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Despite the many ways can you squeeze a lemon, it will never produce Champagne!
- Thread starter MattR
- Start date
Hard Nosed Dave
New member
I don't completely agree with JMB when he say's "Mr Minelab listened to our requests"
In my opinion, I don't think Mr Minelab really heard much of what was being asked and only listened to a select few.
Maybe he could have also listened to the ones that had some other sensible and practical ideas that the Explorer could have had incorporated into it this time.
Mr ML listened very little to what many of us really wanted and gave us what he knows would probably apease some of us.
He's still squeezing that lemon. I don't think he's actually got every little bit as yet. He's just added some water with an artificial sweetner.
Still a little too watered down for me.
Not sweet enough.
Let me add my own.....sugar.
Please Mr ML give us some fresh real lemonade. Full strength would be nice.
Hard Nosed Dave
(Haven't slept too well. Still tired)
In my opinion, I don't think Mr Minelab really heard much of what was being asked and only listened to a select few.
Maybe he could have also listened to the ones that had some other sensible and practical ideas that the Explorer could have had incorporated into it this time.
Mr ML listened very little to what many of us really wanted and gave us what he knows would probably apease some of us.
He's still squeezing that lemon. I don't think he's actually got every little bit as yet. He's just added some water with an artificial sweetner.
Still a little too watered down for me.
Not sweet enough.
Let me add my own.....sugar.
Please Mr ML give us some fresh real lemonade. Full strength would be nice.
Hard Nosed Dave
(Haven't slept too well. Still tired)
Hi JB!
What beats me, is why does it take the punters to tell the designer, what the shortcommings are regarding his 'developed' detector?
After about two weeks of owning a Explorer II, it's functionallity problems were obvious.
So much for these notorious 'field-testing experts'
If any one doesn't savvy their agenda, in producing non-critical, commentaries, then gulliblity is evident.
The theoretical premise of the Minelab Explorer is excellent.
The implementation though in some of its facets, are simply flawed.
Who in the name of good bussiness sense, gives their prized product to inept field testers?
It is not sufficient to rely on dubious manipulation of technical advertising, or the endorsment of self-appointed 'experts', who have little or no qualificatins in the applied technology.
You must ensure that those to whom you give the task of testing, are NOT the ones who write the reviews for gain at the expense of the guys who pay their hard earned cash for the resulting product.
The only maker lately to honour its machine's problems and do something about them, is the USA firm producing the excellent T2.
Happy hunting....MattR
What beats me, is why does it take the punters to tell the designer, what the shortcommings are regarding his 'developed' detector?
After about two weeks of owning a Explorer II, it's functionallity problems were obvious.
So much for these notorious 'field-testing experts'
If any one doesn't savvy their agenda, in producing non-critical, commentaries, then gulliblity is evident.
The theoretical premise of the Minelab Explorer is excellent.
The implementation though in some of its facets, are simply flawed.
Who in the name of good bussiness sense, gives their prized product to inept field testers?
It is not sufficient to rely on dubious manipulation of technical advertising, or the endorsment of self-appointed 'experts', who have little or no qualificatins in the applied technology.
You must ensure that those to whom you give the task of testing, are NOT the ones who write the reviews for gain at the expense of the guys who pay their hard earned cash for the resulting product.
The only maker lately to honour its machine's problems and do something about them, is the USA firm producing the excellent T2.
Happy hunting....MattR
Hey MattR, I was wondering when you would post. I thought for a brief moment that this was going to be V-Flex somehow wound around FBS and BBS with all kinds of interesting changes. I understand your comment about the T2 but we users have been the RR department for years for most manufactures. The SE hit the market a good 90 days sooner than I expected so does that mean another that we both like is soon to follow?
MattR something you posted on another forum way back when got me to thinking that it really is not the technology but getting it in a package that will enable the user to apply it properly. Some guys do that but most I think just manage to touch what it really can do. I have thought for a long time that the technology is there already but needs to be deployed better. Why worry about a few more inches when we can get that if we use the detector we have properly. By that I mean swing the search head and cover the ground so the depth from one end of the sweep to the other is not all over the place up and down. I frankly cannot see the current technology doing much more than it does other than a feature change here and there and some slight touch up once in a while.
I wonder what would happen if we could simply get a constant 8 to 9 inches all the time? I have thought for a long time the technology can do that but we defeat ourselves or the package for the technology is just not real user friendly. We end up beating our heads against a brick wall and simply get wore down.
I am not complaining about the SE but just observations in general as I will most likely soon get an SE and then about Christmas another new toy.
MattR something you posted on another forum way back when got me to thinking that it really is not the technology but getting it in a package that will enable the user to apply it properly. Some guys do that but most I think just manage to touch what it really can do. I have thought for a long time that the technology is there already but needs to be deployed better. Why worry about a few more inches when we can get that if we use the detector we have properly. By that I mean swing the search head and cover the ground so the depth from one end of the sweep to the other is not all over the place up and down. I frankly cannot see the current technology doing much more than it does other than a feature change here and there and some slight touch up once in a while.
I wonder what would happen if we could simply get a constant 8 to 9 inches all the time? I have thought for a long time the technology can do that but we defeat ourselves or the package for the technology is just not real user friendly. We end up beating our heads against a brick wall and simply get wore down.
I am not complaining about the SE but just observations in general as I will most likely soon get an SE and then about Christmas another new toy.
Matt,
Thank you for your kind words towards me - I don't believe in mincing words and sometimes ruffle some feathers in doing so, but I feel a spirited discussion is good for ML as well as for us.
I was excited when I first learned about the Explorer II as I was and continue to be such a big fan of the XS! However, after doing a little research it became painfully obvious that it simply powered up faster and was a little better built and balanced. This was not enough to motivate me into buying one - in fact I was talked out of it by a very honest dealer that would have only gained (at least in the short term) by my purchase.
I'm trained as a software engineer and I'm quite good at what I do - the Explorer software is light years behind what it could be using the same hardware and physical interface (the existing buttons). I even offered to redesign it for them at one point and no one there ever took me seriously.
Now we get the SE and I get excited again only to feel somewhat disappointed at the nominal "enhancements" that are offered. I would gladly pay $2500 for an Explorer with state of the art software and hardware that can refresh the SmartFind screen in real-time without ANY lag time. Don't care about start-up time - it could take 15 minutes to power up, who cares? Balance - I'm big and the weight has never really bothered me. Build - my XS has some cracks in the clamps, but it's still working fine - I can always find ways to fix these sorts of things. Digital numbers - who cares, don't use them. Sens, thresh, etc. - never change them and use mostly default settings. Battery - don't care, I use the alkaline pack and have two of them, have never run out of juice, don't care about less power consumption. Color - don't care if it's black or off white. Pinpoint - I'm a pro at pinpointing with the XS once you get used to it it's VERY accurate so again who cares.
Now here's what would have motivated me to upgrade in a hurry:
1. Much faster processor.
2. Re-write of the software by someone who is really good at video game design and user interfaces. ML should just start from scratch here for the best results.
3. Introduction of a USB port so I could attach Explorer to my PC and edit/save/load programs and things.
4. New coil/circuitry for greater depth.
5. Built-in X-1 type probe with a momentary contact switch.
Now I suppose that if I didn't already have the XS then buying the SE would be a no-brainer, but how about something for us loyal legions of Explorer XS users that have been waiting for a REAL upgrade for years now.
By the way, another US dealer (whose name I won't mention) also just told me that the SE really doesn't do much that the XS won't do - and so this person recommended NOT buying the SE to replace my XS. I'm glad there are some honest dealers out there that are simply not interested in moving as many SE's out the door as possible.
So how 'bout it Mr. Minelab - can we have that Explorer III?
Thank you for your kind words towards me - I don't believe in mincing words and sometimes ruffle some feathers in doing so, but I feel a spirited discussion is good for ML as well as for us.
I was excited when I first learned about the Explorer II as I was and continue to be such a big fan of the XS! However, after doing a little research it became painfully obvious that it simply powered up faster and was a little better built and balanced. This was not enough to motivate me into buying one - in fact I was talked out of it by a very honest dealer that would have only gained (at least in the short term) by my purchase.
I'm trained as a software engineer and I'm quite good at what I do - the Explorer software is light years behind what it could be using the same hardware and physical interface (the existing buttons). I even offered to redesign it for them at one point and no one there ever took me seriously.
Now we get the SE and I get excited again only to feel somewhat disappointed at the nominal "enhancements" that are offered. I would gladly pay $2500 for an Explorer with state of the art software and hardware that can refresh the SmartFind screen in real-time without ANY lag time. Don't care about start-up time - it could take 15 minutes to power up, who cares? Balance - I'm big and the weight has never really bothered me. Build - my XS has some cracks in the clamps, but it's still working fine - I can always find ways to fix these sorts of things. Digital numbers - who cares, don't use them. Sens, thresh, etc. - never change them and use mostly default settings. Battery - don't care, I use the alkaline pack and have two of them, have never run out of juice, don't care about less power consumption. Color - don't care if it's black or off white. Pinpoint - I'm a pro at pinpointing with the XS once you get used to it it's VERY accurate so again who cares.
Now here's what would have motivated me to upgrade in a hurry:
1. Much faster processor.
2. Re-write of the software by someone who is really good at video game design and user interfaces. ML should just start from scratch here for the best results.
3. Introduction of a USB port so I could attach Explorer to my PC and edit/save/load programs and things.
4. New coil/circuitry for greater depth.
5. Built-in X-1 type probe with a momentary contact switch.
Now I suppose that if I didn't already have the XS then buying the SE would be a no-brainer, but how about something for us loyal legions of Explorer XS users that have been waiting for a REAL upgrade for years now.
By the way, another US dealer (whose name I won't mention) also just told me that the SE really doesn't do much that the XS won't do - and so this person recommended NOT buying the SE to replace my XS. I'm glad there are some honest dealers out there that are simply not interested in moving as many SE's out the door as possible.
So how 'bout it Mr. Minelab - can we have that Explorer III?
Andy,
Excuse me for jumping in here, but I enjoy these debates and appreciate your counterpoint. I think Matt's most salient point - at least to me was the perceived conflict of interest of some of the field testers redering the field testing process flawed.
For example, I know you sell books on the Explorer (I own one of your books), you field test the Explorer SE and say it's the best thing since sliced bread, you sell more copies of your latest edition that covers the mysteries of the SE. Can you deny right here that that is in fact a direct conflict of interest as a non-biased field tester? Does this bias if you agree that one exists, not flaw the purpose of the field tests?
I look forward to your reply, and again please excuse the non-solicitted reply to your post.
Excuse me for jumping in here, but I enjoy these debates and appreciate your counterpoint. I think Matt's most salient point - at least to me was the perceived conflict of interest of some of the field testers redering the field testing process flawed.
For example, I know you sell books on the Explorer (I own one of your books), you field test the Explorer SE and say it's the best thing since sliced bread, you sell more copies of your latest edition that covers the mysteries of the SE. Can you deny right here that that is in fact a direct conflict of interest as a non-biased field tester? Does this bias if you agree that one exists, not flaw the purpose of the field tests?
I look forward to your reply, and again please excuse the non-solicitted reply to your post.
John in Florida
Well-known member
"The moment you expect to detect and analyze a one inch diameter coin, at a depth greater than the coil's diameter (in inches), then you are in denial of both common sense and the laws of physics, as related to balanced induction principles, and the real world environment of noise and soil."
The Explorer I had could detect a coin at a depth greater than the diameter of its coil. The detector I use now can do the same. There is no law of physics which says a detector can't do it.
The Explorer I had could detect a coin at a depth greater than the diameter of its coil. The detector I use now can do the same. There is no law of physics which says a detector can't do it.
BarnacleBill
New member
Let's see if this can be encapsulated succinctly.
The above posters feel the EXP(pick a version)is severely lacking in many respects. And in reading many posts over the years I believe it is fair to say that Erik fancies himself as quite a software expert "I'm trained as a software engineer and I'm quite good at what I do".
Cody likewise will expound on his background as a hardware expert, and sounds like Matt would make a marvelous marketing type that would be capable of promoting a product without hype.
Now this is all very exciting, as it appears the necessary human resource elements of a new detector company are available. And based on the shortcomings of the EXP, then obviously there is market share to be had by a better design.
And I am sure once you have the first prototypes ready, then you will be seeking out experienced field testers that have used a wide variety of machines over the years. It would also be nice to have someone that has some credibility and name recognition. Hmmmm I wonder who???
I wish you much success in your new venture and eagerly await the first model.
HH
BarnacleBill
The above posters feel the EXP(pick a version)is severely lacking in many respects. And in reading many posts over the years I believe it is fair to say that Erik fancies himself as quite a software expert "I'm trained as a software engineer and I'm quite good at what I do".
Cody likewise will expound on his background as a hardware expert, and sounds like Matt would make a marvelous marketing type that would be capable of promoting a product without hype.
Now this is all very exciting, as it appears the necessary human resource elements of a new detector company are available. And based on the shortcomings of the EXP, then obviously there is market share to be had by a better design.
And I am sure once you have the first prototypes ready, then you will be seeking out experienced field testers that have used a wide variety of machines over the years. It would also be nice to have someone that has some credibility and name recognition. Hmmmm I wonder who???
I wish you much success in your new venture and eagerly await the first model.
HH
BarnacleBill
Chuck@TreasureHut
New member
I couldn't encapsulate it any better Bill....and I applaud your smooth, forthright delivery technique. There are those who just can't be pleased with any advancements or upgrades. There are also those who could always do it better! The EXP's (any version) are just simply the most advanced hobby detectors currently manufactured. I am proud to fly the Minelab banner in my store! 
Chuck@TreasureHut
New member
Hello MattR......I enjoyed reading your post and that of Eric's below, however, you must realize that many..many..many.. of us "lemmings" just happen to love lemonade! Goes well just plain or mixed with ice tea to concoct an Arnold Palmer. I for one really enjoy looking over my many keepers from a days hunt with my Explorer, while sipping on a cold glass of that refreshing drink with my "buds". Champagne just doesn't fit the image when your fingers are dirty, and your knees ache a little, and the sweat has poured from one's brow, after spending an honest day digging finds with the Explorer......
HH
HH
Chuck@TreasureHut
New member
Well said John.......they must have attended a very different college than we did.
Actually I am not sure I am an expert at anything as I have been retired so long and the technology move so fast. So, for the entire world to read and know I make no claims to have any special knowledge or skills with a metal detector. I once followed the steel toe in my boot for several hours with one of the first VLF detectors since it could not discriminate. Fortunately some one complained about no discrimination and the rest is history.
The SE has some modest changes. The SE changes that most interest me are the VCO pinpointing and Audio 3 which will give a response similar to the Sovereign. I am waiting to see what quieter over trashy soil means but that will be a welcome change.
Since I sold my Explorer11 as I was not able to detect for a while I will buy an SE. Would I run out and buy and SE if I still had my Explorer11? Most likely just to have a new machine to play with. But
The SE has some modest changes. The SE changes that most interest me are the VCO pinpointing and Audio 3 which will give a response similar to the Sovereign. I am waiting to see what quieter over trashy soil means but that will be a welcome change.
Since I sold my Explorer11 as I was not able to detect for a while I will buy an SE. Would I run out and buy and SE if I still had my Explorer11? Most likely just to have a new machine to play with. But
I am sure we attended a different college than you did. I may have taught at the university of which the college you attended was one of many but I seriously doubt it. Does this mean no price break on an SE for me?
Don't be so serious...........it is just a hobby detector.
Do you have the SE in stock and if so how much for one to include an 8" coil with coil cover. Any special package deals? I used the 8" on my Explorer11 and it was great in trashy ground.
Don't be so serious...........it is just a hobby detector.
Do you have the SE in stock and if so how much for one to include an 8" coil with coil cover. Any special package deals? I used the 8" on my Explorer11 and it was great in trashy ground.
Am very satisfied with what I have, I've got champange already and not even interested in the new SE. Only reason I've got the 2 is someone was getting out of detecting and sold it to me for 500 bucks(less than 40 hours on it). Was an old hunting partner that wanted more family time and since wife liked golf, they made it family. I'd enjoy seeing the finds, hearing how well it works, but have not one drop of desire to do anything but enjoy the two I have!! Just my two cents since all these posts about that detector! Someone invents one that digs my holes, then I'm very interested!!
Yes, Mr Barnacle Bill - your high-browed response to a thread which was seriously meant to discuss the new SE product struck me as so well informed and witty that I'm sure Matt, Cody, and I will make sure that you're our first and only field tester! 
By the way, I can point out at least half a dozen deficiencies or design flaws in my Land Rover though I've yet to contemplate starting my own car company.
Additionally, just for the record, I've never said there were serious flaws with the SE - it's looks like a great detector and I'm a HUGE Minelab fan - I just don't see a motivation for me to upgrade my XS.
Regarding how I "fancy" myself - well let me back that up with some credentials - my degree is in Computer Science with a minor in Electrical Engineering from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI) where I graduated cumlaude in 1983. The Wall Street firm for which I design high-frequency trading strategies feels that I'm good enough at what I do to pay me quite handsomely for it -- not bragging, just don't enjoy someone alluding to me spinning fantasies about what I can and cannot do when it comes to my job. I have been designing and writing software for over 23 years now - so if that constitutes a "fancy" then so be it!
By the way, I can point out at least half a dozen deficiencies or design flaws in my Land Rover though I've yet to contemplate starting my own car company.
Additionally, just for the record, I've never said there were serious flaws with the SE - it's looks like a great detector and I'm a HUGE Minelab fan - I just don't see a motivation for me to upgrade my XS.
Regarding how I "fancy" myself - well let me back that up with some credentials - my degree is in Computer Science with a minor in Electrical Engineering from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI) where I graduated cumlaude in 1983. The Wall Street firm for which I design high-frequency trading strategies feels that I'm good enough at what I do to pay me quite handsomely for it -- not bragging, just don't enjoy someone alluding to me spinning fantasies about what I can and cannot do when it comes to my job. I have been designing and writing software for over 23 years now - so if that constitutes a "fancy" then so be it!
Chuck@TreasureHut
New member
I'm sure we did, and just as sure you didn't teach there....at least not for at least 20 years after I graduated. I have a masters in Electronic Engineering from the University of Michigan, and a Doctorate in life experience to include metal detecting from the world.
Whose being too serious? Not me.
Cody....Cody....Cody....why would you want an SE and settle for just lemonade? I'm sure you would be much happier with a Bounty Hunter or better yet.....a Heath kit.
HH and posting.
Whose being too serious? Not me.
Cody....Cody....Cody....why would you want an SE and settle for just lemonade? I'm sure you would be much happier with a Bounty Hunter or better yet.....a Heath kit.
HH and posting.
sinister_steve
New member
Hi guys have been reading youre posts on the different detectors,and I have a limited amount of funds like most of everyone,and want the honest opinion from people on here that know which is the best detector out right now.Thanks much Steve
Chuck@TreasureHut
New member
Hello Steve.....please don't take some of our posts too seriously, we all tend to get carried away with our opinions.
It is hard to go wrong with any of the Minelab units, or the Tesoro units for that matter. A lot depends of course on what type of hunting you will be doing most of the time, and how much your budget will allow.
I personally believe that the Explorer II, and now the Explorer SE are the absolute best machines for coins and jewelry. They are pretty darn good on relics as well. They go deep, and they are quite stable and accurate discriminators. The X-Terra 70 is also a winner in the coins, rings, relic and prospecting categories. While the Explorers require a little lonhger learning curve, they are definitely worth the patience. The X-Terra and Tesoro machines are pretty much turn on and go, with little learning curve.
The technology and quality control employed by Minelab are hard to beat. On the other hand, Tesoro (oops, wrong forum) are very hard to beat for relics.
Regardless of your choice.....take the time to learn the language of the machine, slow down your search, and enjoy the finds!
Chuck@TreasureHut
It is hard to go wrong with any of the Minelab units, or the Tesoro units for that matter. A lot depends of course on what type of hunting you will be doing most of the time, and how much your budget will allow.
I personally believe that the Explorer II, and now the Explorer SE are the absolute best machines for coins and jewelry. They are pretty darn good on relics as well. They go deep, and they are quite stable and accurate discriminators. The X-Terra 70 is also a winner in the coins, rings, relic and prospecting categories. While the Explorers require a little lonhger learning curve, they are definitely worth the patience. The X-Terra and Tesoro machines are pretty much turn on and go, with little learning curve.
The technology and quality control employed by Minelab are hard to beat. On the other hand, Tesoro (oops, wrong forum) are very hard to beat for relics.
Regardless of your choice.....take the time to learn the language of the machine, slow down your search, and enjoy the finds!
Chuck@TreasureHut