Deep signal cursor movement question...

[Knipper]

I'm using Bryce's settings on my SE. IM 22, sens auto 26, and the 12 " excelerator coil.

Today I finally got out to hunt a bit and I chose a heavily hunted park in a nearby town. I figured there had to be some really deep ones
left. Well, picken's were pretty darn slim, unless you count all the nails I dug at 9-10 inches!

Only found two older coins, one being an 1884 Indian head, and the other a 1922-D cent (both at around 9-10 inches) , which I'm not happy with, considering I spent 4 hours hunting.

The thing is, my audio sounded off just great over all the nails. But the cursor would stay in the coin quadrant for say, 3 out of 4 passes, then jump left, right on the line where the iron mask stopped on the screen. Not in the black, but right on the line near the top of the screen. Then it would pass back over to the coin side, upper right of the screen. I would have stopped digging the signals that responded that way, but the audio sounded so darn good that I had to see what was down there. Of course, after much digging, I'd unearth a nail (of every variety and shape for some reason...) and end up scratching my head, as I never truly got a ''null".

So, my question is: Is this a common occurrence with others on the forum? Am I just a little slow on the uptake in learning what the machine is telling me, or am I just too hopeful that there might be a coin down there?

Again, the audio signal was a beautiful flutey tone that everyone wants to hear, and did in fact sound that way from left to right and at 90 degrees to that. But the cursor did jump to the left once in a while. I'd like to save time digging and walk away from these signals, if I knew that this response was common to deep nails, so I'd appreciate some input from others who have had more hours on the machine than I have!

Thanks
Knipper

 

[Mike Bearden]

and about the only way to avoid it is by running a wide open iron mask screen and use ferrous tones to hear the iron, even then it's not 100% fool proof ... otherwise you'll dig those "nice sounding nails" and regularly ... sorry for the bad news but it is what it is

A heavily hunted park scenario is the perfect place to be running the Explorer like that anyway, especially if your looking for the deep lonely targets missed by lesser machines.


Just my opinion but I've only got 8000 or so hours on the Explorer clock ... so you might want to ask an expert


Mike

 

[Knipper]

Mike,

I figured it would be something like that. The thing is, I don't have the hours in this machine that you do, but I've hunted with good machines for over 33 years, and do catch on to new machines eventually.

If I could be sure that this kind of response was fairly consistent, I could walk away from the target with more confidence.

I've used the all metal/ferrous tone setting on occasion and can now hunt that way, but the truth is, the constant input of noise seriously damages my calm, so I don't do it very often. I know the depth this machine is capable of, having dug some really deep good targets (none of which my buddies could even pick up!).

The two deep coins I did recover today did not respond with a cursor shift at all, as there was no trash in with or near the targets. Likewise, there was nothing else in the hole with the nails. The responses were different, but I just wanted to be sure that others have not found coins REGULARLY, when the cursor did the bounce thing.

Thanks!
Knipper

 

[treasurefiend]

I would be happy with those keepers for only 4hrs hunting. I usually have to hunt 6-8hrs to get 4 or 5 keepers and almost all of mine were from deep jumping iffy signals that others bypassed for junk. I do dig a ton of nails by hunting like this but in my neck of the woods all of the easy targets a long gone so I have to pay to get my keepers. Also I dig any targets that look like a bouncing nickel, more times than not they are DEEP foil or beaver tails but every once in a while I squeak out a V or an old Buff. I went out on Wed for 3 hrs and the only coin I got was a super deep sharp 1920 Buffalo in a hole by some slag metal but I got it.

 

[Knipper]

I hear you treasurefiend.....

We have some really good hunters in this neck of the woods, and finding any spot that yields nice old coins in quantity is very tough these days. I'll never give up this hobby, but when I see all the spectacular finds posted on this forum, its hard for me to get excited with one lonely Indian Head Cent. Trouble is, I remember the 'glory days' of the mid '70's and I tend to judge results based on what I found back then. Not reasonable, true, however I hunt with the hopes of finding some nice Barber or Seated silver once in a while.
As my time to hunt is limited, I always try to get as much "bang for the buck" as I can. I'm still willing to put in the time and hope for the best.

Knipper

 

[Hotcz70]

Knipper...I kind of feel like treasurefiend does...when I'm at a heavily pounded park and can find 2 keepers...I truthfully don't feel like digging 9 pieces of trash is that bad...especially when you already know you will have to chase some iffy stuff to find anything.

I know it does get frustrating...but like Mike Bearden said....even ferrous/AM is not foolproof.

According to the nails you dug and the 2 coins you found...that means nearly 25% of the iffy hits you dug (according to cursor movement)...were good targets.

I have got my percentage to up around 50% good coins as compared to iron when chasing those hits....but I have a gazillion hours on my SE learning what it's telling me.

NONE of my silver finds the last year or so have been textbook cursor locking hits. They have ALL flutterted along the top of the screen...bouncing from my iron mask line...then fluttering right top...then back towards the iton mask line...exactly as you stated.

I then use the pinpoint on my SE to make the final decision as to whether or not to dig....because of this. If when I hit pinpoint...the cursor goes towards top right corner...I dig. If it heads over to iron...I walk. It's not foolproof...but it is ther method of chance I use...and it has been working quite well. Do I dig some iron...sure...but not much...seriously. I might have 4 to 6 pieces of iron in my pouch by the end of the day...and I already knew they were iffy before I dug them.

It's just a tradeoff for finding walked over coins by others. Like Mike B. said..."It is what it is". There is no foolproof method..but truthfully I don't dig much iron at all..unless I'm purposely trying to clean out a site to see the layer underneath.

I look at is this way...that's two more coins you pulled out of a worked park...that you would obviously not have dug had you not been trying some more iffy hits.

One more thing...after I hit all metal pinpoint on the SE and recheck the iffy hit....if it heads over to iron...9 out of 10 times it IS iron....so I walk.

 

[Hotcz70]

This has been said a million times already...but I'll add one more to the total. There is NO secret..and there are NO perfect settings or shortcuts...only the settings and method we each prefer as individuals...and that we have trained our ears to hear

. More importantly there is NO substitute for experience and spending 1000's of hours experimenting in the field...regardless of what settings you use...or if you hunt all metal or conductive.

You still have to spend countless hours learning the machine...and it does not ever stop.

No matter what you know or think you know....you still have to be able to interpret the language the SE is speaking...and it varies from site to site...and day to day.

It's like using a fishing lure that's supposed to catch tons of big bass.

I bought one of those lures a few years ago...and did it work?...yep...I caught a 9.6 lb largemouth bass from a farm pond...and 10 more that summer that each weighed in excess of 5 lb. Dang...now I want to go fishin'

Does that mean you could use the same lure and have the same results...maybe...and hopefully...but it's not etched in stone.

I feel like I learn something each time out with the SE...and also something I already knew...that there are no shortcuts and no secrets...only hard work and dedication.

Good luck buddy...and keep on trying different things.

 

[deeponedge]

Now I want to go fishing with you

 

[bazooka]

That's very interesting about the cursor movement in pinpoint. I didn't even realize that the cursor worked while in pinpoint. I can't wait to try it out!

This seems to be my main problem as well right now Knipper, distinguishing between edge-of-iron falsing and coin next to iron. I may be making it harder than it should be, but I do feel like almost all of the coins I dig, I'm fairly positive that they are a coin, whether it be deep or next to trash. This leads me to believe that I'm missing a lot of coins by passing up on those good repeatable one-way tones that I'm sure are iron because they don't repeat when I hit it from 90 degrees.

 

[Hotcz70]

the pinpoint feature on the SE. Many people hate it for some reason...so much so that they complain about it like the screen glare issue??

If you familiarize yourself with it like you do other functions and traits of the SE...it will definitely help you make the final decision as to whether or not to dig.

Is it foolproof...absolutely not...but nothing else is either. It IS however another tool to aid you in the decision making process.


The only setback is on those occasions when it is rendered useless by being sucked towards the iron if it's a big chunk.

Most of the time though...if the cursor stays mostly to top right when I pinpoint...I'll give it a shot.

If it locks towards the iron mask setting..or towards the iron though...I'm movin' on brother.

 

[Mike Bearden]

Since we're mainly discussing the deep iron targets that sound good... and you've already gotten some great responses from these folks ... here's something else that really helps me in that situation and I forgot to mention.


The next time you get over one of these targets you've described, get a TIGHT pinpoint location on the target and simply dig a 3 or 4" plug out and then hit pinpoint again and see if the target seems to have MOVED to another location under the coil .... because iron hits will move pretty consistently and give themselves away by movement ... this works very well for me.

I know that you're a very capable hunter, you've been at it for quite awhile, but once you get a handle on making the iron rear it's ugly head BEFORE digging to China for it, things won't be so frustrating and you'll feel much better about the one's you decide to just leave behind after digging that smaller plug.

I know what you mean about running with a wide open IM screen, it can and will become a headache QUICKLY ... but this method WORKS quite well using disc too ... it's just a little slower reaction time for the processor.

Good Hunting
Mike

 

[Knipper]

Thanks for all the great replies!

Dang! I completely forgot about the pinpoint function, and how its cursor movement could help ID the target!
I seem to recall reading about that, either on the forum or in the manual. Yesterday I guess I was just too focused
on audio, and didn't really observe what the detector was doing in pinpoint!

But all the suggestions are great! Its why this is my favorite forum.

Bryce...nail to target ratio yesterday was more like 20 to 1. I got a great workout from all that bending and digging, though!
The one good thing about it was that the soil was nice and black, and kind of sandy, so digging was not to bad.

I'd really like to know how all these nails get spread out and wind up so deep in public parks! I was digging everything from spikes to finishing nails. Its like some sadistic "bastid" said "I'm gonna salt this park with nails...one every square foot! That'll show 'em in the
future when they come looking for coins with metal detectors!"

 

[dewcon4414]

I dont like all the noise AM gives either so i hunt with nails disc and modified it a bit. Sure cuts down on the noise and i have a larger screen to watch the bouncy thingy. Pinpoint cant be beat for sizing a target. What i have noticed is if its big iron even with my gain at 9 i can tell just by the shear volume of the tone. I likely dont dig enough of those nails or id have more silver.

Dew