How do we deal with averaging?

[Ism]

I have been doing some crude testing and noticed that when nails are next to a coin in the same plane, we get the nice separation of targets and a decent high conductor signal. Introduce a pull tab or other non-ferrous target into the equation and the same separation turns into target averaging. It isn't until the targets are 4-5 inches apart that they are seen as separate entities. The audio gives a better response to the low conductor object than the high conductor albeit there's a slight chirp using a high tone for high conductors and lower for tabs and such..ie The 4-tone setting I use for coins. A side to side sweep simply sounds like falsing or the rise in conductivity when leaving an iron wire or nail (I hope that makes sense).

I have found a partial solution to the problem. By partial, it works in the lab but real world conditions present such variables that this won't likely work for a majority of situations.

I placed an iron nail, a dime, and a junk ring 2 inches apart respectively. As I sweep the targets I get a slight high chirp and a nice response on the junk ring. No matter what I do I cannot make the dime respond in a fashion that would indicate it was anything more than falsing until I do the following:

Sweep the coil "forward and back" as you move side to side. By using the thin detection area in the center of the DD coil It acts like a surgical detection field and isolates the targets from one another. It works well enough that a repeatable signal on the dime is possible (forward and back) directly over the target. Interestingly enough it works better with a low reactivity setting. I was able to isolate the dime at some serious depth also.

I made a video but I hate the way I "narrate" so I didn't post anything on you tube. I may do another without saying anything if this is of interest to other Deus users.

So am I helping or just regurgitating a well known phenomena to the Deus community?

 

[cadman_us]

Sounds interesting, post the video and don't worry about your narrating, we are detectors not news anchors.

 

[HuntinDog]

Would love to see the vtdeo.
I'm struggling to learn my new Deus and any help out there will help.

Thanks for the Post

HH

 

[Ism]

Depending on where the dime fell in the forward/back sweep, the TID was anywhere from 82-91 (83 being the proper ID for a dime at 8KHz).


[video]http://youtu.be/ofJrzLx9OPo[/video]

 

[southernexplorer]

What kind of Id numbers are you seeing on this test?

 

[Jack Flynn]

That's simple with any detector this applies, dig it..........

 

[Ism]

SE, I posted the ID numbers in the post with the video. It stabelized at 88 but would bounce from 82-91.

 

[southernexplorer]

I guess I should have read the post before I viewed the video. I would consider that a fairly close ID.

Thanks

 

[Ism]

I kind of blended 2 ideas in this thread...the title and a partial solution. The fact is that if a coin is next to a lower conductor target the numbers will average somewhere in between, often not even giving the high conductor chirp. This is much different than the nail/coin tests in other videos. It disappointed me that the non-ferrous targets had to be separated by such a great distance before they were individually recognized by the Deus. So I started playing with alternative ways of finding masked targets in trash.

Thus the reason I questioned if this procedure. Is it well known or did I stumbled on something helpful to others. Bottom line to this finding....If there's a chirp in the high conductor (4 tone in my case), then there's at least one way of checking the target before digging. I couldn't isolate the high tone chirp to a specific location, it was simply part of the side to side sweep. It wasn't until I swept the targets forward/back on the coil that I could pinpoint the individual coin target.

 

[Big Boys Hobbies]

The Deus is the same with ALL detectors in trash. Except much faster! lol

If you can get a desired response of audio even for just a second, its best to check it out in multiple angles. Do not worry about #'s if you have multiple close targets. If you can get a repeatable audio hit you better dig it.

#'s will lie! AUDIO AUDIO AUDIO! Really deep targets, targets on edge, multiple close targets, ground moisture etc, etc, etc can all effect #'s.

 

[Ism]

Bart, Funny you should mention that as everybody tries to figure out how to not dig crown caps (a repeatable audio hit). I agree, audio tells much more than a number but the number is additional info. I use both and have been very successful in determining trash vs treasure based on the combination. While I find the Deus a pleasure to use, it is plaigued by the same limitations as other detectors in a carpet of crown caps, pull tabs, foil among other human debris. even though a coin is there and exposed to the coil, it can and will be masked if too close to the trash.
High reactivity (recovery speed) doesn't improve my results, on the contrary my deep coin program was better at sniffing out the good target than the high speed (modified Deus fast). While I admit the Deus is only the second TID machine I owned,
I misunderstood that the fast recovery would work with non-ferrous as well as ferrous trash. A much smaller coil would surely help in these matters but as it is, I have no complaints...just learning the nuances of a machine and hoping others had some helpful hints.
It seems the only answer... dig everything. And thats probably why I've found more gold and silver treasure with my beep and dig "elcheapo detector".
Ran

 

[Ism]

Just an update. I have been using this technique in the field now for several hunts on iffy targets. It actually works pretty good
Its not a erfect science, I've been fooled a couple times but I found it helpful in this drought.
Digging can be very hard on the wrist and this helps reduce the digging of too many unnecessary targets.
After it rains and the earth softens, then I can dig the iffy targets. (there's just too many where I hunt)