Choices, choices

[Old Virginia]

Time for a new tool. I'm having difficulty deciding between the Makro Racer 2, the Nokta Impact (concerned about the weight) and the new Garrett AT Max. I own 2 AT Pros and love them. I also own a Nokta Fors Relic but not all that impressed (yet), but I've only had it out 4 times. Leaning toward the Makro, but could change my mind by tomorrow.

Thoughts?

 

[Dave_E]

I love my Racer 2.
The tone breaks, and the tones themselves, are fully customizable.

The iron audio is also adjustable to 10 levels, not simply off/on.

If money is not a consideration though, I'd get them Impact. From what I've read it can do everything that the other Nokta/Makro units can do, plus more.

If you already own the Relic, have you considered just adding an FBS unit to your mix?
That's where I currently am. I'll never give up my Racer 2 but adding a Minelab FBS machine may be in my future.

 

[Old Virginia]

Hi Dave. Thanks for the info.

"If you already own the Relic, have you considered just adding an FBS unit to your mix?"

What does that mean?

 

[Tom Slick]

He's trying to get you to drink the Minelab CoolAid.
Between the Racer 2 and the Impact, it really depends on your needs. I have both and plan on keeping both. If you're mostly hunting in iron infested sites like ghost towns, railroad sidings, and old home sites the Racer 2 with do the trick and it's lighter weight than the Impact. If you spend most of your time hunting parks and schools then I'd go for the Impact. I feel the Impact is a better "all around" detector but the Racer 2 is lighter and performs as well (or close to) in the Trashy iron sites.

 

[Dave_E]

No kool aid here Tom, I've never owned a Minelab.
You need to stop drinking the Hater-ade though.

OV,
FBS machines are different than the single frequency machines.
They use multiple, simultaneous, frequencies to better ID targets.
They're typically heavier units that require slower swing speeds.
Minelab makes a handful that may pair nicely with your Relic. An Etrac, Explorer, Safari, CTX 3030 maybe.
They vary in price and I'm not if some models are no longer repaired by Minelab.

Some of the Minelab kool aid guys may give more details. LOL.

 

[Tom Slick]

Not a Hater here. I own one and have for years.

 

[Old Virginia]

Thanks Tom. I rarely hunt parks or schools. I do hunt old home sites, farm fields and colonial and Civil War sites. I do like the multiple frequency option of the Impact, but I'm concerned about the weight. Bad elbow. I also like "performance + simplicity" and it appears the Impact is a bit more complicated to use. Sounds like the Racer 2 may be the best choice for me. Have you ever used an AT Pro?

 

[Old Virginia]

Thanks Dave. Yes, I like Minelab's multiple frequency options and their reputation. But there's no way I can deal with the weight. Bad elbow. I used to have a White's MXT Pro and LOVED it, but had to sell it due to the weight. I couldn't swing more than an hour. I can swing the AT Pro, Deus all day.

 

[Tom Slick]

Yes, I have had the AT Pro. There are many folks that love the AT but I wasn't impressed with many of it's features and I'll leave it at that. I bought the Racer when first released and like it so well I bought a second as a backup and loaner. Along came the Racer 2 offering many features that would make it a better coin hunter without sacrificing it's ability to hunt in the iron infestations so the Racer 2 became a must have for me. I also had a second Racer 2 but I sold the second one to get the Impact. I'm enjoying the Impact's adjustability and features but I'm keeping a Racer 2.
I did the same thing with the Fisher Gold Bug Pro and then the F19 but the Racers are another step up IMHO.

 

[Old Virginia]

Thanks again Tom. BTW, do you find yourself using all the different frequencies offered on the Impact very often or do you tend to stick with one frequency?

 

[TabWhisperer]

You may want to explore your threshold of pain with regards to weight if that is a primary factor. The Impact is listed around 4lbs and the Racer 2 about 3 lbs. The MXT is listed at 4.2 lbs. Naturally there is some variable with coil choices. I think the whole weight and machine balance subject is really something each individual has to decide for themselves. Which unfortunately usually means buying and trying it.

Thanks Dave. Yes, I like Minelab's multiple frequency options and their reputation. But there's no way I can deal with the weight. Bad elbow. I used to have a White's MXT Pro and LOVED it, but had to sell it due to the weight. I couldn't swing more than an hour. I can swing the AT Pro, Deus all day.

 

[Tom Slick]

I set up my Impact with different frequencies for different modes or programs depending on what I want to use that particular program for. I don't find myself jumping around between frequencies while I'm out hunting. Personally, I'll probably seldom use the 5 kHz frequency but time will tell. For the type of hunting you usually do, I think the Racer 2 would be a great choice.

 

[wpaxt]

Old VA.

I have been using a Racer 2 for the past several months and was much more impressed with it than I thought I would be for one main reason: the single menu display. Don't get me wrong, the Racer 2 is very nice VLF detector. But there are a lot of nice VLF machines on the market and in my view that technology is pretty maxed out in terms of performance. What Makro did is rather ingenious in that they made the user interface so easily accessible that it can enhance the performance of the detector. Every setting to adjust or monitor the Racer 2 can be viewed and accessed on one single screen. It was a wonderful change after so many years of stumbling through non-intuitive menus and multiple switches/buttons. Being able to make instant adjustments and change modes on the fly while I was hunting was an advantage I haven't enjoyed in a metal detector before. I found that it resulted in my being able to react to changing environments instantly and enhanced my good finds totals when the day was done.

The detector itself is lightweight with good depth and target separation. When you add the single menu display to that mix you get a detector that I wouldn't hesitate to recommend. I can't comment on the Garrett or the Impact since I have never operated either machine.

Bill (S. CA)

 

[Monte]

And a 'Trade-Off' can be slightly in our favor or work against us. There is no such thing as a 'perfect' metal detector, so I have long felt it was important to own a 'set' or 'team' of detectors that would complement each other since they had their own strengths. Often times there will be a detector that can do some things for us, but not really too much different from what we already own and use, thus we don't really need it. However, if it also has features, functions or performance that is to our advantage, then we might want to consider adding it to our detector battery or 'team.'

Time for a new tool.

If so, what is it you are looking for in a new-to-you detector? What physical design or features, and for what type of hunting environment?

I'm having difficulty deciding between the Makro Racer 2, the Nokta Impact (concerned about the weight) and the new Garrett AT Max. I own 2 AT Pros and love them.

Let's start with your current detector set-up. You say you have two AT Pro units so I would guess you have coil assignments like I do, keeping different coils on my two Nokta FORS CoRe models, two FORS Relic units, and each of my two Impacts also have their own coil assignment. I had an AT Pro for a while after they came out, and I have borrowed an AT Gold on a couple of occasions to give it a bit of field time against the detectors I keep and carry in my Regular-Use Detector Team.

For me and the types of detecting I do, mainly Relic Hunting older sites that have very moderate to extremely dense iron target contamination, they could usually work reasonably well with the right size coil mounted, but I personally didn't care for the top-heavy weight and balance for prolonged searches, the smaller-size numeric display, lack of an All Metal mode on the AT Pro, and the headphone and coil connector locations are annoying for me. And, while they worked reasonably well, I still had better field performance from my three Nokta models and Makro Racer 2.

The only advantage I could see in the AT Pro was the fact it is waterproof, and while I will add a waterproof detector to my arsenal this year, I favored the performance of what I had/have over what the Pro and Gold could do for me. The AT MAX is an interesting blend of those models, but it isn't out yet for me to evaluate, and it would still have to have some improved performance and/or features to best my CoRe, Relic, Impact or Racer 2.

As for weight, I am always alert for weight and balance and their effect on my bad back, neck and shoulder. My Racer 2 is quite a performer for me in all of the ferrous challenging ghost towns and other old abandoned human activity sites I enjoy hunting. I prefer to keep the small 'OOR' or round 5" DD coils mounted to my Racer 2 full-time for trashy site work. For more open area searches where I can use a standard 7X11 DD coil, even with the improved physical design of the Racer 2's standard coil [size=small](similar to that of the Nokta FORS CoRe or Relic devices)[/size], I found both the original Racer and Racer 2 to be less comfortable and more fatiguing than using the standard coils on the FORS series models.

I even compared the mid-size 5½X10 DD coils for these models and, again, I can hunt for much longer periods, comfortably, using my Relic or CoRe than I could the Racer or Racer 2. As I stated, I have two-each of my Nokta favorites, and I keep an 'OOR' mounted full-time to one FORS CoRe and the other CoRe sports the standard 7X11 DD for working a beach, plowed field, sports field or other larger, open, lower-target area.

One FORS Relic wears the round 5" DD and the other has the 5½X10 Concentric coil attached all the time. My two Nokta Impact units also fashion different coils, with my Test Sample doing most work with the small round 5" DD, and the production Impact keeping the new 5X9½ DD open-frame coil ready-to-go. When I travel I have a Nokta back-pack detector bag along as well with all the accessory coils I might use with the, when the need arises.

You mentioned that you were concerned about the weight of the various models, and I can tell you that in my opinion, all of the Nokta and Makro models discussed have a better weight and balance and feel than the Garrett AT series. I also grab my Impact units, either of them with different coils, more often than I do the Racer 2, and part of that reason is because they balance much better for me and I can get in more hunt time before I need to take a break. As stated, this is especially true when I use mid-size to standard or larger-size search coils.

I also own a Nokta Fors Relic but not all that impressed (yet), but I've only had it out 4 times. Leaning toward the Makro, but could change my mind by tomorrow.

Thoughts?

In my opinion, you need to put in more field time with the Relic. Learn it well and get to know it to take advantage of its strengths. Yes, the Impact provides similar frequencies to the other two models I use, 14 kHz to the CoRe at 15 kHz, and 20 kHz to the Relic's 19 kHz. And yes, it also offers us the option of hunting at the lower 5 kHz operating frequency. That I like to use, now and then, but it is not frequently used, by me, for the bulk of my hunting which is spent in dense iron nails and other plentiful ferrous debris.

I get asked, often, if the Impact is better or the Relic or the CoRe as people think they need a new detector. In many cases they still haven't mastered their own current models to know the strengths or weaknesses they have, and I tell them that ANY of these three units can serve all of my hunting needs. The CoRe has for 2½ years and continues to do so, and the Relic has not let me down at all for 1½ years. Joining them, the Impact also works out a lot of the time this year, really being put to use more often as I need the time afield to master what it has to offer. Still, all three models travel with me because all three models work, work well, balance well, and provide me with outstanding performance.

Just work with what you have, master the Nokta Relic, then consider what you might want to have in the way of features before you start shopping for a new-to-you detector. If you are concerned about weight and balance, just follow then better suggestions for effective set-up and don't extend a rod/coil too far out in front of you. The search coil ought to be positioned about 12" to 18" in front of your lead toe when hunting. Keep the search coil sweeps shorter for more efficient coverage and overlapping, and to help prevent faster sweeping that comes about with broad, arching sweeps.

Use that Relic and work it in a slow and methodical coil presentation and get to know it well. It was 105° yesterday here in Vale, Oregon and we're headed into the low triple-digits again today, so I am going to post this and head out-the-door and try to get in an hour of shaded hunting with my CoRe, Relic and Impact. I wish you the best of success on your next foray afield, and I encourage you to spend that time with the Relic.

Monte

 

[staffydog33]

My choice would be Racer 2....AT Pro ain't in same league.....it's a C+ grade wise, IMHO and the Racer 2 is worthy ofan A grade.,

I've used my racer in black sand, wet sand, dry, coil FULLY submerged under sea water, with zero falsing etc.

Absolutely LOVE it.

Batteries will be going hours upon hours upon HOURS way longer than the Impact.

Plus you will go longer, as Racer is lighter.

Stunning big display on Racer 2.

There is nooooo way I would even consider getting rid of my Racer 2 for a wayyy to complicated, multi-frequency, heavy and battery hogging machine like the Impact.

No doubt, it's good, but when you put them side by side and do a big comparison list of pro's & Con's IMHO...Racer 2 wins over the Impact all day long.

Oh, and as far as the AT Pro Max thing-a-me-bob....lol....I've owned Ace 250, Euroace, AT Pro, Racer 1 and Racer 2....Trust me, The New AT Max will be blown away by the Racer 2 all day, every day.

Matt.

 

[Monte]

I will disagree with you on a few things, Matt, since some of your thoughts differ from my 'opinions' from ample field-time, with both the Racer 2 and Impact..

My choice would be Racer 2....AT Pro ain't in same league.....it's a C+ grade wise, IMHO and the Racer 2 is worthy ofan A grade.

I am with you on this one because I found the AT series to be top heavy, I didn't care for the gray scale display background, the numbers are dinky, the AT Pro lacks and All Metal mode, and the AT's do get a C grade or slightly better, but not an A grade like the Racer 2.

Batteries will be going hours upon hours upon HOURS way longer than the Impact.

Yes, the Racer series battery life, and I use alkaline batteries all the time, is longer than the Impact, but I am still getting 12+ hours with my Impacts.

Plus you will go longer, as Racer is lighter.

No agreement here because actual weight isn't all that matters. It is also balance, and having used the Racer series for 2 years before getting my Impact in-hand, I only enjoy the Racer 2 with a small coil mounted. The mid-size coils and standard sizes coils are not as well balanced or as comfortable for day-long or just extended detecting time. My Nokta FORS CoRe and Relic devices balance much better with the mid-size and standard-size search coils.

So does the Impact, and I have used every coil size on the Impact and most on the Racer's and can easily give the nod to better balance and feel to the Impact. The Racer 2 is better than the AT Pro, in my opinion, and is a decent unit for most folks, but the Impact has the edge here.

Stunning big display on Racer 2.

Yes, and the Impact also has a similar-size display. Both of them are very clear and informative.

There is nooooo way I would even consider getting rid of my Racer 2 for a wayyy to complicated, multi-frequency, heavy and battery hogging machine like the Impact.

Complicated? I don't think so, and the Impact has some feature adjustment advantages, such as the longer, 8-second, time-out on the display, and a touch of the Settings or Expert buttons has you immediately back at the last adjustment feature used! I have the Racer 2, two FORS CoRe and two FORS Relic units and find the Impact's the easiest to grab and get into action and still very easily to maneuver through the control settings.

No doubt, it's good, but when you put them side by side and do a big comparison list of pro's & Con's IMHO...Racer 2 wins over the Impact all day long.

Nope, I will again disagree. I do like the Racer 2, but by far prefer the Impact overall.

Oh, and as far as the AT Pro Max thing-a-me-bob....lol....I've owned Ace 250, Euroace, AT Pro, Racer 1 and Racer 2....Trust me, The New AT Max will be blown away by the Racer 2 all day, every day.

Matt.

I think we are closer on this one. Even though the AT MAX isn't out yet to be evaluated, I think it would be a stretch to expect it to match any of the Nokta FORS series, the Impact, or Makro Racer 2.

Monte

 

[Old Virginia]

My choice would be Racer 2....AT Pro ain't in same league.....it's a C+ grade wise, IMHO and the Racer 2 is worthy ofan A grade.,

I've used my racer in black sand, wet sand, dry, coil FULLY submerged under sea water, with zero falsing etc.

Absolutely LOVE it.

Batteries will be going hours upon hours upon HOURS way longer than the Impact.

Plus you will go longer, as Racer is lighter.

Stunning big display on Racer 2.

There is nooooo way I would even consider getting rid of my Racer 2 for a wayyy to complicated, multi-frequency, heavy and battery hogging machine like the Impact.

No doubt, it's good, but when you put them side by side and do a big comparison list of pro's & Con's IMHO...Racer 2 wins over the Impact all day long.

Oh, and as far as the AT Pro Max thing-a-me-bob....lol....I've owned Ace 250, Euroace, AT Pro, Racer 1 and Racer 2....Trust me, The New AT Max will be blown away by the Racer 2 all day, every day.

Matt.

Thanks!

 

[Old Virginia]

I set up my Impact with different frequencies for different modes or programs depending on what I want to use that particular program for. I don't find myself jumping around between frequencies while I'm out hunting. Personally, I'll probably seldom use the 5 kHz frequency but time will tell. For the type of hunting you usually do, I think the Racer 2 would be a great choice.

Thanks Tom. Still leaning toward the Racer 2.

 

[Old Virginia]

Old VA.

I have been using a Racer 2 for the past several months and was much more impressed with it than I thought I would be for one main reason: the single menu display. Don't get me wrong, the Racer 2 is very nice VLF detector. But there are a lot of nice VLF machines on the market and in my view that technology is pretty maxed out in terms of performance. What Makro did is rather ingenious in that they made the user interface so easily accessible that it can enhance the performance of the detector. Every setting to adjust or monitor the Racer 2 can be viewed and accessed on one single screen. It was a wonderful change after so many years of stumbling through non-intuitive menus and multiple switches/buttons. Being able to make instant adjustments and change modes on the fly while I was hunting was an advantage I haven't enjoyed in a metal detector before. I found that it resulted in my being able to react to changing environments instantly and enhanced my good finds totals when the day was done.

The detector itself is lightweight with good depth and target separation. When you add the single menu display to that mix you get a detector that I wouldn't hesitate to recommend. I can't comment on the Garrett or the Impact since I have never operated either machine.

Bill (S. CA)

"stumbling through non-intuitive menus and multiple switches/buttons."

Yes, that's my main issue with the XP Deus. The options are a bit overwhelming and confusing. Thanks for the info.

RGW

 

[Old Virginia]

And a 'Trade-Off' can be slightly in our favor or work against us. There is no such thing as a 'perfect' metal detector, so I have long felt it was important to own a 'set' or 'team' of detectors that would complement each other since they had their own strengths. Often times there will be a detector that can do some things for us, but not really too much different from what we already own and use, thus we don't really need it. However, if it also has features, functions or performance that is to our advantage, then we might want to consider adding it to our detector battery or 'team.'

Time for a new tool.

If so, what is it you are looking for in a new-to-you detector? What physical design or features, and for what type of hunting environment?

I'm having difficulty deciding between the Makro Racer 2, the Nokta Impact (concerned about the weight) and the new Garrett AT Max. I own 2 AT Pros and love them.

Let's start with your current detector set-up. You say you have two AT Pro units so I would guess you have coil assignments like I do, keeping different coils on my two Nokta FORS CoRe models, two FORS Relic units, and each of my two Impacts also have their own coil assignment. I had an AT Pro for a while after they came out, and I have borrowed an AT Gold on a couple of occasions to give it a bit of field time against the detectors I keep and carry in my Regular-Use Detector Team.

For me and the types of detecting I do, mainly Relic Hunting older sites that have very moderate to extremely dense iron target contamination, they could usually work reasonably well with the right size coil mounted, but I personally didn't care for the top-heavy weight and balance for prolonged searches, the smaller-size numeric display, lack of an All Metal mode on the AT Pro, and the headphone and coil connector locations are annoying for me. And, while they worked reasonably well, I still had better field performance from my three Nokta models and Makro Racer 2.

The only advantage I could see in the AT Pro was the fact it is waterproof, and while I will add a waterproof detector to my arsenal this year, I favored the performance of what I had/have over what the Pro and Gold could do for me. The AT MAX is an interesting blend of those models, but it isn't out yet for me to evaluate, and it would still have to have some improved performance and/or features to best my CoRe, Relic, Impact or Racer 2.

As for weight, I am always alert for weight and balance and their effect on my bad back, neck and shoulder. My Racer 2 is quite a performer for me in all of the ferrous challenging ghost towns and other old abandoned human activity sites I enjoy hunting. I prefer to keep the small 'OOR' or round 5" DD coils mounted to my Racer 2 full-time for trashy site work. For more open area searches where I can use a standard 7X11 DD coil, even with the improved physical design of the Racer 2's standard coil [size=small](similar to that of the Nokta FORS CoRe or Relic devices)[/size], I found both the original Racer and Racer 2 to be less comfortable and more fatiguing than using the standard coils on the FORS series models.

I even compared the mid-size 5½X10 DD coils for these models and, again, I can hunt for much longer periods, comfortably, using my Relic or CoRe than I could the Racer or Racer 2. As I stated, I have two-each of my Nokta favorites, and I keep an 'OOR' mounted full-time to one FORS CoRe and the other CoRe sports the standard 7X11 DD for working a beach, plowed field, sports field or other larger, open, lower-target area.

One FORS Relic wears the round 5" DD and the other has the 5½X10 Concentric coil attached all the time. My two Nokta Impact units also fashion different coils, with my Test Sample doing most work with the small round 5" DD, and the production Impact keeping the new 5X9½ DD open-frame coil ready-to-go. When I travel I have a Nokta back-pack detector bag along as well with all the accessory coils I might use with the, when the need arises.

You mentioned that you were concerned about the weight of the various models, and I can tell you that in my opinion, all of the Nokta and Makro models discussed have a better weight and balance and feel than the Garrett AT series. I also grab my Impact units, either of them with different coils, more often than I do the Racer 2, and part of that reason is because they balance much better for me and I can get in more hunt time before I need to take a break. As stated, this is especially true when I use mid-size to standard or larger-size search coils.

I also own a Nokta Fors Relic but not all that impressed (yet), but I've only had it out 4 times. Leaning toward the Makro, but could change my mind by tomorrow.

Thoughts?

In my opinion, you need to put in more field time with the Relic. Learn it well and get to know it to take advantage of its strengths. Yes, the Impact provides similar frequencies to the other two models I use, 14 kHz to the CoRe at 15 kHz, and 20 kHz to the Relic's 19 kHz. And yes, it also offers us the option of hunting at the lower 5 kHz operating frequency. That I like to use, now and then, but it is not frequently used, by me, for the bulk of my hunting which is spent in dense iron nails and other plentiful ferrous debris.

I get asked, often, if the Impact is better or the Relic or the CoRe as people think they need a new detector. In many cases they still haven't mastered their own current models to know the strengths or weaknesses they have, and I tell them that ANY of these three units can serve all of my hunting needs. The CoRe has for 2½ years and continues to do so, and the Relic has not let me down at all for 1½ years. Joining them, the Impact also works out a lot of the time this year, really being put to use more often as I need the time afield to master what it has to offer. Still, all three models travel with me because all three models work, work well, balance well, and provide me with outstanding performance.

Just work with what you have, master the Nokta Relic, then consider what you might want to have in the way of features before you start shopping for a new-to-you detector. If you are concerned about weight and balance, just follow then better suggestions for effective set-up and don't extend a rod/coil too far out in front of you. The search coil ought to be positioned about 12" to 18" in front of your lead toe when hunting. Keep the search coil sweeps shorter for more efficient coverage and overlapping, and to help prevent faster sweeping that comes about with broad, arching sweeps.

Use that Relic and work it in a slow and methodical coil presentation and get to know it well. It was 105° yesterday here in Vale, Oregon and we're headed into the low triple-digits again today, so I am going to post this and head out-the-door and try to get in an hour of shaded hunting with my CoRe, Relic and Impact. I wish you the best of success on your next foray afield, and I encourage you to spend that time with the Relic.

Monte

Sage advice from a true gentleman and a scholar! I'll probably hang on to the Nokt Fors Relic and give it more time, per your advice. I'm pretty sure I'm going to sell the XP Deus though and get the Racer 2 to replace one of my AT Pro's. Thanks again Monte for your time and effort in advising. HH!!