A Question About Audio Strength

[RLOH]

I have been using my Omega for about a month and a half . So far I am very pleased with the ease of use and the quality of the finds I have made with it. I have one complaint about the audio on deep coins. I have found enough deep wheats and silver dimes to recognize what a deep coin sounds like. On my Omega, while running in three tone mode, a deep(7 inches plus) is a barely audible high whisper. I have a great set of phones(Killer B Hornets) and on these deep signals, the sound is very weak. Are other Omega users finding the audio to be like what I am experiencing? I have my volume on the phones set as high as I can stand when I encounter a shallow coin or signal so turning up the volume is not an option. Now for the good. I have found either wheat pennies or silver coins almost every time I have used the Omega and most have been deep. I do not think It is a great nickle finder as I will dig 10 square tabs for every nickle. I am digging every lock on 56 57 signal and most are proving to be junk.My settings ground balance 62, sens 80, disc 15, with nothing notched. I am curious to see how experienced Omega users are hearing deep signals. R.L.

 

[bugg]

Yes, the deeper the target, the smaller the sound on the omega. When I got into the detecting hobby in the 1970's, all machines were set up this way. Then came the machines that gave the same audio on any target 0-6 inches. Alot of complaints arose from operators who did not have a clue how deep the target was. If you drop down to two tone audio, alot of targets have different characteristics in how they sound. After a while I'm able to figure out what the target is before looking at the TID. Picking out grungy nickels I still find challenging.

 

[Cal_Cobra]

I got an 8" deep wheatback and the audio was very faint, but the TID was dead on....impressive.

An audio boost feature like the CZ's have would be a nice feature though as I'm sure the machine can hit even deeper coins, BUT will you hear them?

 

[RLOH]

I agree with your statement:will you hear them? I used CZ's for years and came to like the "boost feature. Under 4 or 5, the signal woud be modulated and over this the signal would be boosted. I do like a detector with modulated audio, but I should have been more specific about the Omega's modulated audio on deep coins. I am experiencing almost inaudible high tones on any coin deeper than 7 inches or so. I agree that this detector seems to be be much deeper than the audio will report sharply. I am getting a very slight signal at these depths, but it seems to be too slight. Again, I am using top notch phones. I would hope that the engineers could incorporate a boost feature to get the most out of this fine detector. R.L.

 

[Monte]

Note that I've taken the liberty to do a little cut-and-paste with your post to combine a few thoughts.

I have been using my Omega for about a month and a half . So far I am very pleased with the ease of use and the quality of the finds I have made with it.

With all of us, location is still going to be the #1 key to old-coin success, but it does sound like you not only have good sites to hunt, but the Omega is serving you well. One thing I didn't note in your post was which search coil you're using.

I have one complaint about the audio on deep coins. I have found enough deep wheats and silver dimes to recognize what a deep coin sounds like. On my Omega, while running in three tone mode ... My settings ground balance 62, sens 80, disc 15, with nothing notched.

Through the years I have used many models that had ONLY a fully modulated audio. I like them, but did struggle at time to hear the deeper coin responses. With some of the more modern models, that's different because they have a saturation factor designed in with the Sensitivity setting. One example would be White's MXT. When you adjust below the '80' "Preset" setting and progressively reduce the gain (Sensitivity) you will have a more modulated audio response ... and lose some ability to hit on the deeper coins. However, adjusting above the preset setting you increase the gain and the Saturated Audio function, and this produces a louder response.

Play around wit your Omega and you'll note the same sort of abilities. That is, by adjusting down from a certain setting you'll shift into a more modulated audio and deeper targets start to trail-off to weaker responses as you do. Increasing the Sensitivity, however, will also add a bit to the target signal and essentially saturate the audio out a bit farther. Now, if you're in a noisy environment (a loft of EMI) and have to reduce the Sensitivity then you'll have to live with the more modulated response. if, however, you can increase it to '99' or close to it, you'll get the most audio response available. It will saturate or enhance that deeper target, at least to its best ability.

...a deep (7 inches plus) is a barely audible high whisper. I am curious to see how experienced Omega users are hearing deep signals.

Yes, but I know that part of it is my impaired hearing, and part I associate with the reduced Sensitivity level a particular site requires. For the most part, however, in most of the conditions I hunt in I can get a decent audio 'hit' from coins in the 5"-7" range. I know they are there, and on occasions even to 8" or 9" or ??? I just make it a point to master the detector in hand and learn its strengths and weaknesses and then get the most out of it.

) ... and on these deep signals, the sound is very weak. Are other Omega users finding the audio to be like what I am experiencing? I have found either wheat pennies or silver coins almost every time I have used the Omega and most have been deep.

Best suggestion is keep on working the old-coin producing sites and just work at mastering the Omega. Try increasing the Sensitivity as high as possible, too.

I have a great set of phones (Killer B Hornets). I have my volume on the phones set as high as I can stand when I encounter a shallow coin or signal so turning up the volume is not an option.

I use the Killer B 'Wasp' and love them, as well as the SunRay Pro Gold (same basic headphones) and I keep the headphone volume set at maximum. This will let me hear the best response from a deeper target. If I get into an area with a lot of shallower targets, then I toggle the Wasp's so that I 'clip' those louder surface reports such that they sound like the weaker, older, deeper targets

I do not think It is a great nickle finder as I will dig 10 square tabs for every nickle. I am digging every lock on 56 57 signal and most are proving to be junk.

I am still 'averaging' over 11% Nickels in my coin counts and I really like the Omega 's audio options. I will usually hunt in d2 if I suspect a site to hold deeper coins as I get better all-around depth and performance. However, when I want to hear tones, I also like to have an 'alert' of a potential 5

 

[RLOH]

n/t

 

[Mick in Dubbo]

Although I've only got a few hours (literally) on the Omega, something that has stood out about those square pull tabs as opposed to our Aussie 10c pieces (which are in the heart of pull tab range) is that unless a pull tab is just about touching the coil, it won't cause an overload signal. Our 10c pieces will give an overload signal down to a depth of 3 inches. On shallow targets, it makes it a cinch to tell them apart and I don't often dig deep pull tabs. I don't know how big your 5c pieces are, but I hope that they have a greater mass than pull tabs. It'll be interesting to see how rings respond in this range. I'll find out when I get my Omega back.
Mick Evans.

 

[bugg]

the rage was to buy a depthmaster. Plug it into the detector headphone jack, plug your headphones into it, and it would amplify the weak signals, and cut down the volume on the strong signals. I wonder if they are still around, and if that gadget would work on the omega?

 

[Monte]

Monte, remember back in the 1980's the rage was to buy a depthmaster.

The "Depthmaster" was the biggest name in providing such a product. There were a few others out there, however.

Plug it into the detector headphone jack, plug your headphones into it, and it would amplify the weak signals, and cut down the volume on the strong signals.

It didn't work well on all models. It did 'OK' on those that were analog and had a very modulated audio, such that they had a "weak signal" to be enhanced. I recall sitting in the audience at a Texas Council of Treasure Clubs show back in '88 or '89 and getting a chuckle. Sondra Bernzweig, back then when the company was called Depthmaster, was explaining what they offered to the audience when a fellow raised his hand and asked, actually stated, that the Depthmaster's didn't work with the new Bounty Hunters. She said they did and a few others raised their hands while shaking their heads side-to-side to confirm that, No, they didn't. She said they did and I thought it was interesting at the time. Just didn't understand at time moment because it was just a sign-of-the-times as we were experiencing some rapid advancements in the realm of detector design.

You see, the Depthmaster, and similar products designed to cut down on the audio blare of surface/shallow coins and to augment the "weak signals" kind of worked on models that produced a "weak signal." Old Bounty Hunters, such as the TR's and VLF/TR's of the late '70s and into '80s did function with that modulated audio design and there were weak signals to process. But at the time, the big seller and quite popular Bounty Hunter was the Big Bud, Bid Bud Pro, and others with that new design. They design that made them so popular was that they uses a saturated audio and a "clipped filter" design. In other words, they required a certain amount of signal strength to process the audio, and then 'clipped" the lesser responses. What was accepted was processed at full volume. What wasn't accepted, all the very weak and sputtery, 'iffy' signals, were "clipped and not passed along.

So, those deeper targets now produced a loud audio response similar to the surface or shallower targets. ALL accepted target would sort of 'bark' out at you since the audio was [u[]saturated[/u] for all targets received regardless of the depth. And thanks to the fully saturated audio and clipped filters, there were no weak signals to be enhanced with a Depthmaster.

Many manufacturers started producing models that would provide a more enhanced audio response with varying amounts of saturation, thus limiting or nullifying the effects of a Depthmaster. It was, basically, useless with a growing number of detectors. This became more true when we went from an analog technology to digital technology.

I wonder if they are still around, and if that gadget would work on the omega?

They are still around selling metal detectors and accessories as metal detector dot com, if I remember, but not their old product.

The digital Omega wouldn't/doesn't work well with a Depthmaster design. At the very lowest Sensitivity settings I can tell a slight function with an old depthmaster product, but only when adjusted very low and without any EMI. Those little sputtery, noisy responses could often be treated as if a weak and 'iffy' signal and get enhanced. We have the ability to increase the Sensitivity with the Omega through a modulated range and then out of the linear adjustment (70 and below was stated) on up to where we can control the level of saturation.

It's great to have such good-performing detectors with a lot of user control and better audio qualities than a lot of those older makes/models we used to have available. Memories and flashbacks of those good old days. I think the best reflections I have are of the sites I hunted and the quantity and quality of the finds, not necessarily of the detectors we had early-on and the operating/handling required. While it makes me long for silver-filled sites of old, I am sure pleased we have lighter-weight and superior-operating detectors available to us today. Take a modern detector and add a set of headphones, such as the Killer B Wasp or SunRay Pro Gold that I use and I have no need for an in-line add-on.

Monte

 

[Monte]

Although I've only got a few hours (literally) on the Omega, something that has stood out about those square pull tabs as opposed to our Aussie 10c pieces (which are in the heart of pull tab range) is that unless a pull tab is just about touching the coil, it won't cause an overload signal. Our 10c pieces will give an overload signal down to a depth of 3 inches. On shallow targets, it makes it a cinch to tell them apart and I don't often dig deep pull tabs.

It's always interesting to learn about different detectors and coils. You didn't mention the coil you're using. I think you might want to double check the distances you're getting a true overload response from on your 10

 

[Mick in Dubbo]

Monte.
You are twice as fast a typer than I as I only use 1 finger. With the length of some of your posts, I thought you must have been a touch typist. I sure wish I was.
I'm sorry I can't help you out on numbers on the Omega. I did write them down on a small piece of paper, but I've lost it. I've sent my Omega back due to a number of problems and am hoping it will be back by Monday. If it arrives after that, then due to work commitments, I won't get it till next week end. What I can do is give you the numbers our our coins as I found them on my X-Terra 70. (I''ve pasted them from my post in FAQFAQ on the X-Terra forum.)
The following numbers are for Aussie coins for an X-Terra 70. They were down via air tests at 3 inches, in mode 1 and factory presets with the standard coil.
5 cents= 8
10 cents= 12
20 cents=20
50 cents=24
Silver round 50 cents=44
$1 = 32
$2 =30. They can on occasion bounce down to 28, but will bounce back.
1 cent= They tend to an even bounce between 34 and 36.
2 cents= Either 38 or 40 or can bounce between the two.

Pre-decimal coins.
Half penny George V=32 but did often bounce to 34.
Half penny after 1936 = 38.
Penny = 42.
Half silver (post 1945)
Three pence = 22
Six pence = 30 with occasional bounce to 32.
Shilling =32.
Florin = 38.
Full silver (pre 1945)
Three pence = 34.
Six pence = 38.
Florin = 44.
Gold Sovereign = 26.
While this list is not complete as far as pre-decimals go, they are what I have and are able to give numbers of.
Prior to 1966, we had pounds , shillings and pence. What we refer to as pre-decimal currency. After that, we changed over to our modern currency with the $ dollar as it's basis. When the pound was replaced here, it took $2 to replace 1 pound. $1 and $2 used to be notes till around 1982 and 1984 respectively. A $5 dollar coin was also considered at that time, but to date, it hasn't occurred., but may down the track. Notes only last on average a week, so there is logic to change. 1 and 2 cent pieces were dropped out of circulation due to the fact that the copper used in the coins became of greater value than the face value of the coin. The same thing happened to our round 50 cent pieces. They were made of 80% silver till they finally woke up to the fact that the silver content made it more valuable than the face value. Quite bizarre when you take on board the fact that our pre-decimal silver coins went from full silver to half silver in 1945 because of that fact! After that, they were made as a 12 sided coin with a diameter of 31.5 millimeters. ( 1 inch is 25 millimeters, normally written as 25mm.)
As to mintage of our coins. From 1788 when the first fleet landed here till I think it was around 1810 or so, a number of different currencies were used (barter was the main currency of the day though due to a lack of coins). Spanish coins were in common use and I think it was a Spanish Reale that had it's centre punched out, to create 2 coins of different value; the outer being called the holly dollar. The holly dollar would probably be the most valuable coin that can be found on these shores. The punched out coin, I think was called a 'dump' but I could be wrong on that. There was a coin called a 'dump'. We used English currency as the mainstay of our currency through to around the 1850's when the Sydney mint opened and minted our real gold coins, the sovereign and the half sovereign, which were minted from around 1855 till 1928. As an aside, Australian gold is more yellow than any other gold anywhere else in the world, which gives them a different colour to English ones. About this time, Aussie specific coins were minted in England from the I think it was around the 1850's till 1913, when we minted our own. Because of the lack of currency, a lot of companies over here, produced there own tokens till about the 1850's, which formed part of an informal currency and were in wide use. This has created an area of interest for a number of folks and are sort after. Today they can be commonly worth around $20 each to a collector with some being worth way more than that.
Our first mint was in Sydney, followed by Melbourne only 2 years later. At some point, the Perth mint was set up, but I'm clueless as to when, but suspect that it is only after our modern coins came out. The Perth mint is still in operation and produces our commemorative coins. The other 2 are no longer active. The Sydney mint is now a museum. The Canberra mint produces all our modern currency now. I was lucky enough to visit it back in the 70's on a school trip.
Copper pre-decimals are the penny (which we specifically call as that. We only ever call our 1c pieces as that. The penny is about the same size as your large cents.) and the half penny, which is about two thirds the size of the penny. Actually you may have solved the mystery for me the other day in one of your posts. Our 1913 to 1936 design half penny can cause the TID to bounce around a fair bit. Could be due to impurities in the metal as you commented on. Our silver coins are, the three pence, six pence, shilling and florin.
This post is really getting away from me a bit, but I'm sure it has given you a good background on the Aussie currency. As to what coil I was using with the Omega; it was just the standard one. I haven't bought any of the others yet.
I'll leave it there.
Mick Evans.

 

[Monte]

Quite an interesting post, Mick. I appreciated that read.I do trust that your Omega gets back in a timely manner and you're able to get out hunting again. I look forward to a post, or better still a direct e-mail, letting me know how the Aussie coins 'read' with the stock 10" coil.

As for coils, and certainly I and others have mentioned our biases, the 11" coil for the Omega is very good at coverage, and the 5" round DD coil is, without hesitation, a favorite of mine for a majority of my dense-trash, iron-infested condition searches. But the omega and that elliptical 10" concentric coil is very impressive for most hunting needs.

When you have the chance, an e-mail to me at: monte@ahrps.net would be welcome to convey the coin sampling.

Monte

 

[Mick in Dubbo]

Will do Monte.
Part of the attraction for me to the Omega, is it's Elliptical concentric coil. That's why I like my Ace. It seems to give you a good feel of a target. Love the audio fade for sizing and it has been great for both accuracy and feeling around targets. I'm looking forward to trying out the Omega's coil for all that. Once I've put some time on the Omega, I'll almost certainly get the other 2 coils to see what they can do. I just wish I took to new detectors better than I do. Not keen on the learning frustration of getting familiar with a new machine. I'll think of the experience as if I were learning a musical instrument.
Cheers.
Mick Evans.