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Head phone question

Piero franchi

New member
Hi All

I have not long bought a new Gt, and want to be sure I am useing to right headphones for it.

I see on the minelab home page, they say 32 ohm is ok

I also see they recomend 100 ohm for there other modles.

I have in the past,I made my own, useing good ear fenders and water proof speakers,

Can any one please tell me, what would the differant ohms do in hearing terms, has this any thing to do with digital signels??
Also what would be a good freqancy responce to look for when buying some speakers.



Many thanks
Piero London UK
 
I hope someone has the answer to this. I use the koss 100ohm headphones that come with an Explorer for my Sov(on the minelab site these are accessory phones for the GT just like the 32 ohm ones you mentioned) and they sound pretty good and have a great fit for me but always wonder if another pair would produce even better sounds which is so important with the Sov.

HH
Neil
 
I thought that ohm's was a means of measuring the continuity of a circuit (the higher the ohm's, the less resistance) and if that is the case, I would think that the higher the ohm's the greater the continuity of the circuit which in turn would allow for a stronger signal and may help to more readily discern weaker signals. Then again, I could be totally wrong and sound like a complete idiot.
So, I recommend that you post your question on the PI Technology or the Modifications forum as there seems to be alot of technologically minded individuals whom post there regularly.

And please, I mean no offense to anyone here, just trying to help out a fellow detectorist.

Piero, if you do happen to get an answer from someone that is sure of themself, please let me know because I myself have often wondered about this.
 
I think I saw somwhere that 130 Ohms is the ideal for the GT.???
 
Hi All:
It 's no surprise that the question of headphone impedance is confusing. In fact, Minelabs own Sovereign GT Accessory page recommends both the Koss 100 ohm, and RPG 32 Ohm headphones:

http://www.minelab.com/consumer/page.php?section=272&id=3&pId=7&pNm=Sovereign%20GT

So the answer to the question "which impedance is best?" seems to be, .... "both 100 and 32 ohms!". Why is there so much 'slop" in this specification? I suspect it's because the Sov audio output impedance is designed to handle a broad range of impedances, with no degradation in loudness or sound quality.
Some time ago I posted a list of things that I felt anyone contemplating the purchase of headphones should consider. It was a very long, long, post, but if anyone is interested, I would be happy to post it again.

Good Hunting
fod:)
 
I would love to see that post FOD!
 
Id love to see it also funkyoldude. If it takes more than one beer to read it, all the better:cheers:

HH
Neil
 
Headphone impedance should match the machine for best performance.
Unless your machine is 'true' stereo the headphone speakers are in parallel so 100 ohm headphones are 50 ohms to each ear.
To complicate things Minelab Koss 100 ohms phones provide 200 ohms. Minelabs wiring puts the stereo headphones in series so you get 100 ohms per speaker.

As your in London the easy answer is to go to Gary's web site (www.garysdetecting.co.uk) and look at the Sprite headphones which come in three versions optimised for different machines ie if you rely on tones like Xp's and Explorer's and Sovereigns there is a specific pair to suit. Price is very good especially if compared to those imported from America.

Brian
 
I would like/need to hear it also.

Just a few things to add before you do.

1) minelab have a lot of explaing to do, they claim the koss to be made for minelab, that aint so.

2) they claim the koss suits some of there detectors, so why when I opended up my x-terra did I find a 8ohm speaker when they say it runs better on the koss 100ohm set up.

Here is a link to a question I posted in an forum JUST FOR HEADPHONES.

http://headwize.com/ubb/showpage.php?fnum=3&tid=7090
 
Hi All:
Some time ago a number of folks on this forum tried to determine what constitutes a good pair of headphones. In my opinion, one of the most important things to come out of these posts, was what to look (or listen) for in a quality pair of headphones for the Sovereign.

Many of the contributors have had years of experience, and thousands of hours of hunting with the Sovereign and other detectors. Over the years, they have also used almost every brand of headphones. Their opinions and comments provide an invaluable resource for prospective headphone buyers. To quote a comment from one excellent post: "... I'm confident when wearing them, that alone makes a big difference too!"

After carefully studying each post, I summarized the comments, and put them in the form of a questionnaire. They are not shown in any particular order, nor is this list finished. But as of today, here's what has been posted (plus my comments in brackets). Before making a purchase, you might consider asking yourself the following questions:

Loudness - Are the headphones too loud? Do the target tones blast your ears? Do you need a volume control? Do you need two volume controls, one for each ear? (The forum posters have not commented on whether or not they have had service problems with phone-mounted volume controls, although at least one had a control change its setting.) Do the headphones sound too soft? (Try different brands. If they all sound too soft, you may have a hearing deficit and may need an external amplifier to help boost the signal from the Sovereign).

Target ID - Can you hear the difference between trash and treasure targets? (This is a tough call because there are a lot of variables, but it is the most important question you can ask, and a quality pair of headphones can help you hear the subtle differences. See the end of this post for more info).

Sensitivity - If you turn the Volume Control up to max, and the Threshold Control down until you can just barely tell the difference between the threshold tone and a null, can you still hear the difference above loud ambient noise? How low can you set the Threshold before you no longer can hear it? How do different headphones compare in this test? Do they block environmental noises like the wind and surf noise? (This is especially important for beach hunters).

Ruggedness - Are they built to stand up to the kind of hunting you do?

Service - (Do you get a warranty or guarantee? For how long? What does it cover? What in-warranty service/shipping charges can you expect to pay?)

Ear pads - Are the ear pads soft and comfortable? Do they stay that way in hot and cold weather, after years of use? Can you wear them with spectacles or sun glasses? (Do they stand up to sweat? Are the Ear pads replaceable and inexpensive)?

Head band - Can you wear a hat or ball cap with them? Does the headband carry the weight? Do the headphones squeeze your ears too tightly? Can you wear the headphones for ("x" number of) hours of hunting without discomfort?

Coil Cord - Is the cord too long or too short? (This could depend on where you mount the control unit). Is the cord too heavy? Does it pull on the headphones? Does the cord get tangled in your gear or underbrush? Is the cord field replaceable, or must you send it back to the factory? If it is field replaceable, is the cord inexpensive and readily available?

Switches - Do you intend to use these headphones on different detectors? Would an adaptor plug suffice or would you prefer a switch? (The contributors did not comment on whether or not they had service problems with phone mounted switches, but I had a switch go bad on one of my high quality, commercial phones after 6 months. I paid $20 for shipping and $6 for service. I feel this was a fair price, the service was very quick, and I haven't had a problem since).

Where to find the answers
It seems clear that you may not be able to buy one pair of headphones and expect them to meet all your needs. Many questions are contradictory, and your choices become the ones that make the best sense to you. Some of these questions can be answered by the dealer or the manufacturer. Some can be answered by comparison shopping, field testing, reading reviews, and posting questions on this forum.

A simple test
It's very difficult to explain why one pair of detector headphones sounds "better" than another, but here's a test that you might find helpful when making a comparison. Using a mini-plug adaptor, plug the headphones into a stereo CD player, and listen to some music. Pick the ones that sound best to you. A test like this is very tough on detector headphones, but the sounds of the Sovereign are very demanding. One of the commercial detector headphones that I tested performed surprisingly well.

Why fidelity is important
The target tones cover a broad range of sounds, including some with very high raspy sounds (harmonics) that indicate a trash target. They can be very loud or very soft (dynamic range), from large, shallow targets, to small, deep ones. As you swing the coil over some targets, the tones can sweep up and down quickly (pitch shifting). Some bottle caps "pop" as they come out of a null (impulse response). Some tones sound "smooth", and some maintain a constant pitch, but the quality of the tone changes (timbre shifting) as you swing the coil over the target. There is more to this, but you get the idea. It goes without saying, that your headphones should be able to reproduce all the sounds that your Sovereign can create.

Wrap-up
Again, we have the contributors to thank for their comments, and I appreciate their enthusiasm and terrific response to the project. I've learned a lot about headphones from them, and I hope you have too. I think we are better informed consumers as a result of their efforts. Of course your additions, comments, and critiques are always welcome. One of the best quotes posted on this forum went something like this:

"---(It) is very important to any detectorist to have good headphones. Without them a good detector can become a bad detector."

Good Luck and Good Hunting!

fod:)
 
Hi Piero:

Very interesting post. Here is a pair of detector headphones that I made a couple of years ago. I took an inexpensive pair of Radio Shack Stereo Headphones ($19.00 U.S.), and installed them in a pair of Peltor Noise protectors by filing a slot in the shell as you can see. I used these headphones for beach hunting for about a year, until I made an improved version. I still use them now and then.
Good Luck
fod:)
 
I measured my Koss UR30 headphones, I got 108 ohms from each channel to common and (of course) 216 ohms across both channels.
 
One thing I want to mention I didn't see is some headphone work better on one detector than another detector. I am very hard of hearing and some high tones I am completely deaf in, so I need the volume plus those that have great tones. Now there is impedance matching with the detector itself and even though 2 different detector may say a 32 ohm headphone is recommended the volume can and will be different. Example is on my Sovereigns I find the Timberwolfs have the best volume of any headphones I have tried and the tones are easy for me to tell the difference in, but those same headphones on my Explorer are hard to hear. On the Explorer trying all the different headphones with some costing close to $200 I found the Troy Pros have the best volume of them all, but on the Sovereign they are not loud enough for me.
A friend on mine tried my Timberwolf and Troys Pros against a pair of the Sun Ray Pro gold and felt the Pro gold gave him the best tone quality as he didn't need the volume like I do. My buddies James we see posting great finds on the Explorer forum has the set of Gray Ghost NDT that I used and didn't like the volume, but he likes them so much he got a extra pair just in case his first set goes bad. Another buddies has the Gray Ghost Ultimates I had and didn't like for the volume and he feels these are the best he has ever uses. It just goes to show what works for one may not work for others, but anyone that needs the volume I will say these Timberwolfs are the loudest I have seen and good tones too.
On my Explorer before I got the Troy Pros I took it apart and switched the wire for the speaker with the one for the headphones and made my Timberwolf loud on it as it uses a different circuit. I didn't like this and got a amplifier which helped quite a bit, but I found the Troy Pros had still a better volume and great tones for me. Just wanted to show one set my work on the Sovereigns, but may not on the Explorers or the Fishers or Whites.
Comfort is also very important as most will be wearing them 6-12 hours a day and will say all those mentioned are very comfortable.
 
Hi FOD
Thanks for the post, I dont mean to sound negative, but you did not get tecnical enough.

Basicly, we need to buy every headphone going and try they to determin what is best.

Not so, for every aplication there is a optimone product. (unless you have special needs, hard of hearing etc)

I belive we need to start at the source, which is in basic turms, the detectors amp.

Whats the point in having headphone that sound fantastic on a sterio, if the stereos amp is so much better than our detectos.

Lets not forget, the detector makes the sounds, not the head phones,

we need to know what sound and freqency is being produced buy our detectors, so me can match our headphones to that.

And that the key issue hear, WE NEED TO MATCH OUR HEAD PHONES TO WHAT OUR DETECTORS ARE CAPABLE OFF.

WE need to now more about the spesifcations of our detectors, full stop, OTHERWISE ITS ALL GUESS WORK!!!!!!!!!
 
Hi Piero:

(Skip to the "Bottom Line" if tech stuff is not your cup of tea).
The headphone Impedance specification isn't meaningful, because Impedance has little to do with how sensitive or loud the headphones are. For one thing, the Sov has a "modified" square-wave output to the headphones, while impedance is measured using a sine wave and an LCR Maxwell-Wien Bridge, a laboratory test instrument.

It's been a while, but let me see if I remember how this goes.
Before you can find impedance you need the Inductance (L), the Capacitance (C), and the DC Resistance (R) of the headphones.
Impedance has two reactive (Alternating Current) components: Inductive Reactance (XL) and Capacitive Reactance, (XC), and Impedance (Z) is the sum of these two components, plus the Resistance:

Z = XL + XC + R

To find XL and XC we need to use a frequency component, 2(pi)f, (or 6.28f, also abbreviated "w" as used here), and multiply by the induction and capacitance:
for Inductive Reactance: XL = wL, and
for Capacitive Reactance: XC = 1/wC
Therefore, substituting these components gives:

Z = wL + 1/wC + R

As you can see, Impedance is not as simple as the R = E/I of Ohms law, and an Ohmmeter is not useful except for finding R.
Also, Impedance (Z) changes with the frequency or the pitch of the tone, and the spec for headphone Impedance is usually measured at 1000 Hz. Again, not very useful when the tone changes all over the place as we hunt.

On the other hand, Sensitivity or loudness, is a measure of the sound pressure level in decibels, (or dB SPL) at the eardrums produced by the headphones, with a power input of 1 mW.

Sensitivity depends more on good engineering and design of the headphones, quality components, and close manufacturing tolerances. It also depends on the compounds used in magnet construction, (such as alnico, ferrite, neodymium, samarium cobalt, etc.), which all affect the strength of the magnet, magnet gap efficiency, diaphragm density, and diaphragm flexibility, total driver mass and weight, etc. Some detector headphones use piezoelectric speakers, or telephone headset speakers. Many things can affect sensitivity besides impedance.

Bottom Line
You could try two different brands of headphones on your Sov, both with 75 ohm Impedance, and one might sound great and the other sound awful.
For the Sov user (or any detectorist), this means that perhaps the best approach is to forget the specs, and simply try out the headphones for yourself.
Try the commercial ones suggested by the users on this and other forums: Killer Bees, Timber Wolf, Sun-Ray Pros, Black Widow, Rat Phones (my Favs), Grey Ghost, Koss, etc. If you can't try them yourself, read the unbiased reviews, and check the forums for advice. I'm sure that other Sov users can name their favorites and are happy to tell you what they think of them. Use the guidelines I just posted for evaluating the headphones before you buy them.

Or you can make your own, it's easy and fun. Either way, next to your Sov, headphones can be your biggest expense, so it pays to take your time, and choose the ones that meets your own specific needs.

Good Luck, and Good Hunting.

fod:)
 
My thoughts exactly!:rolleyes:
 
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