Just curious about something

[Elton]

Iron Trash ............. Just where does all this Iron Trash exist in the areas we all detect. When one says Iron trash I think of pieces of iron in the ground, and a lot of it..

Sure I have hit some..But I have to admit..it isn't like some would want you to believe in my opinion..

I hit Pull tabs..small I suppose, some iron pieces, or metal content targets ...But mostly the iron I encounter is in the dirt... High iron content mineralized dirt.
And it isn't a lot in my areas..

Doesn't basic discrimination on most machines remove the iron pick up of the Iron mineralization in the dirt. ????

 

[Furious T]

Elton, when I see someone using the term "iron trash" I think of bits and pieces of old rusted iron, like nuts, bolts, washers, nails and a myriad of other small pieces or iron from all sorts of sources. For example, in the town where I live, there is a railway bridge which passes over one park and across the river and above a large area of sports playing fields. If detecting under the bridge one runs into of an assortment of bits of iron that have come down from the bridge (mostly in times of repairing same). Not only that, there are also the steel frames which hold up the bridge and the steel tracks and girders above. I guess you could claim to be surrounded by iron trash
Iron mineralisation in the ground I see as something different, and I would not refer to it as iron trash. That's just me, though. HH

 

[RLOH]

Elton, I think we detect in the same type of places(parks, fairgrounds, schools) and most of the trash I encounter is of the modern type. I have several places where I have ran into tons of rusty nails that are deep(6 to 10 inches) These particular spots are not large areas, but these rusty nails are concentrated. I have come to the conclusion that there must have been some sort of building that either burned down or was demolished. It's hard to imagine anything like that being there because all I see is pristine lawn or park. I have owned just about every detector made and some handle these nails much better than others. I use to avoid these spots, but now it seems like I can find an occasional silver coins by wading through very slowly and digging mixed signals. Fast detectors like the T2, Omega, AT Pro have all worked great for me.

 

[jim tn]

For the most part, I think of iron mostly being found on old home sites. Quite often, a term like "beds of nails" are frequently used and associated with such sites. Many of our typical hunting spots do contain some iron objects, but not to the extent of being a bed of iron. Of course, there are exceptions. I hunt a site that once contained a variety of rides and a lot of iron was used for reinforcement and ultimately the site is loaded with iron. For me, I want a detector that does well in modern trash. Like, many of the Fisher and Tek detectors. This is my take, anyway. HH jim tn

 

[SteveP(NH)]

Doesn't basic discrimination on most machines remove the iron pick up of the Iron mineralization in the dirt. ????

It does to a certain extent but when the mineralization is high enough you start losing a lot of depth even with a properly ground balanced machine. That is why many gold machines are PI machines as they can handle high mineralization without losing depth since most gold fields have a lot of other mineralization especially iron. But I would think that you would know this already.

 

[Elton]

I asked because I see some detectors claim "works in high iron trash areas". Not so much a claim to high mixed mineral areas. Of which I do not have in my area anyway.

I think, I, like some of you would rather have a all around detector that works OK everywhere..Rather than what I would see as a specialized High Iron trash detector some sell.

I appreciate the answers I got.. I did have a reason for asking...I mostly wanted to verify if what I perceived as Iron Trash was iron trash, or just mixed metal junk.
Thanks all .............

 

[Tom Slick]

I often hunt ghost towns that are littered with iron trash in the form of thousands of nails from the torn down buildings and folks living in these towns back then just dumped their trash outside or in the nearest ravine. This trash was full of tin cans (more iron trash). Over the years these cans and the tin roofs have rusted and fallen into many pieces. Quite often these can and roof fragments are laying all over the ground, mixed with the nails. There's good targets in the soil but many are being masked by the iron trash. When hunting these areas, it's important to use a detector with a fast recovery that can be swept at a slower rate in order to hit the good targets sitting between or under the iron pieces. Smaller coils are also needed. You'd be amazed at the numbers of detectors that do poorly in these areas. Monte Berry who posts on a number or these detecting forums (Monte) has what he's named the "Nail Board test". Although not perfect, it demonstrates how well or how poorly many detectors perform when trying to pull good targets from among nails. Results can very drasticly depending on size and shape of the iron and the depth of the target in relation to the iron but it's a very good test to steer someone in the right direction when looking for a detector that performs well in iron infested sites. Some of the best performing are the White's Classic III, and IDX Pro, Many of the older Tesoros like the Silver Saber, Eldorado, and Bandido, and current offerings from Makro, and Notka, and the Deus..

 

[Monte]

Iron Trash ............. Just where does all this Iron Trash exist in the areas we all detect. When one says Iron trash I think of pieces of iron in the ground, and a lot of it.

"Iron Trash" can exist almost anywhere that man has been. The types of iron trash can vary, and most certainly the density of iron trash in a given area can also greatly vary from very sporadic and well spaced, to some of the densest, nastiest, most challenging target there is to deal with.

Sure I have hit some..But I have to admit..it isn't like some would want you to believe in my opinion.

I know that there are a lot of ferrous discards out there, and many 'average hobbyists,' who I refer to as "Traditional Coin Hunters" that spend almost all of their detecting time [size=small](often limited)[/size] in typical urban settings like tot-lots, parks and schools, have no clue just how much iron is out there.

Why? Because most average folks don't like junk so they reject it. The Discrimination level is often set to reject all iron, often even adjusted a little higher to get rid of some annoying amounts of small foil. Then many have asked for and been provided Notch Discrimination so they can selectively reject other non-ferrous metal targets that distract them from 'coin finding.' They don't hear the presence of iron trash or other rejected metals, so they are often not aware of the fact that 'iron' is there.

I hit Pull tabs..small I suppose, some iron pieces, or metal content targets ...

Pull Tabs are non-ferrous so that doesn't matter when discussing 'Iron Trash.'

If you are finding some iron targets, or other metal objects that are a blend of iron pieces and non-iron pieces, then you are talking about finding Iron Trash, and that's where an 'Avid Detectorist' has an advantage over the typical 'Traditional Coin Hunter' hobbyist. Often, the more 'avid' folks know ferrous junk is out there and [size=small](they, we, I)[/size] go out of our way to find older-use sites that tend to have a lot of it to deal with. The real advantage is the more Avid Detectorist really wants to deal with the Iron Trash!

We want to because we know that many desirable targets, especially at the older sites we select but also in many urban settings, causes a lot of good-target masking. What others have missed, or possibly could miss, we want to find, and that means knowing where Iron Targets are, and especially learning how to best deal with them. Selecting the best metal detector and coil combination for a given site is very important to us, and we even go a step farther. We don't use a bold amount of Discrimination to reject ALL iron, just barely enough to reject the most annoying Iron Target ... Nails.

Also, with many of the newer models from some manufacturers, the ability to unmask a keeper that is close to Iron Nails and similar ferrous junk allows us to use a much lower Discriminate setting and be able to HEAR the Iron Trash Target. Then we rely of other detector functions to help us, such as Tone ID and in recent years, Iron Audio Volume adjustment.

But mostly the iron I encounter is in the dirt... High iron content mineralized dirt. And it isn't a lot in my areas.. Doesn't basic discrimination on most machines remove the iron pick up of the Iron mineralization in the dirt. ????

When folks are referring to dealing with Iron Trash or Iron Junk or just 'Iron,' we are referring to man-made objects that were produced from steel/iron. I believe the biggest offender is the Iron Nail, often heavily scattered where old buildings have been torn down or destroyed by storms or fire at older locations.

But, Iron Nails were also tossed aside or lost during other types of construction than just homes and barns. In old sites and in an earlier era, a lot of things were shipped/freighted in crates and to tear open a crate, nails get discarded. There are the smaller-size boot and shoe nails, horse shoe nails, and all sorts of medium and larger-size nails. Yes, it is those man-made ferrous items that cause us grief, and most average hobbyists just ignore them by use of Discrimination.

What you are referring to is the various levels of Fe[sub]3[/sub]O[sub]4[/sub], Ferrous Oxide or Black Sand, and the amounts of a high mineralized soil content. Yes, that level of 'bad ground' can be dealt with, and is ... that's what Ground Balance adjustment is designed for. Ground Balance is simply a variable 'discrimination' adjustment we can make to slightly accept, slightly ignore, or just make a 'spot-on' cancelation of the ground mineral signal.

Some better makes of detector models do provide a broader Discriminate mode adjustment on the very low end to help deal with [size=small](reject)[/size] some problem Hot Rock we might encounter, and this is found on models that are more functional or versatile for uses even like Gold Nugget Prospecting in varied mineral ground. The Iron Ground Mineralization is mainly dealt with via the detector's Ground Balance setting.

I asked because I see some detectors claim "works in high iron trash areas".

"Finds deep targets." ... "Discriminates unwanted junk." ... "Finds hidden treasure." .... "Works in iron trash." --- There are all sorts of things manufacturers say to try and promote what they need to sell, and many things they say are true ... to a point!

"Finds deep targets" is all a matter of what the consumer perceives 'deep' to be, and in all cases, any metal detector will find targets to a level that their deepest abilities might achieve.

"Discriminates unwanted junk" is an easy one because you can set a maximum rejection range detector at the maximum Discriminate setting and reject ALL junk you don't want. Of course you'll be rejecting everything else as well, but the marketing lingo could be proven true.

"Finds hidden treasures" can happen, if there is a 'treasure' there [size=small](whatever that means)[/size] and if it is findable based upon the detector settings and ability.

"Works in high iron trash areas" is maybe the easiest to say because ALL metal detectors with battery power and an On/Off control, can 'work' in a trashy or non-trashy area. They might work in an iron trashy site, but the important thing here is to know if they work well or not when it comes to dealing with the Iron Trash and being able to respond to a near-by desired non-ferrous target. That's were most detectors out there fall short.

Not so much a claim to high mixed mineral areas. Of which I do not have in my area anyway.

The mineralized ground environment can be important to know and deal with, but there are, or have been, some detectors that do not work well because regardless of the actual ground conditions, they have a predetermined or preset Ground Balance that can impair their performance.

I think, I, like some of you would rather have a all around detector that works OK everywhere..Rather than what I would see as a specialized High Iron trash detector some sell.

Elton, there are several excellent "all-around" or "multi-purpose" detectors on the market that can handle any mineralized ground quite well, work fine for typical day-to-day Coin Hunting, and still excel over most when it comes to providing some of the best Iron Trash handling you could imagine.

Matter of fact, there are several on the market right now that are also excellent Gold Nugget hunting detectors, and that is a 'specialized' type of detector design, not one that deals in High Iron Trash.

I did have a reason for asking...I mostly wanted to verify if what I perceived as Iron Trash was iron trash, or just mixed metal junk.

Iron Trash IS Iron Trash. It is not referring to Iron mineralized ground, and it is not referring to Non-Ferrous Trash such as Foil or Pull Tabs or Screw Caps, or aluminum can slaw, etc. It is just a reference to any man-made object that falls in the ferrous/iron category.

Tom gave an excellent response and described the types of typical ferrous junk we might encounter, and the most prevalent in a wide range of locations would be the Iron Nail.. But he included other things we might encounter that are ferrous targets such as crimp-on Bottle Caps, Rusty Tin from cans or roofing material, and a lot more. All of this Iron Trash is not in a natural form, but is man-made objects and that creates a problem because mad has taken the very low conductive iron and shaped it into various forms that enhance the conductivity and that creates a problem with out modern, motion-based Discriminators to deal with.

I would like to give Tom a 'Thank You' for his kind comments, and yes, my Nail Board Performance Test is an excellent tool for any Avid Detectorist, or someone trying to learn more about a detector's ability, when it comes to truly being able to "work in high iron trash areas" and be able to be successful at it!

City Coin Shooters and Rural Relic Hunters are all going to encounter some degree of Iron Trash at the sites they hunt. If the urban search group think they have been finding-it-all due to reliance on their detector's Discrimination capabilities and referring to all the visual Target ID and VDI read-outs they have .... they might not realize just how much they have been missing. One of the reasons good targets get missed is because of the bad targets [size=small](often Iron)[/size] that are there, but not known to the average Hobbyist.

Doubters can learn a lot about the presence of Iron Trash by simply picking one of their favorite urban Coin Hunting sites that they have hunted well, and mark off a 50'X50' grid. Then patiently search the entire area, overlapping as we should normally be doing, and hunt in a Threshold-based All Metal mode and recover ALL targets. Glance at their visual display, if they have one, but do NOT use any Discrimination. Just search in a true All Metal mode and dig-it-all.

When finished with a thorough search and recovery of only 50 feet by 50 feet, sort out the keepers, then sort out the non-ferrous Trash and the Iron Junk, It will be surprising.

Monte

PS: Anyone want to learn more about how your detector(s) and search coils work in some older sites with a challenging level of Iron Trash? Come join us on a 'Welcome-to-Hunt Outing' this year. Tom made it to one of the two we held last year, and our plans are to have at least two, and possibly three WTHO's this year, and Tom will confirm that sites like those we hunted last year would be a real answer to Elton's question about what Iron Trash really is. There's no charge or anything, just decide if you want to come have some fun and meet others who are crazy about this great outdoor sport. The Outings are open to anyone.

 

[Frank in NH]

n/t

 

[SteveP(NH)]

Hey Frank,

Mostly been out at Salisbury near beach 6, at least for the winter. I had some shoulder issues last summer and fall so didn't get out much then but shoulder is much better now a days. Bernie K and I are planning on hunting at Jenness tomorrow (the 31st) should get there around 9:30 or so and hunt there until at least 11:30 depending on how the targets are there. We hit Salisbury at low tide this morning but was mostly just trash - a lot of busted up lobster trap wire and iron. We did get a little clad but nothing else. I've been hearing that the targets are better up north a little ways so its Jenness tomorrow.


I'm still swinging that T2 SE I bought from you when I am land hunting. At the salt water beaches I'm using a Garrett Infinium PI machine for the time being. Plus I am still running the NH metal detecting forum so I am always hanging around there.

 

[Elton]

Thanks Men I appreciate the answer you both gave me.