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Goldquest's Response to Iron

A

Anonymous

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Eric,Bill, Reg and all,
I was wondering since the Goldquest is tuned for gold (short time constant I assume), wouldn't it noticeable when you sweep across Iron with it's longer time constant?
Randy Seden
 
Hi Randy,
Unfortunately, iron also has an initial fast decay which then stretches out to longer times. The receiver would need a second channel to determine this. Even then, it would not be a reliable indication of iron.
Eric.
 
Eric,
That being the case how about adding averaging like the new Whites and Tesero VLF's have . That makes the most sense along with the second channel as you sweep back and forth getting slightly different aspects to the object in question. Maybe a new addition for the Goldquest II? I'm sure Dave J. or some of the other Designers on this forum already have the Algorithm on file. That feature would make your detector make all the others look like old Model T Fords. I noticed that the new Tesero and Whites coin machines just came out with this technology.
Randy Seden
 
I am supposing that what Randy S. is referring to, is a target ID system which, in successive passes over the target, integrates the individual ID's to "average them out". There are a variety of ways to do this. The White's "Signagraph" system is probably the most sophisticated. Unlike the other systems I am aware of, the Signagraph takes several ID samples during a single sweep over a target, such that an irregularly shaped target produces a "scatter" of ID's, whereas something with good shape symmetry like a coin or ring produces tightly grouped ID's.
I'm unclear as to what this would have to do with the Goldquest, which as I understand it has no discrimination, much less visual target ID.
As Mr. Foster points out, demodulating several different delays and comparing the signals would provide a means for discrimination and target ID, but reliable separation of ferrous from nonferrous targets in a mono loop PI is an elusive goal.
That having been said, unreliable iron discrimination/identification can be a lot better than none at all, and I believe that in the future we'll see more emphasis on iron disc/ID in PI's.
Back in the mid-80's I built a PI that acted like a VLF/TR discriminator at poptab reject, except that unlike a VLF/TR it was unaffected by mineralization. It was really neat-- on a trashy mineralized beach, where the best motion VLF units would only discriminate about 2-3 inches deep, this PI simply ignored all the trash-- all I dug was coins. But.... it wasn't very sensitive (the consequence of having to subtract signals to get discrimination/maghemite balance); and, since it rejected aluminum trash, it would have been useless for relic hunting, or for coinshooting in places other than the <IMG SRC="/forums/images/flag.jpg" BORDER=0 ALT="USA">, where most of the desirable targets fall in or below the aluminum poptab range.
--Dave J.
 
Thanks Dave, I was just getting around to answering. Eric, are you familiar with how a "Lookup Table" works whereby the computer compares the values of the return signal with those stored in memory and if they fall within a certain range would qualify as a certain object?
Take a look at Anthony Barringer's Patent# 4,506,225 as that's EXACTLY what needs to be done-what a concept! .
I still would like to see more work done in the Frequency domain as you get far more information (i.e., the frequencies of the return signals)than looking in the Time Domain. Just my opinion though from working with RF for the past 27 years as I've never tried it yet.
Randy Seden
 
Lookup tables are often a good way to do things, but the usefulness of the output of a lookup table is limited by the quality of data available to the input. In the case of metal detector, many things, especially ground minerals, conspire against the quality of the data. The unpredictable nature of targets themselves also conspires to defeat accurate target ID.
--Dave J.
 
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