Fisher and the New F75 LTD

[Low-Boy/LCPM]

Now that the cats is out of the bag and we know more about the LTD and it is being tested by three hunters that I know of...the boost mode seems to work no so much for depth as it does for unmasking more targets...It lights up targets that we seemed to have missed and that could be like going to a hunted out place with a different detector and finding targets that have been missed..That has happened to me...But for the price of the New F75 which is just like the old F75 except for the two new programs and faster code...Why not address the DE mode and JE mode and PF mode and give us more or a different coil or work on EMI even a switch that we can turn off and on...For all of that money and I am getting one ASAP it would be nice to have a little more to show for the price.

I know minelab did the same and made a few changes on last years explorer and they guys that got it liked it but I would have hoped that Fisher would do this a bit different. I have not heard from Bill Lad on this machine even his thoughts....Fisher should have not left him out of the loop...Oh well it is the same way of running your business fisher as the rest of the competition..I am not saying that to give one of the best machines an upgrade and even give us a better machine is not a great thing..it would be nice to see a little more that was addressed even maybe a tighter nickel VDI or a way to deal with junk a bit better..

 

[iliketodigit]

I have been reading the reports with great interest.
One thing that does get me thinking is like you say the fact that in BP mode quite a few more targets will be "lit up".
This will especially be the case if the unit is being driven hard.
The original F75 produced a lot of signals = noise when in JE mode and could be quite fatiguing mentally.
With even more targets being picked up what will the cost be in human terms, is there even more noise that from a human tolerance level will distract from the LTD's better performance and cause us to back off the throttle??
To illustrate, is too much geforce a good thing??

 

[BuckeyeBrad]

You might want to go back and re-read my original post about the F-75 LTD and pay close attention to the part where I talk about my experience in the noisy coin hunting applications. I learned how to adapt and quantify the net benefit of using one of the boost modes in that situation. I'm telling ya, it's NOT like having a sensitivity control that goes past 99. The signal to noise is improved much better than what it would be for the same increase in depth if you could duplicate the same with an extended range sensitivity control.

 

[marcomo]

If you love the previous generation F75 and don't want to upgrade to the LTD, keep your current F75 and it will still be the same unit.

I can't understand all the bellyaching about not offering an upgrade on old F75s. R&D costs money, you can't blame FT for wanting to sell a better unit as a stand alone product. According to Nasa Tom and Buckeye Brad the LTD is a major improvement over the old generation F75.

Nasa Tom said he found 141 more good targets in an area he had previously pounded with the old F75. Pay the piper if you want the LTD or keep the old F75 and you've lost nothing from what you had.

 

[dave5710]

Where can I read what Nasa Tom said?

 

[Shambler]

google Dankowski Detectors and go to his forums

 

[Low-Boy/LCPM]

Yes but no! If you love saving history and have a hunted out sight would it not be grand to uncover what your old F75 missed. If you follow Nasa Tom you will learn that you have to hunt in a dics lower then you hunted with the older F75..

Dave & John,

Spent 13 hours (on Sunday) with Ltd at 3 different/independent sites. Lessons
learned:

1st site = This is a antebellum home with slow sink-rate dirt that is moderately
nail infested. EMI was fairly high.....considering I could audibly hear the
transformer humming on the utility pole approx 45-feet away. The lesson learned
here is: If/when conditions warrant a reduction in Sens and a increase in Disc
to mitigate EMI.......the add'l advantages of the Ltd are then rendered useless.
This is also to say; If a older Gen F75 required a reduction in performance
settings due to local EMI conditions; subsequently, the new Ltd will require the
SAME performance reduction in order to ascertain the SAME stability. The
performance of the Ltd at this particular site would be/is the same exact
performance that would normally be achievable with the old Gen F75. Net gain =
Zero.
.....Where EMI is fairly minimal, the Ltd is unsurpassed.

2nd site = This is a dozed/turned railroad spur/station. A absolute nightmare
due to the volume of trash.....would be similar/aka to a car junk-yard. This is
where I decided to reduce Sens to '80' and increase Disc to '6' w/tone options.
All things considered, the Ltd was a stupendous performer in this type of
environ. Other detectorists (of whom accompanied) were using other types of
detectors so as to reduce detector-to-detector interference. In short order,
they borrowed/acquired my back-up F75's.....switched to different Freq's and
also achieved very good success. The Ltd was exceptionally stable......and found
many items of significance......in what would....otherwise.....be a detector
shutdown/'off-limits' area.

3rd site = Second Seminole Indian War (1834 - 1836) site. Many (learning curve)
valuable lessons acquired here. This area is high in iron trash. The last 4
times that I hunted here with the original F75........yielded no more (zero)
non-ferrous items. On the orig F75.... Disc '1', Sens '99', PF, GB '90' & 4-tone
were my settings. This became important.....as with the Ltd, I placed all
settings to exactly the same.....with one exception; Disc on the Ltd would be at
'6' (and of course 'bp' mode). NO JOY. No non-ferrous targets located.
Eventually I would (incrementally) start lowering Disc......detecting for approx
10 minutes in each lower increment. No non-ferrous targets surfaced (yet).
NOTHING happened....UNTIL I finally hit a Disc setting of '1'. NOW my Ltd
settings finally matched the settings that I previously hunted with old Gen
F75....(except the Ltd has always been in 'bp' mode). Seven non-ferrous targets
surfaced in a 30' x 30' area.
Now..... hunting this exact same 30' x 30' area again..... but with Disc on
'0'..... the ground lit up with 91 more non-ferrous targets.
Lesson learned here: If an area has already been hunted/sanitized with older Gen
F75..... new targets can be located with new unit... AS LONG AS settings match
OR EXCEED the old F75 hunted settings (with the Ltd in new 'bp' mode)....with
one major difference (attribute); -- Of all 91 non-Fe targets recovered....I
lowered Sens to differing levels.....and nearly never lost a target at a
'reasonably' lower Sens setting; suffice to say; Disc MUST remain on '0' (in my
case...due to prev F75 hunted-out scenario). This is to say; there is Disc
dependency.....but certainly not much Sens requirement.

I am continuing to find higher ID resolution at depth. I have noticed zero
difference in battery consumption......and am continuing to notice the 'bp' mode
trumping the 'je' mode....especially in relic hunting applications.
I need to revise a previous statement; depth gain of this new 'bp' unit is
approx 0.2" on a dime in my dirt.....but in the real world, there is a marked
depth gain on very small targets; tiny buttons...air-rifle BB's etc........

In only 3 lengthy hunts; It is easy for me to conclude the new software tools
are a major attribute. Reverse the depth gauge...and this one is a substantial
keeper.

CONGRATULATIONS!

Sincerely,

Tom

 

[dave5710]

Thank you Shambler, and Thank you Tom

 

[iliketodigit]

Hi Brad, yes i did read the original post however the comparison checks that you did were DP v DE.
I would have thought that a more accurate benchmark for the amount of increased performance would have been DP v JE since JE represents the hottest setting on the original F75.
To compare one of the tamer settings against the new super hot setting cannot be a fair and reasonable test.
I still think that there would be a marked performance increase with DP v JE.
My concern was would the increased performance of the DP mode make it unbearable chatter/noise wise for sustained use, thus making it a pointless unusable feature.
The answer from what you have said is a definite NO, you simply set it at a hot and bearable level and you will see a big performance increase without compromising user friendliness which ticks another big LTD desire ability box.

Thanks.

 

[BuckeyeBrad]

I did and continue to do testing comparing the BP (which I assume you meant when you said DP as DP is delta pitch and is a tone selection) to ALL the original modes. I understand your point about JE seemingly being the hottest of the original modes. Frankly, I see it as hotter on smaller (especially lower conductive) items but not equally across the board as far as conductivity and size is concerned. One of the narrowest margins of difference between JE and BP is WHEN THE TARGET IS SMALL such as a .22 cal bullet. If the target is a 45 cal ball, the "gap", being the advantage of BP, widens considerably. The other thing that I couldn't do (and one tester in particular is doing) was to try and have a baseline where while in an original mode to run (actually hunt) at 99/0. That is so far and above what I can run that it's virtually meaningless to me and the conditions I encounter. Here's the bottom line. The ONLY valid test that will fit each and every individual's needs is the one that they themselves will (or won't) do with an LTD when they choose to and figure out how to get their hands on one because that's the only way to reproduce and hence address their particular experience and skill, their soil and interference conditions, their desired targets types at their actual depths, and their tolerance of stability or instability in the name of "extra" depth. My main criteria was relatively equal acceptable stability and then interpolate the advantage of the new boost modes over the old ones. I did that and I'm tickled to death with my LTD and the increase in performance it provides me.

 

[Low-Boy/LCPM]

From what Nasa Tom wrote you have to go in and use a lower disc then you did with the older F75.

 

[iliketodigit]

Hi Brad,
Quote.
"The ONLY valid test that will fit each and every individual's needs is the one that they themselves will (or won't) do with an LTD when they choose to and figure out how to get their hands on one because that's the only way to reproduce and hence address their particular experience and skill, their soil and interference conditions, their desired targets types at their actual depths, and their tolerance of stability or instability in the name of "extra" depth."

What an excellent way to put it, in my book that must be "The bottom line assessment of the decade".
I did mean BP it's me that's going Dee Pee!!

Many thanks for your efforts and sharing the results, keep on testing!!

 

[Low-Boy/LCPM]

A lot has to do with the user if you get someone that has never had a F75 then they get the new one it may not find them more then they have found before because you have to understand the F75 old or new to be able to hunt with it...