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Any thoughts on disc setting (ID Filter) for thick nails? :detecting:

DigFella

New member
As you saw by last weeks handful of coins, I have been enjoying the Racer & 3 tones in the thick iron nails of a mid-1800's hotel site that burned down in the 30's. Every sweep you hit nails, & It's been a spot I've used often to test new coils & detectors unmasking capabilies. I had recent sucess using the AT Gold, & it's iron audio listening to everything & waiting for high tones to squeak in. Last week's handful was done with the 5" coil, & 3 tones with the "preset" of 70 gain & disc 10. I didn't hear as many low "grunts" with Racer on disc 10. So, I want to keep the 5" coil on & experiment with settings. Anyone have any suggestions? Maybe backing down the gain to 60 or so (as depth is not critical in nails)? Perhaps a disc of 4 or 5 might allow me to hear more & hopefully unmask more as well. I have several "worked out" cellar holes I'd like to work the nails as well & i'm looking for a good starting point....
Thanks in advance
 
Yes dig fella. My understanding from Makro is to drop it to 9 and below. Makro designed the circuitry to "open up more" from between 10/9, and I believe 40/39 and 70/69 if i remember correctly.

Bubba
 
DigFella,

Jack Flynn over on the Nokta forum posted an interesting video showing the effects of decreasing the gain with a nail and coin. If you haven't seen it here is the link.

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?100,2172328

Randy
 
Anyone else notice the iron grunts in three tone vs two tone are a lot mor subdued? In two tone they bark at you but in the three tone you get little burps.
 
Iqwoz That is the disc working superbly, snap, crackle, and popping. Don't dig it..........That is the reason I love me some 3 tone. I never run 2 tone 3 works so good.


DigFella 10 is superb right where it comes on at. I would not raise it for the life of me. Try 5 for some extra added action. Letting the ears sort it all out is where these machines shine. They signal you oh so good to investigate something.
 
If you go below 10 you will hear mineral as low tones....but no more iron targets than you are hearing at 10...

I would stay at 10..it does give it a little more depth at 0 filter though but will pick up more EMI also.....but unmasking,,, not really the tone is breaking at 40 anyways...

you could paly around with it and see but the extra grunt will be mineral if you have some mineral to reprot on it....

good luck..

Keith
 
For the worst of iron 10 is the setting for ID filter. Now playing with the gain, sure 39 will work, 70 will too. Even higher; especially in 3 tone.
 
With my Primary Detector set-up and for the types of sites I hunt, I opt for the ± 7X11 DD coils for more open areas with fewer targets. Yes, I know they can still do pretty well in a 'busier' site, but there are good reasons to opt for a smaller coils and different settings.

In a Sparse target site, I usually use the 2-Tone search mode, bump the Gain up to '85' and on occasion a little higher, maybe to '95,' and I leave the ID Filter at the default setting of '10.' I usually like to hear all, or most, of the targets at a site, and let my ears discern the differences in the audio responses. If I encounter a piece of ferrous junk, I can slow my sweep a bit more and carefully work the search coil around the offending metal to see if there is a nearby desired target ... even if partially masked.


In an Icky target site, I am encountering more targets that are more closely spaced. Targets might be ferrous based or non-ferrous, it doesn't matter, there are just "more targets" to deal with. In these conditions I often make a search coil change before any setting adjustment change, and I go to either the 5.[size=small]5[/size]X10 DD solid coil, or the must-have 4.[size=small]7[/size]X5.[size=small]2[/size] 'OOR' Double-D coil. Many Racer users buy the Pro Pack and have just the standard and small coils and those work fine as a team. If you also have the mid-size enclosed DD, it makes a fine option.

As you noted, when working in any dense target environment, 'depth' is not the big issue or increasing the Gain. Instead, the first thing to do is opt for a smaller coil, then adjust the settings for peak performance for the conditions encountered. In this type of busier target condition I think it is more a matter of which mode we prefer and how much junk we want to hear. I guess I could say that the environmental challenges could run from "kind-of-Icky" to "pretty-darn-Icky" and only we can determine that for ourselves.

As such, I might opt for 2-Tone or 3-Tone search mode, and perhaps leave the Gain at the default of '70,' or decide to bump it up or down depending upon my comfort level for the conditions. Often I leave the ID Filter at the default setting of '10' because that lets me hear almost all the iron targets present, then I can audibly deal with the ear-traffic. However, if it is on the closer to annoying level of nails and iron trash, I simply bump the ID Filter to '23' which is sufficient to reject most iron nails. We can't get rid of all of them, or those that are bent at odd angles and pose an additional challenge. I just use a setting of '23' and hunt away.


When I deal with a Nasty target environment, then I almost always use the smaller 'OOR' coil, search in the 3-Tone mode maybe 90% of the time, and go no higher than an ID Filter setting of '23' to reject most nails. AS fore the Gain, I always increase it when it is in my favor, but if conditions are more of a challenge, then I use the default setting of '70' or reduce it to the point I am comfortable with the results for the site I am hunting.

You can experiment with a lower ID Filter setting, but I seriously doubt you'll do any better. A '10' is ample to deal with ground and rocks and such, but still pass along most iron targets. The '23' I use works fine, and I seldom have any reason to set it higher.

Monte
 
The reason I asked is that I've tried several other detectors at this nail ridden site where the hotel burned, & some detectors, (especially the AT's "iron audio") sounds like a machine gun on every sweep. Like I just went over 25 nails. The Racer at 10 disc is MUCH quieter & seems to show alot less nails per sweep (like say 3 or 4). Or perhaps Garretts "iron audio" is picking up all the mineralization as well, or just not re-setting itself quick enough? My T2 seemed "noisier" too. Not complaining in the least as the Racer preset/small coil combo got me that awesome 3 cent silver, barber dime, & the other coins & jewelry in one 15' square area (video to follow soon).
If I can get back there Sunday, I'll experiment in the same patch dropping gain & disc. I just feel I distinquish the high tone squeaks better & really bear down when I'm hearing more iron....
HH
 
DigFella said:
The reason I asked is that I've tried several other detectors at this nail ridden site where the hotel burned, & some detectors, (especially the AT's "iron audio") sounds like a machine gun on every sweep. Like I just went over 25 nails. The Racer at 10 disc is MUCH quieter & seems to show alot less nails per sweep (like say 3 or 4). Or perhaps Garretts "iron audio" is picking up all the mineralization as well, or just not re-setting itself quick enough? My T2 seemed "noisier" too. Not complaining in the least as the Racer preset/small coil combo got me that awesome 3 cent silver, barber dime, & the other coins & jewelry in one 15' square area (video to follow soon).
If I can get back there Sunday, I'll experiment in the same patch dropping gain & disc. I just feel I distinquish the high tone squeaks better & really bear down when I'm hearing more iron....
HH

"The Racer at 10 disc is MUCH quieter & seems to show alot less nails per sweep (like say 3 or 4). Or perhaps Garretts "iron audio" is picking up all the mineralization as well, or just not re-setting itself quick enough?"

Actually your comment needs addressing. Folks forget a detector that out separates another detector is also separating the iron/nails/iron bits better as well. So in fact I guarantee your Racer with small OOR coil at ID filter setting 10, you are going to hear more (higher percentage of what's under their respective coils) of the individual nails vs say AT Pro or T2 any size coil attached. And this is a good thing.
And you can get some nails and line them up and you will notice you will eventually get the nails where only the Racer with small coil you can count them based on the tone, T2 and AT Pro you will start coming up short on the count based on the tone produced.
 
Bill when I have been testing I use ten to start and a gain at about 40 to start like you said you don't need depth right now..and at 40 you will get still a lot of depth I like two tone and the higest tone set at 5....I think this is one of the best ways to hunt but I also have tried a gain of five and listen for even a distorted high tone and will dig and get some of those nails out of the way and then swing back over the area..I saw you video with the At Gold I would think the racer's coil is way tighter but I also have noticed that the foot print is a bit too large in tight iron with the disc set at 70 so I crank it down somethimes to even 10-29 that is the way I hunted in england in some of their iron sites with a DFX way back when and the small coil and I found a lot more then the others I was hunting with...
 
On the racer when you set the Filter at 10 you are nulling the below 10 and hearing the 10-40 as iron tone...

On the AT Pro when you set the disc/filter to say 32 to break the tone on nail you are hearing 0-32 as iron tone and this will include the mineral ...

so yes the AT PRo will report more grunt audio than the Racer at same spot if you leave the filter at 10...

The T2 has same type setup but the T2 is jsut inherantly more sparky and chatty...(Not the new V2 model though)...so even when its on 10 its more noisy wiht iron grunts msot are EMI caused....Put your Racer on zero in the same site on the next hunt and watch the gprund come alive with grunts...

Good luck
report back..

Keith
 
Is the racer 11" coil like the F75 11" coil meaning if i lower sens down on my F75ltd2 it seems to narrow the field of detection to get in between the junk..
 
Bill,
That is why I opted out. I have the ability on two of my other detectors to lower or not hear the iron volume when needed. Regards
DigFella said:
As you saw by last weeks handful of coins, I have been enjoying the Racer & 3 tones in the thick iron nails of a mid-1800's hotel site that burned down in the 30's. Every sweep you hit nails, & It's been a spot I've used often to test new coils & detectors unmasking capabilies. I had recent sucess using the AT Gold, & it's iron audio listening to everything & waiting for high tones to squeak in. Last week's handful was done with the 5" coil, & 3 tones with the "preset" of 70 gain & disc 10. I didn't hear as many low "grunts" with Racer on disc 10. So, I want to keep the 5" coil on & experiment with settings. Anyone have any suggestions? Maybe backing down the gain to 60 or so (as depth is not critical in nails)? Perhaps a disc of 4 or 5 might allow me to hear more & hopefully unmask more as well. I have several "worked out" cellar holes I'd like to work the nails as well & i'm looking for a good starting point....
Thanks in advance
 
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