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Best Battery for 9 - volt uMax units

reddirtfisher

New member
:cool: Hi , I know this has probably come up in the past, but I want to draw everyone's attention to a really good battery for the uMax single battery 9-volt units. I use the Panasonic Industrial 9 volts number 6LR61-9V.
I recommend it because it takes absolutely no pressure to install and fits perfectly. I have one uMax unit that I got used and the former owner tried to use cheap batteries and big 9 volt rechargeables and it tore the chrome coating right off of the contact tabs. There is copper underneath the coating. This doesn't affect the operation of the unit at all,...it just looks bad. I have been getting my batteries off Ebay. Happy Hunting, RDF. :cool::tesoro::detecting:
 
Actually thats kind of a trick question here and some will disagree with me.
If your talking about the newer models. The cibola or vaquero. I would use the best alkaline 9v batteries I can find. They seem to draw more power than the older models and the golden/bandido/outlaw type models.
I have no problems using recharageable 250 ma 9volt batteris for a whole day of hunting,on them.
 
I went with low self drain rechargeable 9V/AA batteries and never looked back.

tabman
 
I've been getting Duracell Procell 9v batteries off of Amazon for $15.25 per dozen with free shipping. I imagine it will take me most of a year to use a box.

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tabman said:
I went with low self drain rechargeable 9V/AA batteries and never looked back.

tabman

What brand did you get tabman? I have always run Duracell Coppertops and they are not what they used to be. I used to get about 15-16 hours on them, but the now I am getting about 8-9 hours out of them. Thankfully there is enough life left in them I can use them in the Propointer till there gone.
 
:cool: I saw a news story on Yahoo news about batteries. They tested all different brands and the results were that the cheaper brands did as well or better than Duracells. They also said that it wasn't the battery itself that determined energy drain but it was the devise it was used on. Some devises used up energy faster than others. Interesting.
 
Just a reminder the porfomace of the battery will effect depth , I was told from tesoro to use only alkaline . For me a few more bucks in batteries is ok I rarely let them get to low.

Their has to be a drop in depth as voltage decreases, this would be a great test idea. Measure voltage , then see how depth changes if at all?

I use raovac or Duracell .
 
Don't know what might be lurking around in the Tesoros, but in terms of less voltage giving less depth, most if not all modern detectors use a voltage regulator to keep a constant static stable voltage to the circuit board. Meaning, as the battery drains from say 12V down to 11 or lower, it won't make a lick of difference as to what the circuit board sees. If they voltage regulator is designed for say an 8 or 9V output, then that's what the board sees no matter how much voltage you feed the regulator.

And, if the voltage is too high, it can cause the regulator to either burn out or shut down on a thermal overload until it cools off (if it has one). Reason why the output voltage is kept constant and unchanging, is that if it was constantly seeing a moving/chaging/draining voltage, the detector would be drifting and becoming unstable, or at the very least would require some kind of constant user adjustment to stabilize things. It's not like a flashlight, where as the battery drains the bulb gets less bright.

So long as the source voltage (battery) is above the minimum required input to the regulator, then most if not all modern detectors are going to get the same amount of depth when the battery is new versus when it's getting near the low battery alarm. I've played with linear regulators in projects, and the required minimum input voltage is usually say 1 or so volts above the static voltage. In other words, if it's putting out 9V, then the minimum input voltage might be around 10V, where when it drops to around that, the low battery alarm kicks in.

I've seen people try to increase the depth of a modern machine by running more voltage to it. If there is a regulator between the battery and the circuit board, all they are doing is risking frying the regulator. They usually have a rather wide input range they can handle, or at least the ones I've played with in the past did, but there are limits. Linear regulators, for one, bleed off excess voltage buy shunting it off as heat to a heat sink on the top of them.

Should the heat generated by too excessive voltage be beyond what the heat shrink can bleed off as it runs, then the ones I've messed with have an internal thermal overload that will shut it down. Once cooled off, if your lucky it'll work again, but the overloads are meant as a safety and not a switch intended to be relied on, as they have a limited life span and might fail in 1 trip or might fail in 20. You just never know, because they were never intended to be used.

Alkalines are usually the type that are needed to be used in detectors. Those cheaper non-alkaline types are probably a bad move unless a manual says they are OK to use. Rechargeables are a far better option to save money these days. Needless to be throwing out batteries and money with it, when a good nimh will give you hundreds of cycles if not more before it needs replaced.

Used to be years ago Nimhs and nicads had very low capacity compared to what you can get them in these days. Higher capacity= more run time, but with the lower capacities of years ago, people to this day believe they don't offer much by way of run times. Truth is a good 2500ma or higher nimh AA cell will often out run a non-rechargeable AA in run times, or at least they have for me when I've timed it in various devices, such as a pocket camcorder. Another reason why people feel/felt nimhs or nicads don't offer long run times, is that they will self discharge while sitting on the shelf. Charge it completely and days or weeks later it's pretty well drained again even if not even used.

There are now cheap LSD (low self discharge) nimhs on the market that will hold roughly I think 80% of their charger near a year later. Make sure though that you do your research, as some do not live up to their claims nearly as well as others. If using regular non-LSD nimhs or nicads, be sure to re-peak the pack before a hunt if it's sat for say a week or perhaps two or so. I've got some non-LSD nimhs that will go dead in just a couple of days, while others are good a month or two later maybe, still holding enough charge to run something a good bit.

I haven't kept up on the latest in some lithium based cells, but I suspect there are now 9V cells with partial lithium chemistry that might work very well, and even provide much higher capacities than a nimh can in that size 9V casing, as lithium provides higher capacity, less weight, and in a smaller package. But if you do go that route, be sure the minimum voltage drain allowed of the cell, if it has one, is above where the low battery alarm kicks in on your machine.

I run a 3 cell lipo in my machine, to replace 8AAs, which is roughly the same capacity as the stock nimh pack but not nearly as heavy, and the 3 cell pack is very tiny compared to 8AAs. I wired a small plug into my alkaline holder to plug it into, yet I can still move that tiny plug out of the way and run 8AAs again in there if I ever wanted to for some insane reason. Lipos charge in a hour without stressing the pack, but again there is a minimum drain issue- Lipos should never be drained past 3V per cell, for a total of 9V in series. Luckily my machine sounds it's low battery alarm at around 10V, so I'm good.

The fully charged voltage is 12.6V, so right around what a fresh 8AA series pack of regular batteries would be. Another perk to lipos, like many lithium based cells, is that they have just about zero discharge sitting on the shelf. Charge it full, and months later it's ready to rock and roll, but it's not healthy to store them at full charge, so ones I don't plan to use for long periods I put at a specific sleep voltage and store in a fire proof box in my refrigerator.

There are also LifePo4 cells out now that look interesting. The voltage is higher though than an AA, so though they are AA in shape, you can't cram 8 of them into a holder, so they often come with 4 dummy cells to use with them to cut the voltage in half. But, that voltage might still be a bit too high for some machines to handle, so use caution. The minimum voltage drain of those cells would also have to be looked into to make sure your low battery alarm will sound before hand, or by way of keeping track of hours used and then checking with a volt meter to judge cut off points where you should re-charge.

I may look further into what the latest and greatest in 9V lithium based cells might be out there, just to throw one in my Pro Pointer, although that thing gives me almost a year's run time anyway so I never felt the need to use a rechargeable in it.

Final thought- Consider, if you want to stick with non-rechargeables, perhaps the lithium based Energizers. Not sure if they sell those in a 9V but I would suspect they do. I have used them, giving to me from somebody, in various things and must say the extra cost is worth the extremely longer run time they give. They are also very light. 8 of them in an AA holder is a good bit less weight than 8 regular non-rechargeables, like most lithiums are. Lipos have a soft outer casing, so in terms of the weight factor it don't get much lighter than those. For that reason they are big in RC electric plane applications. Smaller, lighter, and higher capacity than other battery types, and able to deliver some rather high current demands.
 
I am going to just try some energizer lithiums.And invest in some top of the line rechargables.And top of the line charger.Thanks for the great information critter.There is a lot to really know about batteries because the technology is changing so quick.
 
Battery/charger technology in detecting circles seems to lag about 20 years behind, including price. One of my hobbies is building RC electric planes running brushless motors and lipo batteries, as well as using nimh or nicad packs for transmitters and other various projects in the past. In electric RC planes, knowing the particulars of your chargers and batteries can mean the difference between making it back with the plane or losing power at the wrong moment. That's why knowing batteries/chargers is often a passion of guys into RC stuff. I'm just one of those freaks in that respect. :biggrin:

There are some very cheap alternatives these days out there in both batteries and chargers, usually places that cater to the RC crowd, where the latest and greatest in batteries or chargers are dirt cheap if you know where to look.

One of my biggest complaints about the chargers and batteries that come with many detectors are two things- First, the "charger" isn't really a charger, but rather a simply transformer putting out a trickle charging rate. By keeping the current low, they are eliminating the need to supply a true charger that can tell when the pack has peaked and terminate the charge. While this is said to be OK for nicads (feeding them a trickle charge even though they've peaked), I've always heard this was harmful to nimhs and would lesson their life and capacity over time.

Using a ultra slow trickle current also means very long charge times before the pack is fully peaked. Senseless to charge a pack that slow. Beyond what is needed for the health of the pack. Many nimhs/nicads these days can handle 1C charge rates (1 hour charge rates), or even if not that charging at say 1/3rd to 1/2 the C (capacity) of the pack in terms of current being used is not going to be harsh to it. So long as the pack isn't getting hot it's not being pushed. Heat destroys batteries. Luke warm is OK.

The other complaint I have is they often use very low capacicity nimh or nicad cells compared to what is out there these days. Again, about 20+ years behind the times. Typical capacity in stock nimhs might be around 800 to 1500 (if your lucky) MA. These days there are dirt cheap nimhs in the 2600ma or even higher range. About double the run time at least of a stock pack.

No, there simply isn't any reason for wasting money on non-rechargeables in this day and age. Shorter run times with rechargeables? Nope, if you buy the right capacity. Loss of performance or depth of the detector? Again, nope. Cost? Rechargeables/chargers are dirt cheap if you know where to look. Long charge times? Nope again...You can charge a pack in an hour, or say 2 or 3 if you don't want to push things, and even then these are charge times for a completely dead pack and not one still somewhat charged, in which case the charge time will be much lower.

Only thing I'd suggest, is that if buying a charger get one that displays the capacity put back into the pack. This allows you to monitor the health of the pack over time. If the pack starts to show less capacity put in from a completely dead starting point to contrast, then charge and drain the pack (car tail light bulb or something) about 3 to 5 times in a row to exercise it. Some believe only nicads benefit from this, but the truth is even nimhs will give much more capacity if they are exercised say 2 or 3 times a year by 3 to 5 drains/chargers in a row. With a charger that shows capacity put back in you can see the increase in capacity with each re-charge doing that, and then stop when after say 2 chargers in a row you really aren't seeing any more increase.

Also, when shopping for a charger, make sure it does the cell type you are using (nimhs/nicads), and also that it will do up to at least the number of cells you are charging (say 8 for some detectors), and finally that the output current, if you can't change it, is no higher than what the cells recommend (probably about 1/3 on up to 1C max). Many chargers don't come with individual holders for each cell. Easy enough to pick that up at Radio Shack for about $2. Simply get a series holder for say 8 AAs, hook that up to the charger, and the charger will charge all 8 cells at once (if it can do up to 8 cells...read it's specs).
 
I will keep that in mind.How about a rubber band remote control plane?You got to know your stuff on that one.I can't get over how light the lithium's are! I held a pack at the drug store and was shocked!I said to myself this could make the detector so much lighter,with the heavy 8AA batteries.You have a lot of good information on the forum about batteries.I have read some of your past post on batteries and chargers. :-D
 
Radio Shack has batteries that are rated 3 in consumer reports. They're cheap and last a long time. I use them in my F75 and they are good.
 
Energizer Bunny? LOL or who ever makes em Tesoro had been sending new machines with em ,but last time I got a new machine from em it was panasonic in it.But I still like to buy the energizers,they fit a ok in Tesoros etc.
 
I have been using NiMh rechargeables for a few years on my uMax models and they have worked great....even on long days of hunting I have never completely wore them out. I am going to try the lithium ion rechargeables. Better capacity and better shelf charge hold. I use rechargeables on all my detectors and have not had any issues at all with them. Key is having a charger that you can condition and cycle them in...makes all the difference in the world.
 
Yes, a charger that you can set to drain/recharge the cells automatically is nice, and many you can even set the # of cycles on to do it, then review the capacity it keeps track of for each cycle to see if it is still making gains and might benefit from a few more. Only problem though is that many chargers that do this are limited by their wattage, which can lean to some slow drain time downs. As the voltage of the pack drops, the ability to increase the amp drain increases (Volts X Amps = Watts). For that reason, I prefer a faster drain down using a car tail light bulb. Once the bulb goes out (perhaps 20 minutes or so depending on capacity of the pack), I'll leave it sit dead on that for say another 20 minutes to insure equal discharge of all the cells to get them back in balance with each other.

Some say nimhs or nicads should never be drained completely dead due to the risk of a cell reversing polarity, while others feel this is the only way to properly exercise the pack. I fall into the camp that draining them dead is a good thing like draining all the old gas from a tank before putting fresh gas in. I've never had a cell reverse polarity, and anyways as soon as the load is taken off the pack the cells were start springing back up in voltage a bit right away. I always felt the only real risk of reversing polarity was if you let it sit on a load well beyond dead, or in particular if you remove it from the load but let it sit dead for days without a re-charge. Others differ on that though. There are many opinions on proper battery care out there. I only go by what I've read and experienced for myself over the years.

If you do go to lithium based cells, find out what the minimum drain permitted is and find a way to never go past that. Certain types of lithium cells have very different minimum discharge parameters, and if drained past that it could ruin them. I have recovered lipos drained well past 3V per cell (plane stuck in a tree for a few days), but it's a risky thing to do by some accounts. Many lipo chargers won't permit charging a pack with a cell count below 3V per cell. To get around that I'd very gently charge the pack at a very low say 1/10th of am amp (100ma) on a nimh charger for just enough time (minutes usually) to bring the pack back up to the minimum voltage, and then would throw it back onto the lipo charger to do the normal charge.
 
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