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GTI 1500 with Sunray GI-1

ewemule

New member
HI ! New to this site and pretty new to MD. Got my GTI 1500 on 10-4-08. First detector ever and love it. Two questions.
Is there a difference between all-metal and zero discrimination ? I'm thinking yes but don't know. Second .....my small operation book under the "last mode" section says "Pressing the imaging touch pad,then, provides a third, all-metal mode. How does this work ?
Thanks in advance and I'm ready for Spring. I also have a small test garden set up in our shop. It's nice to find a site that has a very active Garrett section. Will try some searches and will appreciate some direction. Happy New Year.

Marty
 
Zero is not quite the same as all metal but close and the imaging feature operates in all metal thus your third all metal mode.

Bill
 
Is there a thread that may define them both and discuss their differences ? It looks like the GTI 2500 has it's own separate all-metal mode button along with PP/imaging.
Marty
 
The 1500 doesn't have a true all metal search mode, which is a mode where the discrimination circuits are cut out of the signal path. As you have seen the only mode that lets you see all metal is the zero discrimination mode (which shows up as zero on the display). Having the discrimination circuit in the signal path, even if it is set at zero, usually causes the loss of a little bit of depth.

While the pinpoint or imaging mode does show all metal without a discrimination circuit in the signal path it is not very practical to use this mode for general searching as it is difficult to keep the imaging pad depressed while you are swinging the detector back and forth. It would have been possible to use this mode if Garrett had designed the imaging button as an on-off toggle instead of a constant pressure switch but they didn't. The other downside to searching in pinpoint mode is that you lose the target ID function of the detector.

Most people, even those who own machines with a true all metal mode, hunt with at least a little discrimination as it is worth a little depth to be able to eliminate junk iron targets. For example I use a Teknetics T2 for relic hunting which has separate all metal and discrimination modes and I almost always hunt with the discrimination set at 10 (which would correspond to something close to the first two blocks on the GTI. Note I also have a Garrett 1500 which I have owned for several years and still use for coin shooting so I am also very familiar with it.
 
The GTI 1500's all-metal mode is really just another discrimination set up. It's benefit is that it tends to knock out much of the noise and clutter response of a genuine all metal mode, while still responding to all targets beneath the coil.

In the Garrett line, only the 2500 and the CX Plus currently have genuine, non motion, all-metal operating modes. Instead, the others offer what is really a ZERO discrimination mode. I employ it when I want to determine how much iron is beneath the surface.

Iron can be a real monster, masking other targets so you can't detect them. It is far more common than you may think.
It can especially play havoc with the Garrett's, when you insist on running the SENS any where near the top end of the scale. By switching to ZERO discriminate, you get a tone or ID indication and so learn real quick if you are experiencing iron masking.

So what's the big deal about the other TRUE, all-metal mode? Simply put, it will detect everything beneath the coil, even doing so without motion of the coil. It is most commonly understood as a pinpoint mode by most folks unaccustomed to using it. Go to pinpoint on your 1500. You'll experience true, non motion all-metal operation that way.

Discrimination, on the other hand, was first designed to eliminate the effects of ground minerals. Then came iron discernment. Only later did discrimination become associated with ID'ing every pull tab on the planet. Before that, detectorists were mostly using all metal, period. We're talking the 60's, here.

In Steve's excellent response, he indicated the impracticality of hunting in true ALL METAL. Those early detectorists had it tough, picking up every sort of metal in the ground. There wasn't as much non-ferrous trash in those days, though, and so the rewards were often worth the all-metal hassles.

40 years later, things are a bit different. Unless on a clear field, deep woods site or wide beach with few targets, it is a near fruitless endeavor to hunt that way. In all the usual places we hunt, there is just too much common trash mixed with good targets to really be effective in all metal. Well, unless you have the patience of Job, that is. Most of us don't.

It is the deepest mode available, generally, with the trade off is your instrument responds to everything good or bad, deep or shallow. In practice, some discrimination is almost mandatory.

So why bother with all-metal? There are some times where the benefits of the all-metal function that cannot be denied.

One of these is to help discover old sites in remote locations. When you aren't sure just where a site may be, go to all metal and hunt until you start to find iron. Then switch to some discrimination. Iron is the most common trash item left by man, especially in the past, and it can be used to both identify and date a site. In England, Roman sites can be distinguished from later use sites simply by the types of iron refuse found.

Some other uses for all-metal are:

- Hunting at the sandy beach, where good targets may be at the extreme limits of discriminate detection.
- Hunting when a site is devoid of surface targets... and all that may remain are the deepest of the deep targets.
- Hunting so as to unearth every possible item from the soil at any location. This "scorched earth" method is masochistic at most common sites, but it is thorough.

95% of the time, the real trick is to use just enough discrimination, or the right combinations of it, for whatever site you are hunting. This includes Garrett's ZERO discriminate mode.
It's also the likeliest reason Garrett took non-motion, all metal modes off all but their two top-of-the-line models. Garrett seems to have deemed true, non motion all-metal to be unneeded by the rank and file user, and so leave it off their other instruments.
 
n/t
 
SteveP and dahut ....
You guys have answered all my questions about zero discrimination and all-metal. Thanks a million ! And so simply worded which makes it very easy to understand.
When I got a strong signal awhile back I used the PP and was able to tell just how long and the orientation of what was underneath. A horseshoe ! About 4" and it was pointing pretty much straight down. I thought that was very cool, like I could "see" it before I broke ground. This is a fascinating hobby and am eager to get back at it this Spring. May even sneak in a little dirtfishing Sunday afternoon as we are experiencing rain and 45 degrees. I'm on the St.Lawrence River in New York.

Marty
 
Excellent, Marty! Glad to be f service.
Sometimes I get long winded and run the risk of rehashing what other say. I'm glad it was useful.

I hope you get out to detect Sunday. There can't be many days in winter you are free to do so. On those days it's time for ice fishing! :clapping: :clap: :buds:
 
Hi guys. Here's another question that I know you'll have the answer to. I haven't performed a ground balance act since I've had this machine. Should I try it and am I losing some performance by not doing so ? Nothing in the video or little book, but the GTI 2500 does cover this procedure a bit. Guess that's 2 questions. I was under the impression that this is a turn on and go outfit.

Marty
 
I haven't performed a ground balance act since I've had this machine. Should I try it and am I losing some performance by not doing so ?
Yes, try it if you can. The more you know about your instrument, the better. Learning about your soil and how it changes and/or affects your detector is also a good thing. Although, I wasn't aware you could perform a manual ground balance on the 1500? :shrug:

Are you losing performance on the auto-tracking 1500 by NOT GB'ing it? Only in the most severely mineralized soils that change rapidly. The most likely place to encounter those conditions is when going from wet salt sand back into dry. Otherwise, probably not enough to matter.
 
Cool ! I suppose that's why it wasn't covered in the DVD or manual. Got 2 hours in today. A mess of nails and random junk , 2 pennies. Sure was nice to get out. Reminds me of the feeling of getting out on the golf course. It's just nice to be out and about. Tomorrow if the wind allows I will canoe to a small island and shoot a sidewalk made of large river stones. I was asked to move and pile them up so ......who knows. They've been there for some 40-50 years. I think the ground should still be soft enough in the morning. Will write of anything fun.
Marty
 
Tomorrow if the wind allows I will canoe to a small island and shoot a sidewalk made of large river stones. I was asked to move and pile them up so ......who knows?
Who knows, indeed? This is the sort of thing this hobby is all about.
DO make sure you water proof that 1500 in a doubled plastic bag. We all wish to think that bad chance cannot befall US, but I've been around canoes over the years - and they can be cranky, treacherous beasts. Have a care and plan ahead for the worst, friend.
 
Should have mentioned this earlier but got off track somewhere. The 1500 has no true all metal mode nor a manual ground balance. It is equipped with automatic ground balance and ground tracking. Only the 2500, Scorpion, and Master Hunter are equipped with all metal.

Bill
 
She's always worried about her glutes, their size and shape. I tell her to quit and to give me a good old flat bottom every time!
As the frying pans start to fly, I tell her it was all Bill's idea!!
 
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