Goldquest SS..modified..stock...should you buy one...should it be modified...what the heck is going on...well read this!

[Anonymous]

I posted below a report on the GQ with about5 mods done to it to test some performance enhancements.
Now reporting this will always open a can of worms....and I mean worms like thos big sand worms in the DUNE series.
SO let us start with the stock GQ...how is it REALY for gold nuggets...no mods...no BS.
The stock GQ is a very good gold nugget machine. It will fit the bill for people who have a VLF nugget machine and need the PI for those situations where a VLF would just be too painful to use...bedrock..black and..ironstone...etc.
It has great sensitvity on nuggets from about 3-4 grains and up. I have said before that unmodofied it has some problems at thise and below....and that was with my machine...and it has an 11" coil. I have never tried it stock with an 8" as none were in stock.
SO LESSON ONE>>>>get a GQ with an 8" too for nugget hunting....the GP extreme guys are finding those small nuggets with their 8" mono....learn from them. I just had no choice. But realise that I am having same sensitivity and even better when I use an 11" and they use an 11".....so apples to apples.
Back to the stock GQ.
From 5 grains and up it is pretty well comparable to a GP...give or take....you can always find ground that will favor one or the other. But overall depth on nuggets at or above that threshold size it is solid.
The GQ is also predictable. It performs the same way the same time in the same spot. So after some use hotrocks that do trip it up will always sound and act the same. That was how I found that beautiful copper ore sample. Had I been using the VLF I would have assumed it was falsing...but the GQ is so predictable on a hotrock that I knew this was different. There was no outward ore present and it looked like all the other rocks in the area...but the GQ said it was different and it was right. It just took three blows of a sledge to find out.
As far as as ground balance on the stock GQ..well that is compensated by the SAT and it does a good job of helping out. It does take about a day to get used to the GQ but after that it is...predictable. I have no problems with the normal ground feedback.
This is the stock GQ...it is very very good as a nugget machine. If you have a VLF only...YOU NEED A GQ. It will not set you back 3000.00 bucks.
Now the GP Extreme is the bees knees but it is 3k too. But a GQ compined with your current VLF is more adaptable...or atleast will be stiff competition.
The only area I have seen the GP blow everyone away in is stupid small flakes. The kindas tuff you should get panning. Now if you want find sub grain flakes all day long...get the GP..or in good ground..whip out that VLF. But do not expect an $800.00 GQ to find those sub 1 grain flakes like a MAchine that cost 4 times that.
Now what about them darn mods. O.k.....well here it goes.
There were 5 mods that I did. Each one was done by itself and tested in actuall use. Two of these mods were not that noticeable as far as any real improvement that I could see.
However three of them were great and improved the detection of nuggets down to about 1-2 grains...just depends on nugget shape.
What these mods are....well......ain't gonna tell yah. Why?....because they are proprietory...they are not mine. They came from Reg SNiff and one from Eric Foster. They are like secret nugget patches that someone shared with me. I don't have the right to divulge them....under oath.
Now Reg, Mr. Bill can do these mods if they choose to. However one must understand that modifying someone elses machine is risky. If they ruin one machine it would take 3-4 more mods to recoop the cost. So one must understand why we are wary about that.
The purpose of the mods is too see, of course, what may work in the future. Future of what you ask? Hell I don't know...I am not Eric. Maybe an improvement to a version 2 of the GQ or maybe a different machine...maybe REG or BIll doing mods...or maybe squat.
You see...there has to be a gain in the impovements that either justifies the risk doin it or the cost of a production change. Can't answer that question in one month of testing by some ex relic hunter sweating the AZ desert. But I can provide feedback to all three of these guys. They will decide what to do with it then.
But you say...you gotta have a GQ and you want it modified. Well I say....NO YOU DON"T. You need a stock GQ with an 8" coil. Get out and use it for a month ortwo and learn it well.
After this time you may or may not need or want one...some or all the mods. You see each mod affects a different portion of the machine and some will not need or want em all. And all mods may not be able to be done...some are risky to the person doing it as far as ruining the unit...it is a tight fit in that circuit board.
More so....when the machine is modified it is taken to the operational limit. If you ran a GQ modified without ever using it stock you would never know how it should work when it is not pumped up. If you use for awhile then had it jacked up...now you know what to expect if cranking up a mod while hunting has created a situation that is unstable due to the ground or whatever.
The simple analagy is this. Learn to ride the motorcyle before you put the nitrous sytem on.... <img src="/metal/html/grin.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":grin">
Now to close this out. I can not speak for Bill or Reg and say whether they will offer any or all of these mods. That is up to them and if it was up to me...it would be on a case by case basis. Once you mod a machine it is yours and can be tough to sell. The person modifying it can only gaurentee that mod will work....not that you will like it or that it will not have some side affect you may not like in certain ground. Now I will say that of the three mods I like.....two can be switched off..so you can switch to a stock mode.
But it is like Bungee jumping. I gaurentee the bungee will not break...and that when I push you...you will fall and recoil back. But I will not gaurentee you will enjoy it...pull a muscle..or have some PTSD issue with you life. That is you risk...now shut up and jump.....well pay me first..then jump....cya.
So for those that are interested in a GQ..get one. It is well worth the money. By the time you have used it and found out if it has limitations you would like to address. Reg and Bill may have figured out what to do with the mods.
Scott

 

[Anonymous]

I have question Scott. Did you ever test the GQ on larger gold nuggets or say a Man's Wedding Ring either before or after the 3 mods that did make a difference? The reason I ask is that sometimes when you improve a PI on one end of the conductivity range you lose on the other. I don't know if that is true of the GQ or not.
It's great that you were able to get the GQ to detect nuggets in the 1-2 grain region with the stock 11" coil. That is a vast improvement and I am sure no easy task especially if you were able to maintain stable operation while doing this. These mods take the the GQ to the next level. Hopefully the mods that did help will be incorporated into the next version of the Goldquest or will be made available to those poeple who already have GQ's and would like the ability to find the small gold.
Thanks for the Report Scott!!!
HH
Beachcomber

 

[Anonymous]

I did test it on larger nuggets. One of the guys we hut with has a 7 gram nugget he found 4 weeks ago. I have tested it several times on that nugget before and after the mods.
Obviously I was seeing how much MORE depth I could get. In the end I got the same depth over all. I did get, with a certain mod, a stronger response at depth but not a huge increase in distance. It was more like a boost in audio but not.
SO there was no loss and maybe only a 5-10% depth gain post mod..if that. The gQ was already super hot onlare stuff.
Scott

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Beachcomber,
The mods are mainly to enhance the signals from the small gold. This is where they have the greatest effect. Signals from a 3 grain nugget went from a weak signal to a very distinct signal. Now, 1 and 2 grain nuggets produce a signal about like the 3 grain did before.
One should realize that not all nuggets react the same, so there will still be some in the very small size that may not produce a signal. Fortunately, all of mine do.
One mod will increase the sensitivity much like a pair of amplified headphones do, so there is a very slight increase from this mod, but it isn't significant. It just lets the GQ run at full throttle in areas where noise isn't a problem. In noisy areas, it doesn't help that much.
I personally, haven't seen any major depth increase on many ring size objects. It might help a little on the very thin gold rings but I haven't tried it.
I have tried several different size nuggets and have experienced no negative side effects on the larger ones. So, no ground has been lost.
The bottom line is, most coin and ring hunters would see little if any improvement with the mods.
Reg

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Reg! I was a little concerned. A few years back when a PI was tuned to better on gold it would lose the ability to detect silver coins and jewelry or at least lose depth on them. If the PI was set for the higher conductive Silver targets it would lose the small gold. Electronics is a balancing act. It's tough to gain in one area without losing in another. It seems that the mods have been able to create a gain without any noticeable scrifice!
There is actually a lot of gold jewelry out there that is smaller and harder to detect than the thin gold rings. It's really amazing just how much of it there is!!! All the way down into the sub-grain range(the smallest piece of gold I found in a lake last year was 0.6 grains) so a detector that can detect gold down close to that region and still hunt where a VLF can't is really great. Especially if it can be done with the 11" stock coil.
Thanks
HH
Beachcomber

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Scott! I had suspected that the GQ was hot on the larger stuff already based on the depths that Mr Bill had said that it could detect a nickel. The trick is to get the both the small and the large gold <img src="/metal/html/smile.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=""> <img src="/metal/html/smile.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=""> <img src="/metal/html/smile.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=""> Which I am sure is no easy task and which shows just how well Eric designs his detectors.
HH
Beachcomber

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Scott,
Interesting post you have here. First, I would like to say the objective of most of the changes has been to enhance the GQ to detect the very small gold. Some enhancements are a carryover from starting way back when with a Beachscan.
Scott has been sort of a test case for the various mods and I want to thank him for his willingness to be a participant. I wanted an unbiased opinion of the mods and he is quite knowledgeable in electronics so he could tackle them. It is easy for me to say I like this mod or that mod, but I wanted another opinion outside of family members.
I guess, you could call this obsession to try to enhance such a great detector, a guy thing. I just can't leave well enough alone and the weakness I saw with any PI was the difficulty to detect the real small nuggets.
Scott is correct, the GQ will work very well as it comes stock. The limitations, as mentioned before are the ground signals. To minimize them, it is a matter of finding the right autotune or SAT setting, sweeping slowly and keeping the coil as level as possible.
In many areas where I have hunted, the ground response is't that bad. Just hunt slowly with the SAT cranked up a ways and one can hunt quite comfortably.
Scott is also correct, a person shouldn't be afraid of buying a GQ right now. Then a person should spend time getting to know the detector. The key is to not be afraid of using the SAT. Air tests may show a slight decrease in signal strength but I have never found a low flying nugget. When buried, any slight variations in the ground signal will easily cause a weak signal to be missed. Sweeping slowly minimizes this as does increasing the SAT.
Now, one should not expect super duper things from the mods. They are small enhancements that make the GQ kick butt on the smaller stuff.
There is something about knowing you can detect nuggets smaller than I care to find that makes the detector more appealing.
My communications with a couple of other GQ owners including one which I tried with hands on, indicated they could detect small nuggets down in the 1 to 2 grain range. The one GQ I tried myself could detect my 1.1 grain nugget. So, some can do this already. In fact, I suspect most can. I also suspect that noise is the limiting factor so trying to test them in town my prove to be difficult.
One should also remember, that the signal from a 1 to 2 grain nugget is not an ear blaster of a signal. The depth of detection is limited to 1" to 2" max. The signal will be very weak and can be missed if the sweep speed is too fast or the coil is too high. So one should remember that keeping the coil very close to the ground is important.
The problem is to separate the weak signal from the ground. When I tested the GQ, I found I actually got a better signal from my small nugget with the SAT at about the mid position. A faster SAT sharpens the weaker responses so they are easier to hear.
If you have gotten tired of me mentioning the SAT, I am sorry, but it is very important to the detection of the small stuff.
For me, the DD coil works the best. I find it reduces the ground response and also sharpens the target signal even more. However, the detection zone is quite narrow so one has to sweep slowly and more thoroughly when using this type of coil. There isn't much of a problem with larger nuggets, but the little critters produce a very brief response.
Working down int the 10 usec range has been a real challenge to get things to work right and remain solid. The compliments go to Eric for building a detector that will work in that range. Any delay much more than the 10 usec makes it impossible to detect the small nuggets.
Will the mods be available such as a DD coil? Yes, I am sure they will be. Right now, I am waiting for feedback from Scott.
My experience with the DD coil has been great, but not perfect. I find this type of coil reduces the ground signals and sharpens the target signals. It also seems to reduce the noise level.
Now, on the down side, this type of coil is more sensitive to vibration and impact. What I have experienced is bumping the coil on a rock or even the ground can cause a false signal. AT least, this is what happens with my coils.
I am not sure why, but this problem seems to be more noticeable with my smallest DD coil. Since I have encapsulated the windings in epoxy, the problem has reduced but not been eliminated. My larger coils do not seem to be as sensitive to impacts. This has me a little puzzled.
I have had a couple of emails asking whether the mods will be available. I have decided, I will do some in the interim. However, right now I am waiting for more feedback.
As for the cost, I haven't set that yet, but most of that will be tied up in shipping and the coil. Coils are a real pain to do and keep everything in alignment. Even finding the wire that will work best in the coil has proven to be a challenge. Fortunately, I have learned a lot from trying to build one for Scott.
Reg

 

[Anonymous]

We have to be very sure before initiating new changes to a product, that it will continue to perform in all areas of operation as it did before the changes. We can not sacrifice reliability, and functionality to make a improvement in another area. It needs to retain the same basic simplicity that the Goldquest SS enjoys now. The Goldquest SS has a edge over all others out there today, such as lightweight, ease of operation, and great sensitivity, and the ability to satisfy the needs of both nugget hunters, and jewelry hunters. We need to be real certain that that this is retained before making any permanent changes. We also need to make sure that the changes are applicable to all places the unit will be operated in, not just one location in the country.
I share the same with Scott, that one should defiantly use the Goldquest SS first, before considering any changes to it. By not using the Goldquest SS before having the changes made, it would be very difficult for you to realize any problems caused by using the modifications are in actuality caused by them. Other words you wouldn

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Reg,
Thanks for going into more detail about the mods and especially about the DD coil it's benefits and pitfalls.
As I was reading about the microphonic problems with the DD coil I remember either reading in one of Eric's Posts or possibly talking with MR. Bill about the effort that Eric puts into making his coils just so that they won't have the microphonics problem and because of how critical they are to the Goldquest's ability to run in the 10us range. But what also came to mind is that even though you encased the coil windings in epoxy which would prevent the coils themselves from moving there is the possibility the individual turns of wire of the coils aren't wound tight enough and that they are vibrating against one another or agains the shield just enough to cause the effect that you are talking about. I don't know if you have ever tried taking a transformer apart but when they wind a transformer they use some type of glue that glues all the individual turns of wire to one another which definitely prevents any type of movement of the wire. You may have done something like this but since you didn't mention it I thought I would bring it up.
I know what you mean about always wanting to make things better especially detectors as it is a affliction I suffer from myself <img src="/metal/html/biggrin.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt="">
Thanks
HH
Beachcomber

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Beachcomber,
I have a little experience with transformers of all sizes, from the smallest pulse transformer to a 40 mega-watt arc furnace transformer. What to hear a rumble, just listen to them touch an arc in an electric furnace. Want to hear an eerie sound? Just be in the room when they close the vacuum contactors and energize the primary with 34.5KV.
Now, I have given thought to the microphonics idea and yes, I have "glued" the windings together. The interesting thing I have found is the larger the coil, the less of a problem this false signal becomes and all are using the same winding techniques.
Here is an interesting point, my largest coil is about 11" by 16". The windings were built the same as other coils, but for test purposes, they were laced together at the crossover points, and then simply held in place by wedging them with rigid foam strips. They were not even glued down. Now, this coil was bumped, banged, bounced and about anything I want to do adverse to it and it didn't produce false signals. Oh yeah, it would also readily detect my 3 grain test nugget with about the same sensitivity as my smaller coil, but seem to add at least an inch more depth to a nickel in an air test.
One other interesting point, this largest coil seemed to produce the least amount of ground signal.
Now, in all honesty, I do need to go back and work with it some more since my hands on time with this large coil is very limited.
Reg

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Reg, I have never been around transformers that large but it does sound like it would be an interesting experience!!!!
In a strange sort of way the things that are happening actually make sense especially when it comes to ground noise. If you think about it the smaller coil which should be better able to detect the small gold should also be better able to see even slight changes in the ground characteristics that a larger coil either wouldn't see or would average out since it was seeing a much larger area of ground. This may also be related to the microphonics on the small coil since it is also more sensitive to small signal changes.
There was a post on this Forum that had a chart of target size vs coil size and it seemed that for PI's large coils in the 11" to 15" range were still very good on small gold and that for larger gold targets like a Class Ring or a large Man's Wedding ring a coil in the 20" range would produce maximum detection depth. Your 11" X 16" maybe very close to an ideal size to cover both the small gold down to 3 grains as well as getting more depth on the larger gold targets. All this while still reducing the ground noise <img src="/metal/html/smile.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt="">
JMHO
HH
Beachcomber

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Beachcomber,
I think that is the right way of looking at it. A large coil will be looking at a greater area of ground, and while the total signal level will be higher, it is taking an average over that area. Small localised anomalies, such as hotrocks, will tend to be suppressed. A small coil on the other hand, will, because of its more concentrated field, give a bigger signal from these localised anomalies, whilst have less total material to average over. You may have to speed up the SAT with a smaller coil to help counteract this. However, the object signal will also be sharper, so you shouldn

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Eric,
If I am right you had even posted something about the shielding moving in relation to the coil windings causing a problem. In fact I think I even remember someone mentioning a thin foil tape that could be wrapped around the coil winding to shield it.
This is a great Forum where a lot of thoughts and ideas get passed back and forth to the benefit of all!!!!!
I'll be looking forward to reading of your exploits in the world of "DD" coils <img src="/metal/html/smile.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt="">
Thanks Again!!!!!!
HH
Beachcomber

 

[Anonymous]

Scoot and I hunt together frequently and the GQ is a very nice machine...
After a few mods Scott made it was geeting depth as good as the GP Extreme on about a 1 gram nugget at several inches...I am not saying it is equal to a GP Extreme because one test does not prove this...there are so many variables invloved in a real in-depth product comparison...
Scott has excellent skill with a detctor...
And is an electronics whiz...
When he first got the GQ stock we visited a spot with very hot ground and the GQ was quite useless...The GP would hum right through it no problem...However after a few mods Scott has the vast majority of hot ground issues resolved from what I see...
All the ingredients are in place for Scott to be one of the best Arizona nugget hunters around...
Rod Fitzhugh
Arizona Gold Prospectors
www.arizonagoldprospectors.com