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You gentlemen are so above my head with your knowledge but it you have problems with your chemical pumps, I am the right person to ask but you most likely do not have 300 to 700 pumps that you need seals in so...since I am trying to follow daily your sharing of electrical wizardary.... If the knowledge is available, from what I am reading it is, why is no one marketing a PI detector with descrimination. If a PI is made with iron desc. then most all VLF machines will be "boat anchors." What am I missing here? Does just not some of the manufactures need to be informed what the detecting public is wanting and needing. Heck I will get the letters started if you guys have the drawings. Nothing fuels the purse strings of a manager like knowing the public will buy the product....Frank
 
Frank,
Believe it or not, Eric Foster sold a PI with iron ID backin the 1980's. There have been many attempts to provide a good iron ID to PI's in the past. The main problem is that most of the methods which offer the highest potential require balanced search coils similar to those found in VLF's.
Many manufacturers like the PI as it only requires a single coil. It may well be that they feel that the advantage of the PI is lost by having to use a balanced search coil. I for one believe that future detectors will most likely be PI's in one form or another. It will not be long before discriminating PI's begin to take center stage. All the best, Dave. * * *
 
Frank:
Got seals for charge pumps?
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Several reasons why there are (as far as I know) no decent PI discriminators on the market.
1. Most of the methods for doing iron discrimination in PI's have severe limitations, raising the question whether they're even worth the effort.
2. The most sophisticated consumer-type PI metal detectors currently available are designed primarily for gold prospecting, an application which makes iron discrimination doubly difficult and for which iron discrimination is of very limited usefulness anyhow.
3. If there were a "Non-PI Tech Forum" with people spilling the beans on it the way it's been happening here on the PI Tech Forum, VLF might not look so ready for the junk heap after all. Sorry, can't say much more about that!
4. During the mid to late 1990's, most US manufacturers hunkered down and tried to rest on their laurels. Since then, three US companies have come under new management and are thinking seriously about the future again. When R&D has been languishing for several years, in this industry it usually takes 2-3 years to get things rolling again and get new products into production.
5. I believe that all the major metal detector companies monitor this forum and are aware of what's been happening here. I have notified four US companies just to make sure. Other people have notified the Australian company, which has probably monitored the forum nearly since its inception anyhow.
6. "Nothing fuels the purse strings of a manager like knowing the public will buy the product".
We would like to believe that businesses are run in a rational manner, and that the objective is to make money consistent with good ethics (usually).
Actually, businesses are run by human beings with all their glories and faults, driven more by instinct than by reason. The only reason that any of them stay in business is that their competitors are also badly flawed. The fact that each company has its own unique set of strengths and flaws is what allows them to find market share.
What I have just said about businesses also applies to engineers.
The reasons for this lie ultimately in the interaction of Second Law of Thermodynamics and the Information Theorem. But this is the wrong forum to go diving into that subject too deeply.
--Dave J.
 
four business managers and four engineers working for a company are taking a train to a conference.
the four business managers have four tickets between them.
the four engineers have one ticket between them.
when the ticket guy starts to enter the cab, the four engineers run into one of the bathrooms and shut the door.
the ticket guy punches the business managers tickets and then knocks on the bathroom door. A ticket comes out below the door and the ticket guy punches it and pushes it back.
On the return trip, the business managers have one ticket between them and the engineers have none.
the ticket guy starts to enter the cab, the business managers run into one of the bathrooms and shut the door. three of the engineers run into one of the bathrooms and the fourth goes over to the bathroom with the business managers and knocks. A ticket comes out below the door, and he takes it and runs into the bathroom with the other engineers.
The moral of the story is that no matter how smart the business managers are, they are never as smart as the engineers.
Don't know of any flaws engineers have.
JC
 
As you point out, JC, we engineers don't know of any flaws that engineers have.
The problem is that everyone else knows.
--DJ
 
So unless others can start designing they better not start pointing out their perception of our flaws. Just cause they ain't got nothing better to do all day then think about such things.
Liked your CodFisher story, funny the way Presidents (CEOs) or whatever can take complex problems and boil it down to something like "PI no good". Sounds so familiar.
JC
 
I worked between the owner of a company, he was also "The Engineer" and the customer. In this case my engineer was always listening and listening real close to what my customers were needing. My customers were Dow, Olin and Velsicol Chemical companies. The contracts were extremelly large and other Seal companies wanted the contracts. I kept my contracts without every losing even one for over 20 years and the contracts still are in place now. My engineer was a very good at designing, imagination and listening and he worked with the customer needs to improve. That said. I have been retired now for 3 years. My wife and I both detect and live in our motor home and we travel all over the country. We love beach detecting best but there is nothing we have not done yet. I carry 9 detectors in the motor home and have 2 stored. I am always looking to buy a new detector if it is an improvement over what we have. We are in Florida now and have been for 3 months and will be here for 2 more months. Going to the beaches all over Florida I run into detector people daily and most days meet at least a min. of 3 and many times 5 to 9 per day. I am always hunting behind quality detector people who are extremelly good at the hobby. I am using a High Powered PI detector now because hunting behind these people I am hunting "virgin" ground that their VLF detectors do not see. I sense and am told there is a dislike for PI detectors from most all I meet. Fact is they do not know about the new modern PI detectors that can run at 10 and 15uS with full power. So I know there is a waking of the mass of detector people who just need a little "mental attitude behavior adjustment" and the market of buyers are there already in place. When Silcon Carbine hit the market place it changed the world for pump seals and I can assure you the first 3 years was a job of changing attitudes of the mass--but it is now the center of the world of mechanical seals.
I would love to be one of the first to have one of these new High Powered Descrimminating PI detectors and have a 3 to 4 year head start on the field but in truth once one of you guys gets it done--it will not take 3 to 4 years for the word to spread. The only thing that is stopping the masses from buying the new high powered PI's right now is they all tell me "Hell there is nothing down that deep I would dig a hole like that to get, don't care if it is a 2 carat diamond, I'm not messing up my back!" Fact is most are lazy so they want a TV monitor that shows them a picture of what they are seeing in the ground so they can dig or not dig. I only want a PI that will tell me if it is iron or not so I can eliminate some of the deep holes, it is really the iron digging that is giving PI detectors the bad rep. Knock out the iron and you have the market by the balls.
Did not mean to write a book on the subject, but someone has got to be listening that can give the go word for you guys.
One or several of you very fine engineers who has got this licked, what I want....lets discuss getting it done, I am inthe market. Thank You....Frank
 
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