Conductive Mode vs Ferrous Mode?

[Onus]

As posted earlier I sent my Safari in to the Minelab Service Dept. because I didn't think it was operating correctly. They phoned yesterday and said it would be the last week of the month before it came back. In the meantime I have been rereading the Owner's Manual and Andy Sabisch's book for about the tenth time at least. I am really having a problem understanding the difference between the Conductive and Ferrous mode of operation. Maybe it's because my machine wasn't performing as the books said it would? And not having my Safari here to work with it is difficult to test things out and see what it does. That being said I have questions. From Andy's book" "In the conductivity audio mode, the audio tone will increase as the relative conductivity of the target increases." Is "tone" meaning in pitch or in volume? It goes on to say that some rusted iron objects can become conductive over time and produce a high pitch tone like a coin in the conductivity mode but will produce a {-} display and be easily identifiable. My machine when it hit some rusted iron with the halo effect would sound like a coin and show a 34 to 37 instead of a minus number. Further, the tone pitch was the same in either mode. I could never tell any difference. Yet the book says in the Ferrous mode metals with the highest ferrous content will produce lower tones. So isn't the book saying the same thing about both modes only just putting it a different way? What I am not understanding is, what is the difference between higher conductivity and higher ferrous content? Isn't high ferrous content less conductive than low ferrous content, therefore the tone will be lower for high ferrous content in either mode?

Confused? So am I. Now you see why I sent my machine in to be checked out. This one problem alone is enough to completely ruin a hunting outing. I guess the bottom line is that if it isn't happening on my Safari like the book and manual says it is supposed to happen, then I could never understand the situation I just described. I sure hope the service department sees this. It is very difficult to explain. Onus

.

 

[psyvad]

Tone refers to the pitch. The only high iron tone I've experienced in conductivity always hits at 40, so I reject that in all of my customized programs.
Hope you get your Safari back soon!

 

[TomH]

Onus,

Think of the pitch range of the signal as being divided into two groups, one representing the TID numbers from -1 to -10 and the other representing the numbers from 1 to 40. In ferrous mode the highest ferrous content (-10) has the lowest pitch, with the pitch ascending all the way to the lowest ferrous content (40). It forms a single ascending scale of pitches so, the lower the tone the higher the ferrous content.

In conductive mode the two sections work separately. Starting from zero and increasing, the pitch gets higher as the ferrous content decreases so the higher the number, the higher the pitch. A TID of 12 should have a middle pitch tone while a TID of 32 should have a nice higher pitched flutey tone. On the other end of the scale the reverse happens. Starting at zero and decreasing, the lower the negative number, the higher the pitch so a -10 will produce a higher pitch sound than a -3. This means that it is possible for a negative number and a positive number to both produce the same pitched tone so the TID is the deciding factor.

Personally, I use the ferrous tones and in a dispute the tone always overides the TID.

Just a humble opinion,
TomH

 

[ngrelic]

Good explanation Tom.

 

[TomH]

ngrelic,

Thanks. I am at the point where I use the tones almost exclusively when deciding when to dig. I have had a couple of targets that read iron on the TID but gave a higher tone, not a perfect flutey tone but close. I dig the target and find a bullet.

How are you liking your Explorer? Any opinions on which is the better machine for relic hunting? It is hotter than normal here in the Burg so digging holes is out of the question. I just picked up a used 5x7 Excelerator EQ pro coil from a good buddy and bought the 15" WOT from a dealer. I like the idea of the smaller coil for some of the really trashy house sites around here and the bigger coil will be a benefit when we are out in the big fields.

Later,
TomH

 

[ngrelic]

Tom,

The SE has a wider range of sensitivity and much wider disc. range that you can use to set up custom patterns. Using the smartfind screen is the way to go seems like, still learning. There are of course more tone options and the variability of the tones is user adjustable (I leave it at max). The noise cancel is also user adjustable if needed. Is it any better for relic hunting? Well the depth is the same as far as I can tell and I believe depth is the name of the game in relic hunting. I've seen nothing that will match the depth of the Safari or SE here in NW Georgia. The SE has the advantage in disc. and sens. fine tuning, and I suppose at certain sites that could give a slight depth advantage. I've been hunting a site that is FULL of iron and the ground is that reddish yellow clay crap that will drive a VLF machine ape. With a little iron mask and sens. at 75% manual the SE hangs in there pretty darn well. In the bad ground that you hunt in Va., Md. and Pa. I could see where the wider range of adjustments would help, but not cure, bad ground problems.

Still learning this beast and will be for a while,
Barry

 

[Onus]

Thanks Tom! That was the understanding I had. But since my machine wasn't doing it, I couldn't figure it out. And not ever owning a Minelab machine before I had a little problem with the terms used. And in that same vein, I had no idea if it was working right or not! Thanks again! Onus

 

[TomH]

Onus,

I have had two earlier Minelab machines but the Safari (all the FBS machines for that matter) is a totally different animal. I know of a couple of people who were long time diggers familiar with Whites and Fisher machines and who had a real difficult time getting used to the Minelab way of doing things. I'm an ex Jazz keyboardist who took to the almost unlimited tones produced by the FBS machines and really prefers digging with his ears

TomH

 

[Tico]

How would I set up the Safari to hunt Coins in Ferrous tones
Or should I just stick with the factory Coin modes with conductive tones while I'm learning the machine.
Factory Coin & Jewelry mode w/ Conductive tones worked pretty good on the first outing.

 

[ngrelic]

I like conductive tones myself, but that is a personal choice. You could just set up the same disc pattern for coin and jewelry mode in the relic or all metal mode and save it there or cross save it to the c & j or coin mode if you want to see the icons.

Being a musician does help with the tone variation. I play bass, and a little guitar, myself.

 

[Onus]

I've never dug with my ears. But my mom use to say I could grow peanuts in there! Onus

 

[Onus]

Well, I thought I had it but I am losing it! I am going out in the yard this minute and check out the two modes and see if I can distinguish the difference. I am having a big problem with the halo effect on large iron objects. In conductive mode they are all sounding like a quarter, showing 37 and in the silver range. So, if I go into the ferrous mode it should sound much like a quarter but show a negative number? If that is the case it would definately help. Will report back. Onus

 

[TomH]

Onus,

What is your sensitivity set to?

I never use Conductivity mode, but I believe that iron targets should have higher tones but negative TID numbers. In Ferrous they should have low tones and negative numbers. I really don't know if there is any advantage to one system or another. I use ferrous because I upgraded to the Safari from an Xterra and was used to a target with higher ferrous content triggering a lower tone than a target with a lower ferrous content.

I was swinging the 15" inch WOT coil in a really trashy area of one of our favorite digging spots and was getting three to five non-ferrous targets per sweep (predominantly foil and pop tops). Because I was using a new coil I didn't scrim out the known trash but just kept listening to the hits. Right in the middle of one pass the tone jumped up to the flute range and the TID hit a solid 32 and I dug a .58 cal bullet in the midst of all the trash. I was really surprised at how it picked it out in all the other crap.

TomH

 

[Onus]

Ok, just spent about an hour outside with my test coins, etc and my book playing with the two modes. What I found is that for me the ferrous mode works best to ID the targets on top of the ground at least. I set up in all metal that is automatically ferrous mode. The only problem I see is that it takes a looooooong time for the machine to reset from a rusty wrench (my test target) and a silver quarter (my other test target) After I pass up the wrench that is reading a -7 with a low tone, my brain says reject this target since I am not hunting relics. Then I move a foot further along the ground and pass over the silver quarter and get the high tone instantly but is still shows the -7. In about 30 seconds it changes to a +39. The book states that a rusted target may sometimes emit a high pitched sound but will show a negative number on the scale. In this case I get the high pitch over the silver quarter but the negative number is still showing making me think I have a rusted piece of ferrous material. But if I pick the coil up and swing it wide to one side and then back to the silver quarter I found that the +39 will appear. (A neat little trick to remember). I don't know how this will work on a buried coin and a high ferrous rusted target. Unfortunately I don't have anything ferrous in my coin garden. But I will in a few months because I plan on planting one! Onus

 

[CONDUCTOR7E]

Very interesting topic! I too have had the hits with the ''halo'' effect but I've never had -37 appear only 37 .I also notice that the tone fluctuates on targets with this effect and is not a steady solid signal like say a coin or button or certain relics.

 

[Onus]

There is no -37. Onus