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best inland coil for the gt
- Thread starter rufus3898
- Start date
I have a 15 inch WOT coil that hasn't been used in the field yet.I'm impressed how light the larger coil is,but it is bulky.If the depth is even close to the air test this a very deep coil.This isn't much help at this point,but I'm looking forward to use this coil at non productive sites this spring.Good Luck Ron
jamesinwesttexas
New member
What about the SEF?
James
James
Nauti
Well-known member
I've used the wot coil and here is what i found;
1.No depth advantage over the stock coil
2.Less sensitive to low conductivity items
3.Any amount of trash will render it virtually unusable.
4.Excellent ground coverage.
The best use i found for this coil was for searching the beach....found me a lot of stuff.The only after market coil i ever thought had advantages over a stock coil was the coiltek platypus.This coil was better balanced than the stock coil due to the shaft fixing point being in the centre of the coil.It also pinpointed much better than the stock coil.As for the claimed better sensitivity and depth.....i did not really see any difference to the stock coil.I think i will stick to minelab coils from now on.....i think they now how to make coils for their own machines better than anyone else.
1.No depth advantage over the stock coil
2.Less sensitive to low conductivity items
3.Any amount of trash will render it virtually unusable.
4.Excellent ground coverage.
The best use i found for this coil was for searching the beach....found me a lot of stuff.The only after market coil i ever thought had advantages over a stock coil was the coiltek platypus.This coil was better balanced than the stock coil due to the shaft fixing point being in the centre of the coil.It also pinpointed much better than the stock coil.As for the claimed better sensitivity and depth.....i did not really see any difference to the stock coil.I think i will stick to minelab coils from now on.....i think they now how to make coils for their own machines better than anyone else.
If you have the GT you should have the 10 inch Tornado coil that should have come with it unless you got it used. This coil is a great coil and as you see on the classified no one is selling them as they are good. Another coil that i feel is great is the S-12 of SunRays and it too is very hard to find used as those that have them are keeping them. The coil you have the S-8 too is one of my favorite all time coils as it has done wonders on coins in with trash and some great depth.I have tried many differnt coil on the Sovereign and the S-5 for super bad trash, the S-8 for trashy area, the stock 10 inch Tornado coil for my normal hunting or a S-12 are the ones that for me do the best.
Critterhunter
New member
You're the only person I've ever read state that the WOT didn't get better depth than the stock coil. I've read I believe 14 or 15" on a silver dime where as most state the stock 10" coil will go about 10 or 11" on a silver dime. I've heard the WOT is very good at finding coins in iron and also at coins on edge. I'm not sure if this is due to the coil or just the Sovereign, because I've seen my 10" coil hit perfectly on coins that were on edge, and my air tests show iron mask to really do well at pulling a clean coin signal out of a target masked by a nail.
The only reason why I personaly wouldn't consider the WOT is due to it's weight. I still might get one for hunting at some really deep coin sites that are fairly clean, but I suspect that I'd be better off with the S-12. It's lighter than the 10" Tornado and some say it's depth is fairly close to the WOT, but most agree it's got slightly less depth than it. On the other hand, I'm seriously considering the Shaun Amp as some claim it'll get as good of depth with the 10" coil as the WOT gets without it. Not only would this be less bulky, but perhaps (?) the trash seperation would still be better than the S-12 or WOT while still getting as much depth? I really don't know, since it increases the voltage to the TX coil winding and one would think the resulting stronger/deeper signal would also be much wider? It seems to be that amp might also offer the same advantage for say the 8" Coinsearch coil...depth aproaching the 10" coil but with better trash seperation. I'd be real interested to hear what it does with the S-5. Some tests to see if it gets deeper yet doesn't effect seperation would be real interesting.
Which brings me to my next question. I'm still wondering about smaller coils for the Sovereign. Everybody seems to love the S-5 for working bad trash but it's my understanding that this is still a double D design. Concentrics should seperate targets better by virtue of the fact that the signal is more "V" shaped where as double D's are more "U" shaped. I think I heard that Kellyco used to sell some small concentric coils for the Sovereigns? If so, somebody list the size and any performance reports they can give to the S-5. Also, is the S-5 the smallest coil out there or do they make something even smaller? I'd like to see a 3.5 to 4" coil, preferably a concentric, to really sniper out the coins with it. I have several old parks where the amount of trash is simply overwhelming, yet the ground is fairly hard clay so there should be a lot of old coins no more than 4 or 5" deep that are masked by the extensive trash.
The only reason why I personaly wouldn't consider the WOT is due to it's weight. I still might get one for hunting at some really deep coin sites that are fairly clean, but I suspect that I'd be better off with the S-12. It's lighter than the 10" Tornado and some say it's depth is fairly close to the WOT, but most agree it's got slightly less depth than it. On the other hand, I'm seriously considering the Shaun Amp as some claim it'll get as good of depth with the 10" coil as the WOT gets without it. Not only would this be less bulky, but perhaps (?) the trash seperation would still be better than the S-12 or WOT while still getting as much depth? I really don't know, since it increases the voltage to the TX coil winding and one would think the resulting stronger/deeper signal would also be much wider? It seems to be that amp might also offer the same advantage for say the 8" Coinsearch coil...depth aproaching the 10" coil but with better trash seperation. I'd be real interested to hear what it does with the S-5. Some tests to see if it gets deeper yet doesn't effect seperation would be real interesting.
Which brings me to my next question. I'm still wondering about smaller coils for the Sovereign. Everybody seems to love the S-5 for working bad trash but it's my understanding that this is still a double D design. Concentrics should seperate targets better by virtue of the fact that the signal is more "V" shaped where as double D's are more "U" shaped. I think I heard that Kellyco used to sell some small concentric coils for the Sovereigns? If so, somebody list the size and any performance reports they can give to the S-5. Also, is the S-5 the smallest coil out there or do they make something even smaller? I'd like to see a 3.5 to 4" coil, preferably a concentric, to really sniper out the coins with it. I have several old parks where the amount of trash is simply overwhelming, yet the ground is fairly hard clay so there should be a lot of old coins no more than 4 or 5" deep that are masked by the extensive trash.
The V shape on a concentric is a 3D cone whereas the U on a DD is only along the centre line(or as near as) and hence the better separation with the DD. If you looked at it from the birds eye view you would see the circle(base of the cone) or a straight line on the DD down the centre bridge, its not quite as straight forward as that but more or less for explanation purposes.
So with a DD coil you can edge up closer to trash from the side and still pick up something that is close.
This also has an effect that the DD's are affected less my mineralization probably because the actual overall footprint is smaller.
Only in a case that if all trash and good stuff was at the same extreme depth could the concentric be better at separation as you would only be detecting with the point of the cone, this cone point also gives slightly greater depth than the DD
BTW. Thanks for the charger/battery info. recovered an old Excalibur nicad with a dodgy cell
and am now in the process of rejuvenating my old XS2aPro nicads
Any one know the mah of the old xs2apro nicad batteries, i think i remember something in the range of 600mah but am not sure <-- found it in the manual duh 1000mah
So with a DD coil you can edge up closer to trash from the side and still pick up something that is close.
This also has an effect that the DD's are affected less my mineralization probably because the actual overall footprint is smaller.
Only in a case that if all trash and good stuff was at the same extreme depth could the concentric be better at separation as you would only be detecting with the point of the cone, this cone point also gives slightly greater depth than the DD
BTW. Thanks for the charger/battery info. recovered an old Excalibur nicad with a dodgy cell
and am now in the process of rejuvenating my old XS2aPro nicadsAny one know the mah of the old xs2apro nicad batteries, i think i remember something in the range of 600mah but am not sure <-- found it in the manual duh 1000mah
Nauti
Well-known member
Hi critterhunter,just thought i'd respond to your points.Firstly,please don't buy the wot coil if you intend to detect amongst the iron...you will be extremely disappointed.This coil,due to it's size is totally unsuitable for use in amongst iron.I don't know where you heard that it will pull coins from amongst the iron but i would say that somebody has given out innacurate information.Regarding depth,i bought the wot coil on the strength of a lot of information that i had read on forums and i found that most of the information was wildely exaggerated.I used a wot on both the sovereign and a quattro and i found no significant depth increase on either machine.I know a lot of other detectorists that have bought this coil or coils of similar size because they thought they were going to open up worked out sites and they have had similar results.I'm not trying to put you off buying one but i would take a lot of what you read on forums with a bit of caution.As i said earlier i found a use for mine and that was searching the wet sand area on the beaches where there was little trash.I found the coil to be good here due to the excellent ground coverage it provided.One last point,if these huge coils are so good why have minelab themselves not developed one for there range of detectors?I think most manufacturers have found that coils in the 8-10inch range provide optimum performance for most applications and are not really interested in spending thousands on developing coils that have very limited applications.Before you buy one why not e-mail coiltek and ask them to guarantee you that their wot will detect a silver dime 4 inches deeper than minelabs 10 inch before you buy one?Now that would be interesting.
For woods hunting and/or trashy sites I like the S-8. For more open areas or beaches I like the stock 10 inch. If you get into a trashy area while using the 10 inch just slow down and overlap your sweep by about 50% like you normally would with a concentric coil. This way your basically using the front 5 inches of the 10 inch coil per sweep.
Nauti Neil said:
You forgot to mention that they don't make a smaller coil either ie 5" are these a waste of time too
Try telling Coiltek, Detech and Sunray that its not worth the hastle and expense to make larger and different size coils than the 8 - 10, also if i remember correctly detech used to make the minelab coils for minelab probably for others too(weather they still do i don't know) Most detectorists have more than 1 coil per detector that means a big market worldwide
thanks for the input. from what i see here i'll be sticking it outt with the s-8. i only had about 3 months of use with the gt so i still have a lot to learn but i have seen the potential. i have dug coins at 7 inches so i'm sure with more practice i'll get a little deeper. thanks all hh
Nauti
Well-known member
Hi kered,did i say they were a waste of time anywhere in my post?I even said that i had found a good use for mine on the beach.What i said was that huge coils have limited applications and that sometimes they are over-hyped......this is from experience using these coils...not from what others say on forums.I'm not trying to put people off buying any coil they want,i'm just saying that a lot of these coils do not bring as much benefit as the manufacturers would lead us to believe.
Neil
Well-known member
rufus3898 said:
the s8 is a great coil, good coverage and depth. you might look into a 8" coinsearch because of its closed design it will not snag like the open coils do. another one to consider is the 10" joey coil. when your in brush where small stuff is coming up from the ground, scrubbing the ground with an open coil can be very frustrating you end up lifting the coil a whole lot more. unless you have some really difficult soil, if you swing the coil slowly you should be able to get coins down to 10" with either of these coils, which is pretty good depth.
Critterhunter,
Just a thought for you as winter settles in on most of us and you may find yourself looking for an experiment to try.
I stumbled onto a guys website a few months ago ( waynesthisandthat .com forwardslash coils.html ) that had been doing some testing with a newly purchased Garrett GTI 2500 detector and some accessory coils to determine the sensitivity and actual 'shape' of their electromagetic fields. His testing showed that the EM field wasn't shaped like he thought it would be.
Not suggesting that this guys testing is gospel truth, but it does give me a desire to try it myself and see how the concentric and DD coils actually perform.
Rich (Utah)
Just a thought for you as winter settles in on most of us and you may find yourself looking for an experiment to try.
I stumbled onto a guys website a few months ago ( waynesthisandthat .com forwardslash coils.html ) that had been doing some testing with a newly purchased Garrett GTI 2500 detector and some accessory coils to determine the sensitivity and actual 'shape' of their electromagetic fields. His testing showed that the EM field wasn't shaped like he thought it would be.
Not suggesting that this guys testing is gospel truth, but it does give me a desire to try it myself and see how the concentric and DD coils actually perform.
Rich (Utah)
Critterhunter
New member
kered said:The V shape on a concentric is a 3D cone whereas the U on a DD is only along the centre line(or as near as) and hence the better separation with the DD. If you looked at it from the birds eye view you would see the circle(base of the cone) or a straight line on the DD down the centre bridge, its not quite as straight forward as that but more or less for explanation purposes.
So with a DD coil you can edge up closer to trash from the side and still pick up something that is close.
This also has an effect that the DD's are affected less my mineralization probably because the actual overall footprint is smaller.
Only in a case that if all trash and good stuff was at the same extreme depth could the concentric be better at separation as you would only be detecting with the point of the cone, this cone point also gives slightly greater depth than the DD
BTW. Thanks for the charger/battery info. recovered an old Excalibur nicad with a dodgy cell
Any one know the mah of the old xs2apro nicad batteries, i think i remember something in the range of 600mah but am not sure <-- found it in the manual duh 1000mah
Kared, I understand the differences. I've even been researching coil types to make a few of my own. The way I understand it double D designs handle ground minerals better because of the way the TX/RX coils are positioned in relation to each other, and not because of how much ground they are seeing. Concentrics have a TX, RX, and bucking coil configuration placed one circle inside the other, while DD's have the TX/RX coils placed in a mirror image next to each other. Most of the problems concentrics have with becoming unstable are due to the bucking coil getting out of tune/position. That's why a coil will false if you knock it hard enough. Even something as slight as temperture changes can cause coil windings to move and produce unstable operation. Interestingly enough, I believe this might have been the problem with the Hot Shot coils I tried on the QXT. They would work fine for about ten minutes and then get eratic. I believe as they warmed up in the sun the coils would move out of alignment slightly.
Anyway, a concentric's cone is more able to seperate targets. One of the reasons why they pinpoint so much better. Yes, the cone is a nice big circle near the coil but that's easy to compensate for. You can lower the sensitivity or raise the coil to provide better seperation on shallow targets. I'm not knocking double D designs. They do cover ground better without as much of a need to overlap sweeps, and they do handle mineralized ground better as well, but I personaly don't believe the same size coil will go as deep as a concentric's cone tip or seperate targets as well. If I wanted to get as deep as possible I'd want a large concentric coil for maximum depth and ease of pinpointing, or a tiny little one for target seperation on shallow targets. Those two types are what I intend to build myself if I can't locate a source.
At the moment I am in the market for an S-5, S-12, or perhaps a WOT coil. If anybody has one for sale used shoot me a PM. I had been considering Shaun's amp but I don't like the idea of strapping the extra cables and weight on the shaft. This is the same reason why I refuse to use an S-1 probe. I'd much rather carry one in my pocket. By the way, the best pinpointer I've ever used is a friend's that Garrett makes. I always tell him it's the best metal detector Garrett ever made, or will ever make.
Critterhunter
New member
Rich (Utah) said:
I'll check into that. I ran some tests on a GTI years ago when they first came out. The depth was decent but only at a very tiny spot dead center of the coil. Move off even a hair and the signal would completely disappear. Not even a "junk" signal. It had the tightest "sweet spot" of any detector I ever used. Turned me off to buying one.
Critterhunter
New member
Nauti Neil said:
There are a few unofficial reviews of the WOT floating around on the web which have been out there since they released it. In these and other messages I've found over the years many people state that this coil does very well at pulling coins that are mixed in with iron. I'm sure seperation is bad with this large of a coil, but there are too many reports of popping coins mixed with iron using this coil to discount it. Same with coins on edge. As far as depth goes, if the conditions are right (like say not overly mineralized ground) many report getting some outstanding depth on coins with it, several inches deeper than the 10" is capable of. I've also read good things on the depth of the S-12, though some say it doesn't get quite as deep as the WOT, while others say they saw no depth difference between the two. The S-12 can seperate targets a little better and is said to be lighter than even the 10" Tornado.
Really I'm still at a toss up as to which of these two I'd like best. I know some really clean spots with very deep coins that I'd love to work over with the WOT, but then again I think it would be a special purpose coil that I can only use for a few hours at a time at very specific (clean/deep) locations. The S-12, on the other hand, is being used as the "always on" coil by many Sovereign owners. It's weight and better seperation makes that possible. So long as it goes deeper than the 10" I'll want one. I am not interested in coverage. My main focus is maximum depth. For the reverse reason I want a small coil...to seperate shallow coins/trash. I think it'll have to be the S-5 but I'm still interested in a smaller coil or a concentric if they even exist.