I noticed when I had the discrimination set say at 25 and as I sweep I see numbers going from say 2 to 7 but makes no noise. My question if there is a good target among the trash will it null out or will make a sound among the no hearing signals of say 4-7? Just want to make sure I am not missing targets.
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F75LTD2 Discrimiation question about nulling out?
- Thread starter nalc472
- Start date
If the disc is set to 25, it shouldn't sound off on any TID 25 or below. Once I found a V nickel fused to a square nail in a nail infested old site. The sea of nails was coming in around 7-8, nice constant low tone, and then I got the mid tone on the V nickel, but it only had a TID of 18, just barely above iron. I decided to dig it, and was pleasantly surprised when I saw it was a V nickel and even more surprised when I saw it was fused to the square nail. Personally I try to run zero discrimination whenever at all possible as the machine will TID better and has less propensity to ID non-ferrous targets are ferrous, it works, but it can get noisey in iron infested sites, but IMHO you want to hear everything at those sites anyhow, as non-ferrous TID's will be out of the norm with all the co-located iron.
REVIER
Well-known member
On my F70 this happens too.
They are fleeting and don't repeat so usually false signals thrown off by surrounding iron or other junk.
Could be bleed through from actual iron you pass over, just because you tell your detector you don't want to know or see any info about these lower numbered targets doesn't mean the detector doesn't see them or can't be affected by them.
Some signals can make it through once in awhile but again they usually don't repeat.
When I hunt in disc I always keep the second mode in all metal and easily switch back and forth to check some targets just to be sure.
They are fleeting and don't repeat so usually false signals thrown off by surrounding iron or other junk.
Could be bleed through from actual iron you pass over, just because you tell your detector you don't want to know or see any info about these lower numbered targets doesn't mean the detector doesn't see them or can't be affected by them.
Some signals can make it through once in awhile but again they usually don't repeat.
When I hunt in disc I always keep the second mode in all metal and easily switch back and forth to check some targets just to be sure.
I know at 25 disc I will not hear Iron. I just do not want to be nulling out on iron and missing good targets. On the e-trac if you discriminate out say iron it can null out and you miss a coin in the same spot due to it nulling out. I believe the F75 sees past the iron and hits a sound and number when it hears a good target that is not discriminated out.
REVIER
Well-known member
The only time I can remember any nulling at all except on an overload and that is a very rare thing.
I do think this platform is one of the best at hunting in iron...the best I ever swung, anyway.
I figured out 2 way to find great targets hidden in crazy amounts of iron, one using disc but set very low, the other using all metal.
Both ways took practice to learn but it was time well spent.
I do think this platform is one of the best at hunting in iron...the best I ever swung, anyway.
I figured out 2 way to find great targets hidden in crazy amounts of iron, one using disc but set very low, the other using all metal.
Both ways took practice to learn but it was time well spent.
MarkCZ
Well-known member
A lot of things happens when different conductive targets are in close proximity of each other.
close and they sometimes get averaged by the processor, take a quarter and a nickel and stack them together, the nickel isn't likely to read a nickel. nor is the quarter likely to read a quarter.
Another thing that happens sometimes is if two different conductors are next to each other and your sweep direction passes across both targets, you may only get the high tone if the direction of the sweep passes over it first and the lower tone target going the other direction.
Detectors.
Lets just say it takes a lot of time in the field and a lot of time swinging the same detector to learn what the detector is trying to tell you. No detector is near 100% in its id'in targets outside of perfect conditions, air test with single objects is one way.
They are a lot of detectors that the target ID (meter) is doing something a little different than the audio report, with many detectors the meter is actually all metal, while the audio is discriminated. In any case any metallic object that the search coils passes over is still processed by the detection circuits and the more targets that are under the search at one time the more difficult it is for the detector to sort them out, many times a coin spill will sound more like a broken trash signal when its just the detector giving off multiple tones. There is a difference, most of the times a coin spill won't have the broken scratchy response like the trash targets do.
Mark
close and they sometimes get averaged by the processor, take a quarter and a nickel and stack them together, the nickel isn't likely to read a nickel. nor is the quarter likely to read a quarter.
Another thing that happens sometimes is if two different conductors are next to each other and your sweep direction passes across both targets, you may only get the high tone if the direction of the sweep passes over it first and the lower tone target going the other direction.
Detectors.
Lets just say it takes a lot of time in the field and a lot of time swinging the same detector to learn what the detector is trying to tell you. No detector is near 100% in its id'in targets outside of perfect conditions, air test with single objects is one way.
They are a lot of detectors that the target ID (meter) is doing something a little different than the audio report, with many detectors the meter is actually all metal, while the audio is discriminated. In any case any metallic object that the search coils passes over is still processed by the detection circuits and the more targets that are under the search at one time the more difficult it is for the detector to sort them out, many times a coin spill will sound more like a broken trash signal when its just the detector giving off multiple tones. There is a difference, most of the times a coin spill won't have the broken scratchy response like the trash targets do.
Mark
Rob in (Ca)
Active member
The F75"s lighting fast recovery speed .......there's
No time for any nulling
No time for any nulling
still looking 52
Well-known member
Your going to miss some good targets because they are hidden by trash and the only way I know of to get your percentages up is by sweeping an area at different angles and then there will still be some good targets you can't find. My personal philosophy is if you find a good target then grid that area off in every direction(north,south, east,west and diagonally). You can't do this kind of search in a normal routine, you'll waste to much time but once you are in a good search area and have already found a good target then it's time to slow down and do the grid routine. Just my personal opinion .
indy durtdigger
Active member
What sound settings are you using? I have settled on using 3 tones or 2F and run my disc. at about fifteen and still get the iron grunt even with TID of two or three.
Coilfisher
New member
nalc472 said:
The F-75 architecture is SUPPOSED to up-average non-ferrous targets in the presence of iron and iron oxides.
You might want to confirm this with consistent & solid users of the machine here if that is the case.
REVIER
Well-known member
Coilfisher said:
Now this is something I did not know and a very interesting fact...I believe it is true because of a few experiences I have had and it sure explains a few things.
In a park using the big DD coil I ran over a gold ring that was nestle right between a large piece of deep rusty iron to the right a few inches away and a small piece of rusty iron a couple of inches to the left.
I saw a lot of jumping behavior from high to low but as I made some short quick side to side swipes I kept seeing 51-53 numbers popping up and they were very fleeting but consistent. This got me curious so I opened a hole and got a big surprise.
Out of the ground the ring dropped 10 numbers to a solid 41.
I thought those false high tone signals sometimes thrown off by rusty iron up-averaged this ring at the time.
At site with a huge amount of crazy iron from very tiny to huge there were iron signals almost every inch and very few holes opened here that didn't have multiple pieces of iron in it along with any good targets I came across.
Using both all metal and then low disc in mono tone I spent a lot of time here learning to look for just blocks of higher numbers that flashed by on my screen because there were never any solid high coin numbers here at all because of the site conditions.
Nothing made sense at first but after hours of practice I got good at noticing those higher blocks of numbers flash by and if they repeated from at least 2 directions I dug those.
These signals again were up-averaged in their VDI numbers in the ground.
In time I ended up with some very old wheaties, one IH, an old merc and a walking liberty have all hidden so well nobody else that ever hunted this site had a clue this much was there, including me with other detectors in many past hunts.
I went back using higher disc like you and found a few more wheaties using the same technique and also in other iron infested sites and it works well but again all higher numbers than usual on high conductive targets.
Now I am hunting in some extremely mineralized southern soil at sites also loaded with iron and the deeper the targets the higher the numbers seem to be.
Deep silver nickels are coming in at dime to quarter levels but so did a buff I just found.
Wheaties and silver dimes are coming in at quarter areas and higher, a silver dollar came in at 98-99.
All were found in the presence of iron or iron infused soil and as I said this up averaging thing would explain a lot.
Just like how I can change nickels to high tones in 3H and 4H, if this is a feature designed into the T2/F70/F75 platform once again I pronounce the designers and engineers geniuses because I have seen how handy this feature really is when hunting around iron.
I have a gold ring and several older and silver coins in my collection that prove it.
88junior
Well-known member
In thick iron I listen to it all in zero disc and let the tones tell me when to dig. I run it this way so I know my machine isn't nulling out a good target. I have used a ton of machines in my 22 years of detecting and this has always been the way I approach iron laden sites.
Bradley137
New member
Run the FA process with the 1n audio in the heavy trash. Push up the disciminate to 25 but only if you need to. Run sensitivity as high as stability allows. Usually 80-90 shuts down the false chatter. Dig every target that gives a repeatable audio response because iron should be muted. You'll find good targets among the junk if they're there. You'll be surprised what others didn't dig because of the masking.