply a different repeat of what you just said-my blood has been boiling for over 20 years that a hobby and lifelong pleasure could be just cast away for thoughtlessness.

 

[Uncle Willy]

Me too Andy. I started in the hobby in 1963-64 with a Metrotech - a primo machine of the day. Where have all the years gone?

Bill

 

[Mick in Dubbo]

n/t

 

[fongu]

The bible says: "Don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing". That was good advice thousands of years ago and it's good advice now.

 

[Joel-Winnipeg]

A timely post ! Many thanks Andy.!

 

[marcomo]

Andy - I wholeheartedly agree with what you said.

Loose lips sink ships. Specifically, loose lips deplete your hard earned sweet spots for detecting.

"Deep research" for many is lurking on these boards looking for clues on places to detect.

We all have a reponsibility to "do no harm" - to the land or our right to detect.

Unfortunately it always happens in life - we all pay the price for those few knuckleheads who have no ethics and even less intelligence.

Also when you post pictures of that extremely valuable find, remember that all finds you make are legally subject to taxation.

 

[cwilk]

I think I spotted the post that prompted this thread. I am always reluctant to post specifics about my sites from a purely selfish perspective.

Well written and well thought out post. Guess that's why your books are so fab!

Chris

 

[lazyaussie]

great post mate & some very wise words

 

[padiggin]

Andy

I agree with what you wrote, however I wanted to respond with some of my points of view and opinion on the paragraph you wrote above.

First of all, I would like to mention that if Park Service personnel and law makers are regularly reading the postings on this forum, I'd have to question why they are receiving a tax payer based salary to sit in their offices to read forums such as this. In fact, if that is the case, I believe we all need to be writing our local congressional representative and submit written complaints that federal and/or local gov't employees are violating their agency policy on internet usage during duty hours. These gov't Park Service employees work for us, we do not work for them. And since my tax dollars are going to support their salaries, housing allowances, great gov't health care plans, life insurance, and retirement plans and cost of living increases that they enjoy annually, I expect that they will obey and follow their agency policy on internet abuse and carry out their public service duties by worrying more about assisting park visitors, keeping the rest rooms clean, and the property well groomed. Worrying about where metal detecting hobbyists are making their finds is not in their job descriptions I'm sure.

Secondly, while I agree with not posting the exact locations of finds (which if the Park Service public employees are reading this, they will now know we are being secretive about our finds), posting "found on private property with permission of the land owner" means nothing, especially since these public servants are attempting to squash any type of recovery efforts to include private property. It means nothing for two reasons, 1) because how is that statement proof that a person actually found the artifact on private property with permission of the land owner? A person can write anything and that doesn't necessarily make it fact or the truth. And 2) these "public servants" do not respect private property themselves. They want control. Control over you, control over what you do and what you own/possess. Just like in Kentucky where the law makers are attempting to pass a law restricting what you recover on private property "with permission of the land owner."

Again - I'm not arguing with what you wrote, I basically agree with all that you wrote. I'm just appalled that if you know for a fact, that gov't archeologists and park service employees, salaried by the tax payers, are reading these forums when they really should be out researching areas to do their work, assisting park visitors, developing artifact displays, cleaning the rest rooms, and mowing the properties of public lands, shame on them for abusing their agency policy on internet usage while we, the tax payers are paying their nice cushy salaries, and other perks to include annual cost of living increases. And shame on all of us for not raising our voices collectively to stop the intrusion of our rights by public officials. I'll get off my soap box now - hopefully a few fellow archeologists and park service employees read my comments. I'd love to know what any of them would have to say in order to justify their actions.

 

[lazyaussie]

padiggin you may find the parks people might detect or are interested in it so are members of this forum. as for archaeologists we detectorists do for a hobby what they do for a job/life ( witch is dig up & find interesting & historically significant finds ) & we tend to find a lot more interesting & valuable finds as we don't have to sift tons of dirt to get em . the part they don't like is that once we find an item we ether keep them or sell them & very few go to a museum so if they can stop a few Roge detectorists digging up items from protected sites i would say it"s a part of there job.
as for posting items were found on private property it covers your @$$ over there in the US unfortunately not here in Australia

 

[DJR]

Andy I applaud you and agree whole heartily in your statements.

This is happening in ALL aspects of the "treasure hunting hobbies". This includes fossils, rocks and minerals, antiquities, so on and so on. It is a certain bad bunch of individuals that are ruining it for the majority unfortunately.

I for one am looking out for the individuals who may be new and don't know the ethics of our hobby and voice to them those ethics when I see them. However there are individuals out there and they know who they are that do this kind of stuff on a regular basis knowing what they are doing is wrong and don't care and if you are one of those you will be confronted someday and it probably won't be a good experience at all! I am still watching for my "hole digger" here in Fl and I hope he is reading this as when I find you it will NOT be a good and pleasant conversation.

padiggin

I am a public servant (government employee) and I don't abuse the rules as you say the government employees are doing in the Park Service. I come home and read via the computer! Imagine that? So don't think these individuals are not doing the same and wasting public funds. Also IF they are in the law enforcement portion of the Park Service that is part of their duty to search out sources of violate rs and what more easier place than the websites that support the hobbies that are impacting these sites? I see it as saving money by utilizing FREE data via the computer! How do you think the Department of Law Enforcement, National Security Agencies and the other law agencies get there best tips? Via the PC! I hope I am not offending you but I hate when I hear that "government money is being wasted by..." people are doing there jobs and it is part of their jobs. It is called investigation.


We all need to be on top of ALL the rules and regs that are being worked out as we a re reading this stuff and hopefully change it to where it is not going to severly impact alot of recreational hobbiest in all aspects of interests. There are alw makers out there trying to close almost every type of "collecting hobby" for no good reasons at all. We will have a society that will be come couch potatoes. Do we want that?

Don

 

[Rainman]

You have some timely advice. I have been detecting since the early 80's and have seen more and more sites closed by local, state and federal officials. It's time we started pressing our elected officials to institute a program similar to England where you can get compensated if you find items of historic significance. I am an archaeologists,went back to college after retirement to study anthropology, but I started out as a metal detector enthusiast first and still practice my hobby whenever possible. I know most of the people in the occupation think that they know best and have some heated conversations on this subject. The nice part about being on the inside is that I get first crack at sites I would never have known about. Until we can get a more receptive program, keeping a lid on is the best policy.