Iron and the Explorer

[Anonymous]

Something interesting about the Explorer that has been commented on many times is that it has a unique ability to cut through the iron and find "keepers" or great signals. Typical settings include, Ferrous sounds, sens 20-32, Fast or Deep, Audio Normal or 1. Some have said that conductive sounds better in this site, and others have said ferrous sounds do better, all I know is that I tried an experiment this evening with my machine and it leaves me wondering about our machines. I took a large iron nail and a nickel and waved it in front of the coil of the Explorer. The setting was IM-16. The only tone heard was that of iron being masked. I seperated the nickel by a few inches, again the nickel was masked. I then took the coin and placed it in front of the nail, and waved it across the coil. Again, the target was masked. Being a relic hunter and searching long forgotten Civil War camps...with TONS of iron, broken square nails, etc...I "thought" that the Explorer would be able to go through and produce something that other "top of the line machines" couldn't do. So I did what some of you do, I took another machine, an older model Tesoro "bandido" and conducted the same experiment. In all cases, the bandido was able to hit the nickel with a good sound, with the large iron nail next to it, on top of it, behind it and separated by an inch. First with minimal discrimination, then with the disc set to 5 and the sensitivity set to 8. I don't know how some of you are finding "keepers" in with the deep iron as the explorer actually doen't detect the coin item even seperated by an inch in close proximity. Cody, I know you seem to do very well, and CC, I admire that you run in conductive sounds...but can anyone explain this to me? Try the experiment yourself, get an old square nail, large or small and do an air test and begin to wonder about ALL of those sites you thought you really dug out with this machine. You may want to consider going back to the same areas with other machines to pick up what you might have left behind!!! ***Note the coil used was the Sunray 8" coil...(a very good one I might add!!)

 

[Anonymous]

Yes that is rust on the quarter. It has been stated many times on this forum that the Explorer needs dirt and the so-called halo effect. The Explorer does not get good results in air tests. Many times I have pulled a coin and a nail out of the same hole. If you are not a believer then that is fine...for the rest of us Explorer users. We will just follow behind you and find what you couldn't. The proof is in the picture!
Marc

 

[Anonymous]

Marc, thanks for showing me the picture but what settings were you using? How close to the iron was the quarter? I know about the eddy currents of iron as well as the halo effects- however if you have an old square nail that has been in the ground for 100+ years and there is a coin next to it- will the explorer tweak out the sounds of the coin? The only places I search are those that are over 100 years old and in only one place was I able to pull something out from iron and that was a GA cuff at about 2 " laying near some iron. The gold content of the cuff was very good as well as the quality of the cuff was fantastic. Any recommendations or settings for a site like the one I am illustrating by the nickel/iron nail example as that how this site is? Thanks!

 

[Anonymous]

In order for the Explorer to process good targets next to iron you have to be sweeping very slowly. The slow sweep speed is crucial for picking coins out of heavy iron areas, the machine just needs time to process the different signals.

 

[Anonymous]

Dan, knowing the capabilities of the unit and that it is an ultra "slow" sweep speed I slowly moved the targets over the coil in first horizontal and then veritical positions. Because of the null, I thought that is was peculiar so I even slowed the movement down more in both positions again. Finally, after constant null and a "minor" occasional sound- (again something that I would probabaly ignore for a better sounding signal), I would move the targets faster. Again without a keen or good response from the unit. I am not mocking the machine or cutting down any of the technology, I am just sharing the results with everyone to see what they come up with. This experiment can somewhat give everyone a picture of the sites that I am hunting. Heavy woods, mineralized ground (Virginia), iron nails in abundance. Thick follage, and very valuable relics being masked by the iron...

 

[Anonymous]

Smartscreen, Gain 10, sensitivity 22-28 and sometimes I fool around with iron mask. The rust on the quarter was from a big bolt. Most of the other cases were coins next to a square nail. Some coins were over 100 years old. Most were deep...6" and more. Most signals were a little broken but I have learned that this broken sound many times means silver next to a nail. I cant say that I have found a nickel and a nail in the same hole...maybe but I just dont remember. Seems to me that if you are relic hunting an old site out in the middle of nowhere then you would want to run your explorer wide open with very little iron mask. I trust the smartscreen more then digital. It is more refined.
Marc

 

[Anonymous]

Marc, thats what I do...Iron mask at -16...wide open...sounds ferrous gain 8 to 10, audio 1, sens depending on the place high mineralization anywhere from 16 up to 25, recovery fast... I guess I have to dig those broken signals more and just start cleaning out the iron...

 

[Anonymous]

I probably dug several pieces of iron all last year and Explorers just grab the deep silver where others don't. Tesoro is a fast machine and I think it behooves any ardent detectorist to have several units in his stable as one unit can't do it all. Not much into experiments as we are usually dealing with newly planted targets and an Explorer excells at targets buried many years..

 

[Anonymous]

I can't speak to the air test results, all I can say is the majority of my finds are hiding "in" the iron. On the other hand its no miracle machine e.g. its not going to give you a solid signal from all angles. Here's some pics...
I found this shortly before the snow fell this year, note the iron still attached to what probably is a dog tag.
<img src="http://www.coilbuilders.com/pics/iron1.jpg" alt="" />
Here's one from a couple of years back, the IH is show for scale. Its a small silver thumbwheel with this rusty iron shaft still attached.
<img src="http://www.coilbuilders.com/pics/iron2.jpg" alt="" />
A few Explorer finds from the Upstate NY rusty nail infested parks. No shortage of rusty square nails in our neck of the woods, 300 plus years worth.
Here's my mother of all rusty iron examples, see those two glossy edged large cents...they were tough signals and I got curious what was hiding them on this rusty nail infested hill we were hunting so I dug up the iron afterwards...it was an 18 x 2 inch long rusty iron file gawd!

 

[Anonymous]

In addition, if you were to program on your smart screen to accept only the nickle area it would probably give some sort of signal.
Chuck

 

[Anonymous]

Many people do that test and I think it is a bad one, and here is why.
In that test the detector is not having to deal with more than two targets, no halo, not to mention ground mineralization. In real conditions in iron you will NEVER only have one target, plus with the iron leaching into the soil you can likely multiply the equation by two or three, or more. What I have been amazed by the explorer is its ability to almost be able to sort all of these factors letting you hear the good targets. On some other detectors they might do as well in the air, but when you do the real inground tests they seems almost overwhelmed with what they're trying to process, thus grouping sounds for a distored signal. There is no doubt Tesoro makes a great relic detector, but I tend to think they just work in a different way than the Explorer. When I have used a Bandido or silver Sabre I felt more like I was getting targets strictly out of separation, where as the Explorer seems to have the ability to power through and around iron. This may not make sense to some but it's just how my simple mind thinks about it. <img src="/metal/html/smile.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=""> As a back up point to that I still can't believe how high a sens. the Explorer can work in iron and do very well.
As for the Conductive VS ferrous they are both very good if you know them well. In Conductive you have to adapt your ears to the subtle difference in sounds that break the threshold.(or silence if you don't use one) In ferrous with a very open iron mask (like most use) you have to learn what a good signal that blends with the iron sounds like. Those of course are just the basics of both modes but where I feel people have the problem in Conductive is heavily masked targets also blend so it's a little different than just a beep coming through the threshold. That perhaps might be the reason most prefer ferrous because the priciple of what you are listening for stays closer to the same. Something that also seems to back this up a bit is I feel an experienced conductive user would make the change much easier to ferrous than the other way around.
As for my own detecting I like -14 IM (sens.27 or 2 and keep the same settings almost all the time. After so many hours like this I know almost every blip and there is nothing more to sort out. The two things that helped me the most learning this detector..... getting my a$$ kicked by someone who had a better way, and putting in a ton of time.
PS In iron short swings from every different direction. If you grid with the explorer in iron and think once you make a pass it's cleaned.... well <img src="/metal/html/lol.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":lol">

 

[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

Well, I must agree that the Bandido does do a great job of separating targets, as I have one, and that is why I bought it years ago. But it will not ever go even near the depth of the Explorer 11, or at least not the depth that mine goes to, in case some go deeper than others. So I would miss a lot of targets, because I would not get down to them. So my Bandido just sets there most of the time, as it don't do the job for me, in depth.

 

[Anonymous]

Christian,
Audio 1 is not a good idea when there are targets close together. The reason is that Audio 1 causes the tone to be significantly lengthened in duration. To get a feeling for this I suggest that you run a simple air test (for purposes of illustration) with a coin at 6" from the coil with:
* Conductive mode
* Sensitivity=25
* Gain=7
* Deep On
* Fast Off
* Audio 1 and then repeat with Audio Normal
You will note a level of crispness in the Normal tone whereas the Audio 1 tone is very slurred and elongated in duration. The elongated tone in Audio 1 makes it much more difficult to pick a good target out of trash.
I do not know why one would run with Fast On and Audio 1. It is my opinion that they are fighting each other
Hope this helps,
Glenn

 

[Anonymous]

when all is said and done that ,you cant find it all. I have hunted a small cavalry camp for one solid year cause it was the only place to go at the time. The last few times i went there the finds were just not there.i have invited uummmm the other brands and they found as much, or more than i did,cause the conditions were beter i guess.You got the machine to do the job right,just keep trying new things till it hits.I cant ever remember being skunked with the MINELAB.every hunt is exciting,whats next ,where is it let me at that pile of dirt. uuuhhhhmmm . sorry gotta go.Seeyallater.
..................................................Ed

 

[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

Everyone, appreciate your responses and history will too. The reason why I put that last blurb is its in ways a race against time. Trying to dig up the history before it is bulldozed and turned into a town house or condo building. This site has through the years turned out some valuable once in a life time relics, however the signals are few and far to come by. This is due to the incredible mineralization as well as the iron. I will use some of your suggestions and CC, appreciate your guidance as well as pictures of your finds with the iron still attached. Also Capt- Using audio 1, I was able to find two enfield bullets in a hot spot of mineralization and broken iron, so it has worked for me. I read once that using Ferrous will sometimes mask the good target in iron it will be "fooled", so possibly that might be the answer there. I will persist with the explorer and probably bring both machines into the camp and start cleaning out the thirty plus huts that are in there...especially the ones that aren't visible. Again, thank you everyone for your assistance with this experiment!