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Hey, I expect to see some good reprots and pictures here on the Platypus by the end of the day ! this is my greatest reward !
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Fisrt thing I want to thank you for seeing I was able to get it so fast.
The day was nice today and I received it in the mail today,but our ground is froze yet. That wasnt going to stop me from trying it even though I coundnt find a place that had a air hammer I could borrow, but i guess that would look odd in the park. I decided to hit our old school parking lot that was gravel and not froze to far down. I thought maybe pick up a few pennies to see how it worked. In the hour I was there it worked like a charm, great feeling on the end of the shaft and I like this a lot better than the stock coil that is for sure as it is not so heavy and unbalanced. I dont know if it has more depth as my finds were not that deep, maybe 8 inches max.
Anyway i thought I would just get a few new pennies as there was a guy that last couple of years picking off the quarters and dimes. What i did find was 6 pennies in the 60s a 1957 Canadian penny which was the deepest and must have been at a angle as I couldnt pinpoint it that well and was off a good 3 inches. I got a 1942 wheatie and my first silver of the year a 1963 rosie. This did shock me as this is the first siver I have seen from this parking lot.I didnt take a picture as this is all common coins, but found the Platypus to be a great coil and like I say it feels so good on the end of the shaft.
Thanks again Doc and i bet my hunting buddies will want one after they try it.
Rick
The day was nice today and I received it in the mail today,but our ground is froze yet. That wasnt going to stop me from trying it even though I coundnt find a place that had a air hammer I could borrow, but i guess that would look odd in the park. I decided to hit our old school parking lot that was gravel and not froze to far down. I thought maybe pick up a few pennies to see how it worked. In the hour I was there it worked like a charm, great feeling on the end of the shaft and I like this a lot better than the stock coil that is for sure as it is not so heavy and unbalanced. I dont know if it has more depth as my finds were not that deep, maybe 8 inches max.
Anyway i thought I would just get a few new pennies as there was a guy that last couple of years picking off the quarters and dimes. What i did find was 6 pennies in the 60s a 1957 Canadian penny which was the deepest and must have been at a angle as I couldnt pinpoint it that well and was off a good 3 inches. I got a 1942 wheatie and my first silver of the year a 1963 rosie. This did shock me as this is the first siver I have seen from this parking lot.I didnt take a picture as this is all common coins, but found the Platypus to be a great coil and like I say it feels so good on the end of the shaft.
Thanks again Doc and i bet my hunting buddies will want one after they try it.
Rick
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Got back to town last night 10 PM. Package from post office on the front porch. Now I be working Sat-8am to 8pm and Sunday 8 am to 8 pm. Plus is raining and cold. <img src="/metal/html/frown.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt="
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for the first time here since Jan 9th.. longest I ever had to wait.. I am almost positive it will pay for itself the first day.... as long as I can dig that is... (going to a good spot <img src="/metal/html/smile.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=""> )
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Took my Platypus out today to a school that was built in 1956, which is old for around here. I picked up a Roosevelt and a Mercury, as well as a 1939 penny. This is good for a school this age, in a town this size, and which is hunted heavily. Dimes were 7" and 8.5" deep. The Platypus seems to go every bit as deep or deeper as the stock coil for this machine, and frankly, I do not believe I would have found one of those dimes without it due to heavy mineralization. Thank you for your great customer service , Doc.
Larry A.K.A. #2
Larry A.K.A. #2
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Still havent got my platypus as of this eve here in indiana,was to be sent to Fasig.Just wondering what gives?
Yazoo
Yazoo
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Sorry checked the usps thing says it was tryed 2 deliver 2day and a note was left.guess my mailman is playing games i set here all day waiting on him , no show.thanks Yazoo
PS will go 2 post office monday ,rain for 2 morrow anyway.
PS will go 2 post office monday ,rain for 2 morrow anyway.
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Andy's report sounded like the Platy had a bit more depth than the std. coil for sure. That is part of the reason I bought one. The other main reason was weight. I have to try it in the field yet but to me I could not tell a difference in weight (like I had hoped).
At this rate pretty soon it will have no advantage over the stock coil.
I will hold my judgment until I use the thing a while. Jeez DOC don't give us a report that it has an edge in depth and then come back with "should not be any depth advantage".
HH - Robin
At this rate pretty soon it will have no advantage over the stock coil.
I will hold my judgment until I use the thing a while. Jeez DOC don't give us a report that it has an edge in depth and then come back with "should not be any depth advantage".
HH - Robin
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I'm glad I bought one cause it looks so dang good, puts my head in the right place and its built like a rock compared to the stock un. Andy says its much better around electrical substations and under powerlines and they are around most places I hunt. Seemed more stable in my trailer when I hunted for easter eggs with it. <img src="/metal/html/lol.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":lol">
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<span style="background-color:#ffff00;">There should be an edge in depth advantage but not because the signal penetrates the soil deeper. I think that may be one areea where we get tangled up in explaining depth.</span> There are many signals detected that that cannot be processed in a usable form by the processor. They are very small signals such as ones from a target smaller than a BB so produce a faint signal or very little disturbance in the electromagnetic field. Deep coin on edge or at ultra depth will produce these small signal similar to a tiny object mentioned above.
<STRONG><span style="background-color:#ffff00;">My observations of a double D design is that with the reduction in noise we get, the shape of the coil and the resultant electromagnetic fields interaction with co-located targets, we do in fact get more depth with improved design.</span></STRONG> As an example the use of Litz wire and how the shield is connected to the coil and type of shield used can greatly improve the Q of the coil.
<STRONG>
Without beating this to death there should be more depth in my opinion based on my experiences with the detector and different coil designs.</STRONG> How much more depth edge will be seen as users report on the coil and we will still debate depth no matter. While more ground coverage per sweep is a goal as is less noise in the composite signal in the TX half of the coil it is more ground coverage in length and not in width. We don't need a wider broom to sweep more area but a longer brush length. All of these factors and the proper use of the coil should help to pull out some of those coins at depth that were not usable targets with other coils. It is critical to be able to have a usable faint target that represents deeper target to process. From all I have read and have experienced with this type of design there should be more effective depth. This is just my opinion but I think is valid from a lot of years of experience.
HH, Cody
<STRONG><span style="background-color:#ffff00;">My observations of a double D design is that with the reduction in noise we get, the shape of the coil and the resultant electromagnetic fields interaction with co-located targets, we do in fact get more depth with improved design.</span></STRONG> As an example the use of Litz wire and how the shield is connected to the coil and type of shield used can greatly improve the Q of the coil.
<STRONG>
Without beating this to death there should be more depth in my opinion based on my experiences with the detector and different coil designs.</STRONG> How much more depth edge will be seen as users report on the coil and we will still debate depth no matter. While more ground coverage per sweep is a goal as is less noise in the composite signal in the TX half of the coil it is more ground coverage in length and not in width. We don't need a wider broom to sweep more area but a longer brush length. All of these factors and the proper use of the coil should help to pull out some of those coins at depth that were not usable targets with other coils. It is critical to be able to have a usable faint target that represents deeper target to process. From all I have read and have experienced with this type of design there should be more effective depth. This is just my opinion but I think is valid from a lot of years of experience.
HH, Cody
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Cody. pray tell us about Litz wire and shielding. Your talking my language now, more to this hobby than Beep Dig.
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Cody,
Good points, what interested me in Andys report was not any increase in depth (how many truly deep targets are actually found in any one or two outings) but what he said about the improved (audible) signal response on targets compared to the stock coil. That along with the improvement in RF interference is what indicates to me a superior design.
Tom
Good points, what interested me in Andys report was not any increase in depth (how many truly deep targets are actually found in any one or two outings) but what he said about the improved (audible) signal response on targets compared to the stock coil. That along with the improvement in RF interference is what indicates to me a superior design.
Tom
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Litz wire is sometimes called sticky wire because it sticks in place as the coil ages and has electrical properties that make it ideal for the construction of a coil. There are different methods to shield a coil such as a spray on shield or foil and these are attached to the shield wire differently.
So what I am saying is the use of top quality wire, shielding, construction and quality control plus the double D design can produce a better coil. That better coil does have an edge where depth is concerned in my opinion but is going to depend on the user.
I agree with you 100% but don't expect it to get much further than beep dig for the majority of users. I understand that and don't feel critical about this. (I really don't care how my car works as long as it does what I want it to do.) George Payne has an outstanding post on coil design that you can locate by looking up his post on the internet. I think you know he invented the VLF and is a great design engineer.
HH, Cody
So what I am saying is the use of top quality wire, shielding, construction and quality control plus the double D design can produce a better coil. That better coil does have an edge where depth is concerned in my opinion but is going to depend on the user.
I agree with you 100% but don't expect it to get much further than beep dig for the majority of users. I understand that and don't feel critical about this. (I really don't care how my car works as long as it does what I want it to do.) George Payne has an outstanding post on coil design that you can locate by looking up his post on the internet. I think you know he invented the VLF and is a great design engineer.
HH, Cody
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The simple question people seem to be asking is, will I get more depth with the Platy? Well lets compare the two...
Stock Coil 10x10
This coil 8.5x11.5
Stock coil circumference 10x10 = 31.89
This coil circumference 8.5x11.5 = 31.59
Given the circumference of the two coils is nearly exactly the same the windings are pretty much also the same size, one is just shaped into a normal DD configuration while the other is shaped into an eliptical shape. The difference between the two in depth if any is probably so small that it could only be detected on a test bench. I give the advantage to the stock coil because the width of the windings has a greater effect on depth than the length down the center.
Also, increasing the length down the center, the hottest part of the coil, would seem counter productive to increasing depth since the machine has to deal with that much more mineralized ground. In the stock coil that extra length is out on the parameter of the coil where it is much less sensitive.
Did they use Litz in these coils? Its hard to tell from the pictures but my Joey coil doesn't use litz. In any case coils I have made give sharper responses with solid magnet wire anyway so I prefer it over Litz if a sharper response is a design goal. Litz sounds "fuzzy" to me in comparison.
That said there are MANY black art areas in coil construction. The electrical properties of the magnet wire insulation for example can have an effect on capacitance, as can the resin as can the overlap area and what you might do there. Look closely at the pics of this coil under construction, the inner shell with sheilding seemingly on both the inside and outside of the shell is interesting.
Shielding is another area where capacitance comes into play. The graphite shielding paint these coils use is not very strong, it has little effect on EMI/RFI, it mostly just gets rid of static and ground capacitance. Nickel flake paint is far more effective e.g. conductive but is in fact too conductive for the Explorer. Wave a 1 inch square of plastic coated with nickel flake shielding paint over the coil and the Explorer will detect it.
Even the coil cable is an area where one can tweak and improve the coil yet nobody is talking about coil cables in that regard.
Given the superb quality of the WOT coil my guess is Coiltek is quite skilled in the black art areas of coil design and we'll probably never know why their coils work at good as they do. If in field tests the Platy proves to be a noticable improvement over the stock coil (hey at least it won't spring a leak at the beach) my guess is it will be due more to these black art areas than anything else.
Given the geometry I would not personally expect an increase in depth, quality of signal maybe and that can make a difference.
Just my two cents worth.
Charles
Stock Coil 10x10
This coil 8.5x11.5
Stock coil circumference 10x10 = 31.89
This coil circumference 8.5x11.5 = 31.59
Given the circumference of the two coils is nearly exactly the same the windings are pretty much also the same size, one is just shaped into a normal DD configuration while the other is shaped into an eliptical shape. The difference between the two in depth if any is probably so small that it could only be detected on a test bench. I give the advantage to the stock coil because the width of the windings has a greater effect on depth than the length down the center.
Also, increasing the length down the center, the hottest part of the coil, would seem counter productive to increasing depth since the machine has to deal with that much more mineralized ground. In the stock coil that extra length is out on the parameter of the coil where it is much less sensitive.
Did they use Litz in these coils? Its hard to tell from the pictures but my Joey coil doesn't use litz. In any case coils I have made give sharper responses with solid magnet wire anyway so I prefer it over Litz if a sharper response is a design goal. Litz sounds "fuzzy" to me in comparison.
That said there are MANY black art areas in coil construction. The electrical properties of the magnet wire insulation for example can have an effect on capacitance, as can the resin as can the overlap area and what you might do there. Look closely at the pics of this coil under construction, the inner shell with sheilding seemingly on both the inside and outside of the shell is interesting.
Shielding is another area where capacitance comes into play. The graphite shielding paint these coils use is not very strong, it has little effect on EMI/RFI, it mostly just gets rid of static and ground capacitance. Nickel flake paint is far more effective e.g. conductive but is in fact too conductive for the Explorer. Wave a 1 inch square of plastic coated with nickel flake shielding paint over the coil and the Explorer will detect it.
Even the coil cable is an area where one can tweak and improve the coil yet nobody is talking about coil cables in that regard.
Given the superb quality of the WOT coil my guess is Coiltek is quite skilled in the black art areas of coil design and we'll probably never know why their coils work at good as they do. If in field tests the Platy proves to be a noticable improvement over the stock coil (hey at least it won't spring a leak at the beach) my guess is it will be due more to these black art areas than anything else.
Given the geometry I would not personally expect an increase in depth, quality of signal maybe and that can make a difference.
Just my two cents worth.
Charles