KHz

[IowaRelic]

Can some one help me understand how different frequencies affect ability to detect certain metals. I understand the principle of low frequency for high conductors at depth and high frequency for tiny targets and low conductors like pewter and gold. My question is can a high kHz machine be as good on silver and brass as it is on gold? I’m trying to see the benefits of the vista gold gain vs say the smart plus. Where I’m at the chances of finding gold is minimal, perhaps an old coin or jewelry but no nuggets. However watching calabash digger, he has commented that the new thing is use high frequency coil like on the Deus and hit iron infested sites. Is there really a benefit here?

 

[Ziggy J]

Hello there, just got home from digging and after dinner I will put my two cents in

 

[Ziggy J]

Saying that I think I could help by actually trying some tests tomorrow and filming the results and the posting.... bare with me and I will do some direct comparison tests on both the Smart and Vista Gold Gain and then edit and post the video either tomorrow or Wednesday ok.

It’s easy to say this and that but in order to obtain some facts identical controlled tests need to made.

 

[IowaRelic]

Saying that I think I could help by actually trying some tests tomorrow and filming the results and the posting.... bare with me and I will do some direct comparison tests on both the Smart and Vista Gold Gain and then edit and post the video either tomorrow or Wednesday ok.

It’s easy to say this and that but in order to obtain some facts identical controlled tests need to made.

Hey, thanks for going through the trouble!!! I’m patient. I would love to see the results!

 

[Frank in NH]

Looking forward to you findings, as I use the Vista Smart Plus.

 

[Ziggy J]

Hello there again.

Well this is a tricky subject when it comes down to you exact question, I was going to film the results from in the field and the indoors controlled tests but they came up inconclusive so to say when talking of different metals.

I can see the difference around iron and in mineralised ground what the higher kHz VGG fairs better in both situations, more sharper around the iron and detects better in mineralised tests.
When it comes down to the different metals the VGG and the Vista Smart faired the same what my ears was telling me if not a little sharper on the VGG.

What I will try next is place the super six coils on both and try the field and controlled tests again and see if I can make the difference show at the end of the detection depth on both, depth is the key where I feel the difference should lay, it’s also hard when both machines are very good allrounders.

Maybe the differences will show more on the Vista Mini that’s 7.6 kHz and the VGG with it’s high 30 kHz so I feel this should revel a real true difference there.

I will run these tests tomorrow and also set up some real awkward targets this time and report soon as I’ve done them ok.

 

[IowaRelic]

Hello there again.

Well this is a tricky subject when it comes down to you exact question, I was going to film the results from in the field and the indoors controlled tests but they came up inconclusive so to say when talking of different metals.

I can see the difference around iron and in mineralised ground what the higher kHz VGG fairs better in both situations, more sharper around the iron and detects better in mineralised tests.
When it comes down to the different metals the VGG and the Vista Smart faired the same what my ears was telling me if not a little sharper on the VGG.

What I will try next is place the super six coils on both and try the field and controlled tests again and see if I can make the difference show at the end of the detection depth on both, depth is the key where I feel the difference should lay, it’s also hard when both machines are very good allrounders.

Maybe the differences will show more on the Vista Mini that’s 7.6 kHz and the VGG with it’s high 30 kHz so I feel this should revel a real true difference there.

I will run these tests tomorrow and also set up some real awkward targets this time and report soon as I’ve done them ok.

I think multi frequency is the real benefit. Having simultaneous evaluation of the target over multiple frequencies I believe is what c digger has been showing as an eye opener. So maybe just one low or high fixed frequency still just has it’s already known benefits. That’s my best understanding. Thanks for taking time for this, and I’m really looking forward to more!!

 

[Ziggy J]

Right I had to break it down in to smaller scale tests and compared not just with the Vista Gold and Smart but also two other changeable kHz machines.

The results are consistent in my findings.

I found that on Gold the the higher kHz of the Vista Gold Gain does hit more way more consistent to the point it’s a 100% way more effective in detecting gold items, to be expected so to say, as for higher conducting metals the results level out, so I was getting the same mixed audio results on small copper and silver items on the Vista Gold and Vista Smart.

Now I’ve found the differences I hope to video this and publish either tonight or tomorrow.

So I would say that the higher kHz machines are just as good on the high conductors as the lower kHz machines for instance 15 kHz in the controlled tests that I’ve done.

Will make this video and show

 

[IowaRelic]

Excellent peace of mind to know that high kHz will perform on high conductors as well. Good testing. No would you prefer that higher kHz in extreme iron ? Like thin rusty strips and larger spikes and such?

 

[Ziggy J]

Pardon the pun by that’s nailed on,... I do like the edgeyness of a high kHz machine in iron, but I guess it depend on your needs personally, if you are happy with going with the larger targets in iron then I would say the lower kHz will do you fine and give you a bit more stability, but my preference is for stipping the iron back to the bone, I find the higher kHz machines do this better and gives you the best chance to find the smaller stuff around iron.

The thing with metal detecting there is no such person that’s an expert or perfect machine or kHz, so tests and field outcomes will vary from machine to soils to targets to user to basically everything, park hunters can call a certain coin but place a park hunter on a old busy homestead with nails and junk and all sorts of other old ancient crap then get him/her to identify the signals, impossible!... Rust forms in many shapes and sizes and can give many different audio responses depending on depth and size, soils with different mineralised content throws target respons, what I’m trying to get at is get a machine you enjoy to swing, depending on what you want from a machine when targets size is concerned pick a good rounded kHz, 18 seems to be a well rounded choice, match your sweep speed to the fields iron content, keep your disc as low as you dare, methodical sweeping and checking of targets from all angles and you will become content providing your happy with the machines basic feel and functions.

The reason I love the deeptech machines is not because I work for them, I just know the machines work well against near all machines out there and they perform great and don’t make a song or dance doing so, I’ve loved deeptech machines long before I started working for the company, anyone who knows me can look back in my media even before the videos or Facebook on forums and see my words about deeptech machines.

Detecting and detectors don’t have to be complicated to be productive, you just need to understand the limits of a machine and work within the parameters be it recovery speed or depth... but more importantly it’s about enjoying the hobby, lately I’ve been using the Vista Mini Max, 18 kHz single toned machine with three dials, volume sensitivity and disc, I’ve been having a blast, just listening for the prominent high tones and digging many targets in each session has been great.... it’s not all about settings and so on that you look around and many are talking about but enjoyment should be the main goal.

 

[IowaRelic]

Again, great info and insight there. So would you say in your experience that the VGG maintains a good depth on high conductors compared with the VSP? Does that high frequency bring in the depth handicap as one would expect? Or are you able to pull brass and silver, copper small items at 8+ inches in mild ground? My vaquero will sniff out lead up to small brass at 8-10”. Im just looking for an edge in separation yes but also have needs for depth in cattle pasture. I’m leaning towards the VSP as a great all around relic hunter. Thanks. You guys are a great company. Wish you the best. Looking forward to what you guys develope next.

 

[therover]

The VGG is a great all around detector for both low AND high conductive targets. It will find deep silver with the best of them.

Recovery speed, iron separation from non-ferrous targets, the ability to manually GB, set iron volume and the audio are the true gems of this unit.

No matter what DeepTech unit you get, you will be happy with it.

 

[IowaRelic]

It’s funny because some of us have been saying how we would love expanded disc range on one of these, BUT, after watching weeks of videos and comparisons of top models from several reputable detectorists, I have one conclusion. We ALL are being fooled by junk targets reguardless of the detector and skill. Yes some are better than others. But it’s back to why I chose Tesoro to start on. Performance with no extra, gives you ability to hone your skills on tone and nuance. I consistently hit what I believe are some of the most challenging sites for a detector and it’s operator. I cut my teeth in 1800s farms that are modern dumps and homes that have been fallen in since the 80s. So it’s a lot of aluminum, foil and iron. I have been extremely frustrated but it’s what it is here in the Midwest. I have exactly a dozen country permissions that fit this scenario. All 1850’s-1880s then built over, dozed, lived on until modern times etc.
so far, I can’t unlock my favorite site with my vaquero. It just can not handle it. There is flat thin iron crust at all levels of depth. Like someone blew barrels to pieces. It’s unreal. The original home was built in 1857 by a Kentucky judge turned union and came north. He used freed slaves and paid them to build a 21 room mansion of stone and mortar on our current property. It was a 2,000 acre property over looking the Mississippi. He had 8 children. He was an 1812 vet, he had one son a confederate soldier and another union. They both lived here before and after the war. The story here is epic and I have been detecting the 85 year old rubble that has extensive 70s era trash for many hours and it is TOUGH. Rocky, minerals, roots.... so far oldest coin 1916 wheatie, some lantern pieces with pat date of 1870, a harmonica reed, an aluminum hair comb... few old buckles. Absolutely none of it was deep except iron stove parts horseshoes.

I will buy a deeptech for this site alone. I am convinced finds of a life time for this area exist here.
http://www.mississippivalleypublishing.com/editorials/mansion-was-a-symbol-of-his-abolitionist-view/article_daa96aaf-04ec-558d-83c6-708c1f70875f.html
Here is a good idea what’s up. And why I’m willing to spend money for the home sites on my property.

 

[Ziggy J]

Sounds like a very interesting site you have there indeed.... it’s good when such places become available.

Also thought I would share some words with you that a fellow American hunter left on the UK DeepTech Facebook Page.


Chuck Acton

In the last few months I study and chose to buy a New Deeptech Model as my main Relic Hunting Machine here in USA to Search Civil War Relics. I Pick Warrior Model and in short time is prove to be Super Deep Seeker . The Warrior best machine I ever used in high Iron laiden sites to find deep relics with out loss of depth and hunt any soils condtion with Max Depth and super stable. I have.found Coins, Buttons Bullet at 12 Inch ++ In all my hard Hit Sties that have been picked clean by model's costing double the price and other season hunters . Relic Hunting here in USA is very competive hobby , few sites to hunt and site that you can hunt and open have been hunted hard in many cases over 30 plus years and in mosly in woods not feilds. I have been Relic Hunting over 35 plus years and use many other brands that claim to be the deepest and sadly there claims are false. The Deeptech design based on Pure Depth,Super Stable, Great Disc. and easy to use. Many Other Brands are Loaded with Options that dont add more depth.Sadly many mostly New in Hobby fall in "Trap" buying other brands and also buying new machine when any come up and think ,the more the better . The Deep/Tech Model you don"t see for Sale on many Forms or Web site Vs other Brands for a good reason the owners are happy with Deep/Tech Machines. Remember, If dont ever Dig ANY large Iron or use High Disc Settings to try to Knock out all Big Iron you for sure missing deep Items and reducing Max Depth to find items others have missed. In Metal Dectecting Hobby no matter what looking for to be successful First, Learn and understand machine!! ,Research your sites ,and lastly the most important the more Hours you hunt in the feild you chance to make finds will go up and more you will find.! I have new 14 Epic Coil on the way for my Warrior to go ever deeper then Standard Coil to rework some hard hunted feilds in near future . I hope the above info will be useful to all Deep/tech Users here On FB and may 2019 New Year will bring all folks great new finds!

 

[IowaRelic]

That’s a great post. I have seen his posts during my research reguarding deeptech. For those in my boat, stuck unsure how to spend your money, I like to skip to the end of hunt videos and watch the wrap ups, the junk to good find ratio is often just like what I dig with my vaquero. Hence proving to me that a myriad of extra settings is not necessary. It pays off to research and save that money.
Zingy I have watched your test vid in the black devil 2 pro, and the hunt in single tone video, how do you feel about that machine? It passes tests, did it prove itself in the field for you?

 

[Ziggy J]

I couldn’t say for certaim reasons right now about the machine you ask about sorry.

I have done a video here comparing the the 15 kHz Smart Vs the 30 KHz VGG, I will upload it to YouTube but unfortunately I can’t get the Video from my phone to Mac at the moment to upload but if you’re on Facebook here is the link https://www.facebook.com/383032841856382/posts/1171333289692996/

I will do the non mineralised version soon.

 

[IowaRelic]

Yeah, I realized after that post that it was a mis step on my part... however, I talked with Richard at backwoods and he is going to shoot me a deal on a Warrior with the super six at a good price. I should be able to order within two weeks. His “how did I miss that” video sold me. After many many weeks of research I think it will fit my needs well. And ziggy, my son and I have watched nearly all of your vids, great work and thank you for all your time!

 

[Ziggy J]

Thank you for your kind words truly, it’s nice to hear, I hope your son becomes a great Searcher and finds some lovely items... .
I’ve now made two short videos and will post here within the hour once uploaded to YouTube.

 

[Ziggy J]

Here are the videos, after further testing I can confirm that the 15 kHz hits stronger on deep silver in clean Non Mineralised Soil and both are exactly the same on the gold coin at depth in Non Mineralised Soil.

But here is the test videos in Mineralised Soil on the gold coin and silver coin in Non Mineralised Soil

15 kHz Vs 30 kHz Mineralised Soil
https://youtu.be/rYy-tCWFV14

15 kHz Vs 30 kHz Non Mineralised Soil
https://youtu.be/bjhsR9xp_jg

 

[IowaRelic]

That difference is huge in hot dirt....