Busted detecting curb strips

[sparkster]

Was in my home town for a few days and decided to detect some curb strips. I have done this many many times. As luck would have it someone must have complained. The local police show up and ask me what I'm doing. So I tell him. No, no you cannot do that. The curb strip belongs to the homeowner. Now, I did not argue the point, but can someone lead me to the easiest way to find out who really owns that curb strips. I know most cities own the curb strips, but where do I find it in the City Ordinances, or municipal codes. I' going down to city hall tomorrow to try and find out. I just want to be forarmed.

Thanks

 

[metalfun]

I DONT KNOW IF THIS WILL HELP BUT I WAS ASKED TO LEAVE OUR LOCAL PARK ONCE SO I WENT TO THE TOWN HALL AND ASK IF THEY HAD AN ORDINANCE AGAINST METAL DETECTING.I FOUND OUT THEY DIDNT AND HAVE BEEN HUNTING THERE EVER SINCE.THE MAYOR TOLD ME IT WS OK'I WAS HOWEVER VERY NICE AND NOT PUSHY.THEY CAN TELL YOU WHO OWNS THE CURB STRIPS.HOPE THIS WAS HELPFUL.HH

 

[MarkCZ]

Who owns and maintains the sidewalks?
Is there any water mains (or covers) in the strips?
When the curbs get redone who does that?
Can the home owners mark the curb strips Privet property, or only put the posted signs in their lawn area?
Can the city come along at any time and have excess to digging up the curbs in front of the homeowners house without getting permission?
Can the homeowner keep my child from riding his trike on the sidewalk section in front of their house?

Case Closed!

Mark

 

[oneguy]

curb strips are usually a "grey area" and most property owners own right up to the street...BUT, the City has "right of way" for the public and also utilities, etc. usally property owners are required to maintain any lawn + snow removal, etc.

I would advise you NOT to even bring it up down at City Hall. Out of sight/out of mind. Just move on to another section of town OR ask the home owner if he minds if you hunt that little patch out by the road and you'll not leave a mess, etc.

It's just too easy for the City to end any and all problems by simply creating a new ordinance against MD'ing curb strips rather than fighting with property owners.....

Leave it alone and move on. A "grey area" is way better than a NO area..........jmo

 

[jackintexas]

The home owners maintain the curb strips by mowing and edging. If they were not to maintain the strips, the city would not....Jack

 

[marcomo]

sparkster, I always say being smart trumps being right. And this is a perfect example.

Yes, in many if not most towns the sidewalk strips are city property although it is the homeowners responsibility to maintain the area.

So technically, if the town does not have an ordinance against metal detecting, then you are right. You are not breaking the law.

But homeowners tend to look at something they maintain as their property, especially when it's right in front of their house. And a good percentage of them do not even know that it isn't.

And a good percentage of them who see a stranger detecting that strip in front of their house will be thinking what the h@!# does this guy think he's doing on my property?

Citizens getting upset and police wasting time dealing with an issue that wouldn't be an issue if you weren't there. That's the way you're likely to be viewed at city hall.

As oneguy said above, if you press the issue you can bet that you will lose. It is very easy to pass an ordinance.

 

[farmerboy856]

i look at it this way, i own a farm and have a fair amount of acreage and several times a year i always end up dealing with trespassers. what makes me mad is if they would have just asked i would have told them its fine to hunt trap walk shed hunt snow mobile you name it, but don't ask and your darn right your gonna be thrown off. end of story. now before you jump me lets change it a bit lets say its our curb strip in town we don't have much yard to stake our claim to and yes in most cases the city does have rite a ways or even ownership of 'the strip'. But i mow it water it an in most cases i paid for the side walk and curb thats 'public property' and you better believe i pay taxes on the full lot. at least i know i pay taxes to center of road way and that includes a 33 foot rite of way from center line. If i seen someone on my strip without asking they would get the boot and i wouldn't ask twice if they argued i would turn them in period. if they asked me even with my being a t hunter i would say sure as i would on my farm only rule is i get to go too I also agree don't run to the city hall and mess things up, two towns over from me we have zero public land to hunt in city limits because of cases like this. All it takes is a simple knock on the door and a, if your curious i have an extra machine come with me check it out if you want. if they say no move on theres nothing there worth giving all of us in this hobby a black eye. i rarely get a no for any property i request permission to hunt i always offer a spare machine to the owner or their kids if they wanna come with and 9 outta 10 times the no's are for one of two reasons someone else was there first with or without permission and made a bad impression or the owner has or wants a machine to hunt it themselves. i'm not talking parks, county, town, state you name it. i want nothing to do with them to many nosy people around and here half are closed to hunting anyways just saying i'm only talking strictly side walk strips. Just ask the land - home owner you would be surprised at the response a clean outfit a smile my name is_ a please thank you and hand shake will get you. Plus it's tons more fun hunting with out watching over your back. people need to shed their sense of entitlement i feel that t hunting is a privilege that with a little common sense and respect will be a hobby we can all enjoy for generations to come. Member these are just my thoughts and opinions wether we agree or not gl and hh!

 

[farmerboy856]

Also sparkster please don't think I'm coming down on you and I'm lumping you into the trouble maker group whos giving the hobby a bad name you did the right thing not arguing until you had the facts too back you up. And id also like to note I see your and others points. Its just easier to get the ok from the home owners in my honest opinion. It's sad our hobby has come to this where a few bad ones have made it hard for the rest of us to enjoy our hobby on many what should be no brainer 'public' sites.

 

[MikeO]

If you approach the city you may just set the wheel in motion that sets forth a ordinance prohibiting it.
Thats generally how it happens then everyone loses and asking permission is then a mute cause imho.
On a side note you did the right thing by not pushing the issue and moving on once approached by the LEO.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

You weren't "busted" (as in "ticketed" or "fined" or "arrested", etc....). Perhaps a better term is "booted" eh ? MikeO and one-guy have good answers so far IMHO. And even you yourself acknowledge that the ONLY reason the cops showed up, is evidently someone called to complain . Thus a cop (who might otherwise have cared less, and never have paid you a second glance), comes out in response to a call. So put yourself in his shoes: he's come all the way, to "satisfy miss lookie-lou", and has to justify the call-out. So to me, this isn't a cop issue (or laws, or rules) it's a simple issue of a singular irate homeowner.

So if I was you, I'd just give lip service. Give it a rest for 6 months , and just do the same things you've always done with no problem: detect parking strips there. Just not in front of that one house.

A friend of mine was doing parking strips once, and had a homeowner come out and threaten to call the cops. My friend wouldn't budge, and kept detecting. So the cops were called. When they showed up, my friend explained to the cops about the public eavesment. However, they asked him that .... in order to keep this one hot-head at bay, could he please move to the next block over. So sometimes in this life, it's not really a matter of laws and rules, but more a matter of lip service and keeping the peace.

 

[HaloEffect426]

[size=medium]I would like to throw in a thought here and to make what I believe spoken very easily here.... go back a few posts and read what oneguy suggests.....what he has written...is EXACTLY how I approach that lil stip of treasure..and with a GOOD outcome of oneguys tactic..I have been happily invited to many, many landowners Entire property!!

although,

VERY good TH'ers manners (to me) are very important.while hunting here and my self... at any given time I get that...VIBE? like another family member pulls up n give you that..uncomfortable "look" for more than a few minutes after them going from their car .......staring you down .....and going into their home and talking w/ family that YOU spoke too .and I'm pretty sure just about EVERYONE that reads this or this forum knows THAT feeling??? right??..I politely thank them for the oppurtunity show them everything I found...if I get that far..with the owners and it feels comfortable nuff... offer a 50/50 split of ALL finds.. n move on to better treasure elsewhere..That's just me....

Signed,

HaloEffect426[/size]

 

[MarkCZ]

When I used to hunt the curbs we started out in the morning, but it was to much hassle from the public, in those days I just developed some good night hunting skills, these days its probably not safe enough to night hunt.
Yes, the people do mow, some even plant little flowers, and shovel snow in the curb areas. Around here it got to be such a problem with people that we just quick hunting them altogether. In the early 80's much of the silver was 5" to 6" and they were hit pretty hard then. Curbs has a lot of soil growth in our area so by now what's left of the good stuff is just to little and to deep to try and retrieve it. The many of the curbs that we hunted back them were CITY (down town) areas that were lined with parking meters! or once was lined with them, these were perfect spots to hunt for silver coins. Now, most of all these curbs have been replaced by concrete.

Mark

 

[WV62]

Let somebody fall and get hurt on that side walk or curb area and the home will no longer think it is his. If you need to sue somebody you need to take it up with the city.

Just call the city maintenance department, just about anybody that picks up the phone in that department should know. Keep you contact as low key as possible.

Ron in Wv

 

[Elton]

Some cities are transferring the curb lawn back to the home owners.

Why ?? As the substructures become old..Sewer pipes attached to your sewers ..they need replaced... If the city no longer owns the property and you do.. Guess who pays for replacements from sidewalk to street curb. I just went through that with my City.. Guess what ?. I own the curb lawn now... 5 years ago the city owned it..

Surprise "YOU DO " in some cities......... Best if you checked it out ......


Public utilities have easement rights to go through Over/under your property for the good of all..


Ok the above stated .Here is my take on detecting someone's City/Home owner curb strips...

If the adjoining home maintains that land and is required to do so by ordinance then that person is the controller of that land.. If they don't want you on it ..STAY OFF !! Just good common sense ..not to mention courtesy...

 

[sparkster]

I have researched the city ordinances concerning public access in this city. I went to the city planner and asked the question, "what is the city ordinance concerning curb strips, is it public access or private prosperity". To determine this you must measure the width of the roadway from curb to curb. Divide that distance by 2 to determine the center of the road. Next you need to acquire a plat map for the location (obtained from the City Planner). Measure a distance from the center of the road to either side using the dImensions from the plat map. In my case the dimension is 40 feet. That puts the public access about 10 feet past the curb strip and sidewalk into the homeowners front yard. This is how you determine public access.

Do with it how you see fit.

 

[BillF]

I ran into a guy one day that said he hunts curb strips all the time. If he gets has sealed he hands them a card that shows that curb strips are public property.
I don't have the balls for that and would never do it.
Also, as far as ownership goes, my city is doing as Elton said. They want to revert ownership from the water main to the homeowners curbstop( water valve ) to make them pay for repairs up to the main instead of just from the valve to the house.
It looks like the wave of the future.

 

[mudpuppy]

Yeah...even though you were legally in the "right" you cant argue with a guy with a gun and a badge, and of course you never argue with a woman!

I do find it somewhat stimulating to get bounced at least once per year...it helps me develop my invisibleness so when I need it, it is finely honed..all about timing, weather, speed....when a guy gets bounced, he was just pushing the envelope a little too far, but how are we supposed to learn otherwise? one thing about developing invisibleness...its better to get bounced by the Man than robbed by the bros..detecting teaches us some important skills in this regards...

It sure cuts down the hunting window though...just a few short hours in the mornings, or on really bad weather days is about the only time a guy can hunt certain areas successfully and safely....

To date, off of memory, I got bounced by a beachcop in the the middle of the night, a priest at a closed and abandoned parish playground, and the dang 16yr old kid that runs the snow-cat on the local sledding hill at 5am...as if digging a hole in the snow is some sort of irreperable violation? Still hunting all three by the way...Anyway, its sort of part of our game and really fun to read when it happens to somebody! I always like it when Tom_in_Ca pipes up on these issues...good advice there...
Mud

 

[oneguy]

Measure a distance from the center of the road to either side using the dImensions from the plat map. In my case the dimension is 40 feet. That puts the public access about 10 feet past the curb strip and sidewalk into the homeowners front yard. This is how you determine public access.

That is how you determine "right of way" and not ownership/public access and that leads us right back to that "grey area". That "grey area" has been argued over and about for ever and always will be and every town, city, cop, home owner, utility, municipality, etc. will have a different interpretation of the "grey area"......

best to leave it lay and ask permission or move on and don't stir the bucket.....imo

If you really want to hunt that....just put on a flouresant vest and white hard hat and look important and I doubt anyone would say anything thinking you are a city worker. if they ask...say something stupid like "nothing to do in the shop today so they sent me out here FOR A FEW DAYS (gotta try and milk it) to try and find a set of keys one of the guys lost awhile back".

 

[Goldstrike]

I will try to keep this post short and I apologise if I get long winded!!
I own rental property in my hometown and out of state. The property I have here had a sewer back up. 1 home was built in 1907 so the sewer pipes are aged. I had to get 2 different plumbers to inspect and snake the lines. I asked the last company to send a camera down and I also had 2 City Public Works staff members to witness/determine and verify that it was a City owned tree intrusion into the sewer line and to pinpoint exactly where the intrusion was. The intrusion (roots) was 2 feet away from the curb (my property side) so that put it in the 'strip' that we are talking about. I was fully prepared that the City would pay for the repairs. Stupid me!!!!
Bottom line, I am responsible for all costs. The plumbers costs/the cost of repairs to the sewer line, replacement and labor etc; which will all amount to several thousand dollars. If the problem was in the street, it would be the City that would pay for the repairs.
I was annoyed (putting it very mildly) that it was a City owned tree that was the problem.....I cannot cut it down/stump grind or even trim it back etc; It is totally up to the City to determine if they want to remove the tree and also this incident doesn't mean it will be removed.
I cannot speak for other City ordinances but the curb strips here are owned by the City but the property owner is fully responsible for all damages that occur in the strip. Slips and falls etc;.
The reason I'm sharing this is.....IF....I did not have a passion for metal detecting, I'd maybe get concerned seeing some guy digging around property that I am responsible for and if he or she gets injured, they can sue me.
It's a personal choice to detect those curb strips but I personally err on the side of NOT detecting that piece of property. It's a fine line of getting some property owners really pi@#*@$-ed off. There are many other places for me to detect away from potentially upsetting people. Besides, it would not be enjoyable for me to be looking over my shoulder at people behind the drapes perhaps calling the cops on me even though I have the 'right' to detect. Thanks for bringing this topic up!!!

 

[sparkster]

All of your responses are appreciated. At the end of the day, right is right and wrong is wrong. The Policeman flat lied to me about there bringing an easement. He just tried to verbally bully an old man into getting him to do what he wanted him to do. There is no such thing as an easement for public access concerning a road, curb strip and sidewalk. The entire city is under the same plat plans. All of that ground from the center of the street is public property. That means anyone can access it. It's just like being in the park. That is also public access.

I must explain, I was born and raised in this town. My parents were prominent in City Government here. My entire family for the last 100 years is buried in the local cemetery I own property here. I'm on the board of directors for the historical society and museum in this town. I graduated from high school with the police officers mother and father in this little town. It is not in my nature to allow a person of authority to willfully lie to me and just chalk it up to oh well. Everyone has to realize that if I go detect curb strips here again, he will try the same crap. It's not going to fly. Two of the City Councilmen said I should take it to the city council meeting. I plan on taking it to the chief of police and the city manager.

I' m a legal consultant, so I believe I can present my point in a non threatening manner. I have spent the whole day gathering the proper documentation from city hall to make my presentation.