Jumpy OMEGA?

[bubbadirect]

Good morning all. I have been MDing this past week in a civil war battlefield and in some old homesite locations around the area. A couple things that I have found is that this machine LOVES TO FIND LITTLE SQUARE NAILS! hahaha. I know that the square nails are old, but the thing that gets me as this detector will find them and deep and even the smallest piece of the nail will pick up! It sucks digging the little nails when you are relic hunting for old CW shell fragments! Anyway, I am hoping to get some "insight" from others now.

I dug a 3 cent piece, 1865, (nickel) from the same CW field but almost didn't dig it. The VDI was jumping around so much, I thought it was trash or a pull tab of some sort. Also, this thing jumps around alot when digging something that could be of value (bullet, CW shell frag, coin) but also does the same thing with trash. I read somewhere here that if something jumps around this much, then it is probably trash.

I have been using the 11"DD coil, but wonder if I should try the stock concentric coil. Any thoughts here?
Also, I have had my cell phone on my hip. I have now read too that this might interfere.
Last thing. I have been unable to run the sensitivity quiet past 57-59. Is this normal?

Thanks in advance,
bubbadirect

 

[bubbadirect]

n/t

 

[bugg]

n/t

 

[bubbadirect]

okay. Disc has been set at 14 to pick up the (supposed) bigger iron, and ground mineralisation has been around 57-59. The discrimination can't go above 57-59 or erratic VDI number jumping occurs, and it quits being quiet with the jumping. I have tried the 99 sens and the A/T on the disc (or all metal mode) and appear to get a little more depth this way, but aren't always in the mood to listen to the constant "chatter" that comes with those settings.

 

[Monte]

 

[Cache Man]

if you have a cell phone on you when this happens Turn it off , if you are looking for anything Deep you will have to run the sense and gain wide open. you should be running your disc on 16 on the Omega if you are dig 2 nails then take your disc knob and turn it to the right until the word iron disappears and you should not be digging any more nails at that site, now the EMI problem go to Radio Shack and purchase 2 ferrite dateline EMI filters part no--273-0105 they snap around the coil wire next to the housing, take black electrical tape and put it around the cable first about 2 rounds should do it, these filters want stop the EMI But it will lower it by 12 points on your disc their for making it a little more stable, if you are wanting a quite detector then you want find it in a teknetics or a fisher unless you are a tot-lotter were you can run your detector at 50% sens and what your looking for is only up to 4" deep The Omega is a great Coin finder if thats what you are looking for, if your looking for relics then you need to look at the T2 or the F75 but they are a lot more nosier than the Omega. HH

 

[bubbadirect]

But as you increase the Gain/Sensitivity beyond that 'sweet spot" you shift from a nice modulated audio to a more saturate audio response. That is, the the received response is "saturated" or amplified so that when at maximum Gain/Sensitivity you will get an almost full audio bark from a deeper target as you do from a shallow one. The variable Gain/Sensitivity control allows us to adjust for that effect.
What some folks like is to hear a loud response from a deeper target, and this can be due to hearing loss, use of less than superior headphones, or just simply a personal preference. Many, however, like a more modulated audio so that they can discern, from the signal strength of the response, just how deep a target might be w/o referring to a "coin depth" read-out.

So is this where I increase the sensitivity past the 57-59 area and I hear the "chatter/noise" from the jumping around of the targets? I guess I need to experiment more with the machine and find out if the "worthy treasures in the ground" provide a more constant and better sounding ALERT when something is found...

Of these, the 11" DD coil is going to give most people fits when hunting a site where there are an abundance of targets from surface to 2"-3" and the search coil is worked very close to the ground.That is due to the nature of the overlapping DD design and the size of the Tx and Rx coils.

I think you nailed it on the head. Seriously.

naturally, a better alternative would be to use the stock elliptical 10" coil (less coil-to-target problems. Much more stable and only very shallow targets (essentially surface) cause any back-reading issues that the 11" coil suffers from.

Again, I need to try out the stock 10" elliptical coil. How easy is this to PINPOINT? Any suggestions here???

You didn't mention the depth, or the detector's settings, but t wouldn't surprise me if it was relatively shallow as most of my older coin site produce (ghost towns, encampments, etc., etc.).

Actually that 3cent piece was only about 4 inches down, and lying almost sideways!

In time you can learn to classify some of the trash, and you can start by raising the 11" coil a little off the ground once you get a signal (or multiple responses, actually), to isolate the target and pinpoint its position. Then re-sweep it. Bullets, CW shell fragments, pull tabs, nails, most trash and some desired targets are not a nice round, uniform shape or positioned for best detection. Odd shapes will produce odd readings. Simple.

So will I be able to "read" the detector with more practice? I don't want to miss some GOODIES in the ground, but I was getting tired of digging old square nails, but then again, I didn't have the iron notched out, as I was trying to find some fragments of shells. ALSO, I have found that with the iron that it finds, sometimes it rings as silver, then iron, then silver, then nickel, then silver, then foil, then silver. Now to me, THAT IS WEIRD! This is what I mean with the "jumpy detector."

I only like the 11" coil when trying to cover a large, open area (plowed field or beach or similar site) where targets are not abundant. Matter of fact, I would be looking for ANY sign of human activity. then, once located, i switch to a smaller coil most of the time.

Do you hunt open fields? Why? Have you found some goodies by doing this? Looking for signs of human activity? It is a farmers field, right? Who knows what I might find in a field I guess. Can you explain why open fields? Maybe I need to learn how to research better where to hunt.

Also, you will usually have a little more chattery operation at a higher Sensitivity setting if sweeping over very mild ground than you will over more mineralized dirt, which can keep it rather silent during a sweeping search.

Is this how you like to hunt? At a higher sensitivity with the chattery operation going on?

Thanks again for all you help Monte!!!

 

[Monte]

for me, some things are a bit different.

The Omega is a great Coin finder if thats what you are looking for, if your looking for relics then you need to look at the T2 or the F75 but they are a lot more nosier than the Omega. HH

No argument with regard to the Omega being a great "coin getter," as I find it one of the most fun to use on a daily basis.

Now, about the "noise" concerns. With MY Omega and the settings I like to use, I find it much noisier than the two T2's I have used in the same areas at the same time with the same-size and type 11" DD coil. In most field use in an urban application I get performance that is as good or better using my stock 10" Concentric than my 11" DD, and actually like to use my 5" DD the most. That small coil has hardly any noise issues in the renovation work and building rubble sites and such where I do some city hunting, as well as in the 'tot lots'.

Out in a rural setting where there's no EMI issues, the 11" on the Omega runs fine, but I have noted that he two T2's I've used ran very quite at the turn-on factory default settings, and I could tweak things up quite a bit and still be pretty smooth running.

Monte

 

[Monte]

So is this where I increase the sensitivity past the 57-59 area and I hear the "chatter/noise" from the jumping around of the targets? I guess I need to experiment more with the machine and find out if the "worthy treasures in the ground" provide a more constant and better sounding ALERT when something is found...

Some environments are just electrically 'noisy' and there's not much you can do about it. The result is that you have to reduce the Sensitivity to a level you can tolerate. I had a small break in the rain and a few brief minutes between finishing some air tests and dinner time yesterday. Not wanting to get the wife irritated with me if I was late for grub, i picked a close-by spot with some recent sidewalk repair. Unfortunately, something at that side-street intersection was giving me fits! I could run the Sensitivity up to maybe 55, but it was so bad that I needed to drop down to 45-48 in order to have a more stable operation and be able to hear the subtle target hits rather than pick through the sputtery noise.

What I was pointing out in that reply was that when using a lower Sensitivity setting the mid-depth to deeper targets will have a softer (weaker?) audio response (modulated) and there are times I like that. With the Omega, and many similarly designed models, you can crank the Gain/Sensitivity up and what that will do is enhance the audio response. Some brands/models have referred to this as "pre-amp gain" and that gives a hint as to what is going on. The Sensitivity or gain level is increased prior to final processing and that will saturate the audio response so that those mid-range to deeper targets will sound louder like a shallower target. You can get a little better depth and a better, easier-to-hear response from smaller and/or deeper targets. The trade-off is that it will also enhance (amplify if you will) those little blips and clicks and ticks from what should have been rejected, or from outside EMI sources. This translates to noise.

Of these, the 11" DD coil is going to give most people fits when hunting a site where there are an abundance of targets from surface to 2"-3" and the search coil is worked very close to the ground.That is due to the nature of the overlapping DD design and the size of the Tx and Rx coils. I think you nailed it on the head. Seriously.

That's why I usually use the 5" or stock 10" coils for most hunting because I am working in trashier environments, or just places where most targets are likely to be relatively shallow.

Again, I need to try out the stock 10" elliptical coil. How easy is this to PINPOINT? Any suggestions here???

Yes, I think you ought to work with it for a while. So often, and I am not referring only to the Omega or just Tek/Fisher products here, I will read about someone buying a detector AND a larger-than-stock coil simply based upon all the claims of "great depth" and not long after the new member to the sport, or a newcomer to a particular make/model and coil, fault the detector for annoying or poor performance. in reality, the detector is quite capable, but many get caught up in some manufacturer's 'hype' or a big push for a particular larger coil by somebody who ... just maybe ... used that same set-up and, FOR THEM, everything worked great!

Personally, I like some stock coils and really favor a smaller-than-stock size coil for most hunting tasks. Smaller coils suffer from ,much less "back reading" or EMI or ground mineral related issues, and due to their size can work in and around trash much better. All the while, many of these smaller-size coils will still provide impressive depth when the opportunity for them to show off arises.

Actually that 3cent piece was only about 4 inches down, and lying almost sideways!

An unfavorable meta alloy mix, somewhat deep for its small size, and not positioned for a "nice-and-proper" response. It's no wonder you didn't have a terrific TID or overall response. But, for success, we need to learn to dig the 'iffies' and rely on a trained "gut feeling."

So will I be able to "read" the detector with more practice? I don't want to miss some GOODIES in the ground, but I was getting tired of digging old square nails, but then again, I didn't have the iron notched out, as I was trying to find some fragments of shells. ALSO, I have found that with the iron that it finds, sometimes it rings as silver, then iron, then silver, then nickel, then silver, then foil, then silver. Now to me, THAT IS WEIRD! This is what I mean with the "jumpy detector."

In time you can learn when to set a lower Sensitivity level BY CHOICE or to run with it wide-open (or close to), and how to interpret a lot of the responses by using the Discriminate mode response and some very quick checks in Pin Point. Some iron will give you problems due to the ferrous nature of it and the effect iron has on an EMF compared with a non-ferrous target, as well as the shape. You'll get errant readings off the end of nails and other odd-shaped iron, and let's not forget the shallower targets and the 11" DD coil you've been using.

Practice, practice, practice. That's all it takes to learn and master a detector.

Do you hunt open fields? Why? Have you found some goodies by doing this? Looking for signs of human activity? It is a farmers field, right? Who knows what I might find in a field I guess. Can you explain why open fields? Maybe I need to learn how to research better where to hunt.

I hunt an open field when I have suspicion that there has been past human activity in the area. Perhaps a field where there was some CW activity? A farmer's field where there might have been a former farm-house, church, school, and the like. Fields where they used to hold a circus, carnival, or maybe some early-day baseball games. Open areas might be fields, or just open areas in the desert out from the main parts of old ghost tons or railroad stops. Grass or sage covered sites where there were military or pioneer encampments, or even back into some now brushier places that were part of an old picnic grove and recreation site.

I hunt suspected sites to try and locate where the activity was, and for this I might opt to use the 11" coil simply for coverage. However, once I locate and determine the boundary areas of my intended search site, I most often go to a smaller coil. Eventually, when cleaned out a bit I mount a stock coil.

Research is very important for long-term success and enjoyment.

Is this how you like to hunt?

Also, you will usually have a little more chattery operation at a higher Sensitivity setting if sweeping over very mild ground than you will over more mineralized dirt, which can keep it rather silent during a sweeping search.

At a higher sensitivity with the chattery operation going on?

While I would really like every site to be totally free of interference and have no EMI problems at all, I have to admit that I am one of those you prefers to operate "at the edge" and I'll run with my Sensitivity turned up to the point that I might be just a little chattery rather than reduce it and adjust for total silence.

Happy Hunting,

Monte

 

[bubbadirect]

Monte, thank you again so much for the added information. I am finding out that I am really liking the OMEGA! The only thing that I truly wish that it had on it would be a screen image popup of what the internal processor thinks it is that is in the ground. (Kinda like my buddies Whites XLT) I would really find that helpful, and I think that others would too.

But other than that, I am really starting to get the hang of this machine, or so I think. I went out for a few hours each work day this week and 6 hours yesterday to a park that is about 60 years old. I think that someone has gone through the park and "littered" recent clad PENNIES, as I found 58 cents yesterday, 28 pennies, 1 clad dime, and 3 clad nickels. I still have yet to find the eluded silver in this park or others, but I know that it is out there. I also found a dart tip, an old matchbox car, and about 30 pop tops (both old and new style) and about 20 screw tops. Now these screw tops, really do just that! THEY SCREW WITH YOU! I honestly thought that I might have a coin with each one as they would register in the 80-82 range, but it was a doggone screw cap. UGH. I did find an old license plate about 15 inches down, and this was with the edge sticking up, not being flat, so I thought that this machine is really "sensitive" after all, but then I know that from experience and from reading this forum and others.

I do like the stock concentric coil, but I found it easier to use the 11' DD coil, but then again, I have used this as the majority of the time when relic hunting. One thing that I AM GOING TO PURCHASE NEXT, is a pin-pointer! This is very necessary in my opinion, and would especially help when coin shooting, don't you agree?

Thanks again,
bubbadirect

 

[bubbadirect]

if you have a cell phone on you when this happens Turn it off , if you are looking for anything Deep you will have to run the sense and gain wide open. you should be running your disc on 16 on the Omega if you are dig 2 nails then take your disc knob and turn it to the right until the word iron disappears and you should not be digging any more nails at that site, now the EMI problem go to Radio Shack and purchase 2 ferrite dateline EMI filters part no--273-0105 they snap around the coil wire next to the housing, take black electrical tape and put it around the cable first about 2 rounds should do it, these filters want stop the EMI But it will lower it by 12 points on your disc their for making it a little more stable, if you are wanting a quite detector then you want find it in a teknetics or a fisher unless you are a tot-lotter were you can run your detector at 50% sens and what your looking for is only up to 4" deep The Omega is a great Coin finder if thats what you are looking for, if your looking for relics then you need to look at the T2 or the F75 but they are a lot more nosier than the Omega. HH

Cache MAN! Thank you for this suggestion! I need to see if I can get this at radio shack, and see it I can get it figured out. How much should this cost?

Thank you,
bubbadirect

 

[Monte]

I got along without a Pin-pointer for 44

 

[Mr.Bill]

Now these screw tops, really do just that! THEY SCREW WITH YOU! I honestly thought that I might have a coin with each one as they would register in the 80-82 range, but it was a doggone screw cap. UGH

You might want to give the stock 10" coil a shot the next time your plagued with rusty screw caps. It may just help you out. DD coils are prone to enhanced problems discriminating out screw caps.

Mr. Bill

 

[bubbadirect]

thanks mr. bill! I will try out that stock 10" coil again, as I am still learning this machine.

Thank you,
bubbadirect

Hmmm, now where to hunt next?

 

[bubbadirect]

Mr Bill, well I went out today with the stock 10" coil for about an hour or 2, and found that the pull tabs usually brought about a number between 60-64, and the screw caps bleeped as if it was a coin! (With the TID steady, then jumpy at times) BUT I did notice that the screw caps showed the Fe bar as 2 bars usually, while coins maintained only 1 bar.

How does that sound? Is this what you get also?

Thanks,
bubbadirect

 

[bubbadirect]

CACHE MAN-I am off to radio shack now to try these EMI/RFI suppression choke tools. Hopefully they will help. Do these actually set on the coil where the cabling attaches to it?

Thanks,
bubbadirect

 

[Cache Man]

No put them up next the housing were the fitting screw into the housing, you should see some improvement , I did HH
PS. The EMI filters at RS is $4.00-$5.00 Each.

 

[bubbadirect]

Cache Man---sorry to bug ya, but I wanna do this right. Do I clip it on to the cable by the cable plug where you screw it in that goes into the housing unit (lcd, battery, etc)? Right on the cable right?

Thanks again,
bubbadirect