Laws make detecting tough these days!

[Tom_in_CA]

Well I know you're speaking in jest, but the root of what your saying has some basis in it: Namely that we are doing an awkward thing (swinging a "geiger-counter thingy") that attracts attention. Passerbys naturally think to themselves "gee what is that guy doing?", because it's not an ordinary activity. And then it just devolves from there: "gee I wonder if he'll leave a hole", and so forth.

So sometimes the best advice is to be a little discreet. Eg.: just like nose-picking: You don't advertise it, and no one cares. For this reason, it's gotten to where I do most of my hunting at night, or very awkward times (outside of 8am to 5pm, etc...). NOT because I necessarily think I'm doing anything wrong, but just to avoid the lookie-lou busy-body sore-thumb psychology.

 

[teviotlad]

i laugh when i get suspected of some crime when i am detecting on parkland, up to my knees in dog5hit. some of our parks are basically open sewers, but as soon as peeps think i might dig a plug, i.m demonised. makes ya laff. the problem here is because your like detectin all the sheep think your a freak cos your not at home watchin dancin with the stars. people have become brainwashed and are not tolerant to anybody outside mainstream opinion.

 

[denny-o]

The culture of fear is pervasive...
The normal response of any bureaucrat to any, even slightly unusual, request for permission is "NO"... They cannot be fired or censured for saying no - and likely they will get an 'attaboy' at review time for having the highest 'no' count... So, you ask and the normal response will be NO... (don't ask if you don't want to hear it)

OTOH, usually you will not be arrested for being on public land if the officer says, 'you can't be doing that' and you answer, 'gee I didn't know that officer... I'll leave right now, SIR, and thank you for letting me know'...

One word that has to be erased from your brain is DIG... You do NOT dig - you recover lost items for return to their owners...
Every night as you lay in bed repeat over and over until you fall asleep, "I RECOVER I RETURN" so that your tongue does not slip up and use the D word...

Another hobby that is also under attack is photography... Just like detecting, photographers go about their activity, bother no one, leave no holes, and are constantly being accosted by everyone from passerbys to officers... There is a group on the web of photographers who have for downloading an Official looking document you can print out, that lists your rights to photograph in public spaces (with state/federal statute numbers, etc. , to photograph public buildings, and so forth... My response to this thread would be that detectorists need to take a cue from the photographers and use that document as the basis for one that detectorists can carry...

Folks who like to hang around the airport and shoot photos of the airliners taking off framed against a scenic sunset, etc. get hammered all the time, - often by rent-a-cop types... The police officers can usually be reasoned with (though you have to leave if they give you an order) and generally don't go nuts if you are tactful... Best would be a couple of 8X10 photos of a dramatic take off or landing to give one to the officer as proof of your activity (that you did not take the photo is meaningless)
The rent-a-cops, there is no reasoning with... They will threaten you, attempt to physically take your camera, and on, and on... You have to decide if it is worth your time to confront them...

The times, they are a changin...

denny-o

 

[Sailorman]

I think this is one place for clubs to start getting more positively pro active. I know ours is. Not get in your face and demand our rights pro active but meeting with civic leaders, trying to get positive coverage in the press, etc. In this day in age if we don't get better organized and show the public what great and inoffensive folks we are, we'll lose it.

I'm in the early stages right now of planning a hunt for kids in wheelchairs with a nationally known charity. They actually want to make sure we get tons of free and high quality PR as it raises the awareness of the needs of these kids and makes us look great for caring. I'm honestly NOT in this for the PR but to give something to these kids. BUT if we can get some great news coverage, why not?

We have to start making ourselves look better in the public eye. It's not that hard. Maybe if all the clubs out there put forth a little more effort we could stave off some of the negative stereotyping going on.

For years I've had a motto "You are either part of the problem or part of the solution. There are no other choices." Inaction is always part of the problem. Do what you will!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Sailorman, you say:

"........but meeting with civic leaders, trying to get positive coverage in the press, etc. In this day in age if we don't get better organized and show the public what great and inoffensive folks we are, we'll lose it."

&

"We have to start making ourselves look better in the public eye....." etc....

I'm not so sure of this tactic of trying to be as visible as possible, & get loved as much as possible, etc... is a good thing. Because if you read through this thread, you will see that by trying to be "sanctioned", "loved" and "permissioned" is the very thing that brings the "no's". So on the contrary, perhaps if we md'rs STOP making ourselves a big red bullseye target, is better?

Personally, I don't think you/we can erase the image that we might leave holes (because let's face it, we DO have to "recover" items, no matter how much you sugar coat it), and I don't think you'll ever get archies to "love" us either, as they are diametrically opposed to our goals (and let's face it: they're the ones on the govt. payroll). So why not stop making ourselves a target, by thinking we need sanctions?

 

[mudpuppy]

How come we are self appointed guardians of some vague law? How come we are supposed to live up to some strange code of ethics regarding trespassing and returning lost items? People say, "You wouldnt want somebody trespassing on YOUR property wouldja?" Well, if I didn't KNOW about it, it would not bother me in the least! In every small town paper and on major news outlets theres been countless articles about some metal detector who "did good", dang! theres one there about me! has any of that press made it easier on us? NO! So just get out there and swing that coil, and the hell with it! Laws come and go, apologize and leave, act like a stupid old man who didn't know any better. Or do like what Tom in Ca suggests, be very discreet and invisible as possible. Cripes! Theres so many dang laws we all break several every day, its just the enforcement you have to worry about! Didja see that one old lady from Marblehead MA that may go to jail for feeding ducks? Law says you cant do it..did that stop her? NO! Yet here we are, a bunch of supposed Pirate treasure hunters worrying about breaking some sort of Law! Meanwhile, the clock is ticking, its a big World, small coil, and theres a lot of ground to cover! Yo Heave Ho me Hearties! Ransack season is open!
Mud

 

[Sailorman]

Well Tom, I'm going tp disagree with you but politely so. I've been a lifelong shooting sports enthusiest and shooter. Many in the shooting world took this approach for the last several decades and what did they get? More and more restrictive laws to the point that just building a shooting range is darn near impossible. I know, I tried it once.

If there is a segment of the population that has less then perfect ideas about you hobby then you better be vigilint and pro active or you will slowly lose what you have. It happens over and over. Do you know that even kite flying is banned in some areas? I used to be into that as well. Living aboard your boat has even been made illegal in a few places and I do that as well. If you won't stand up to these people you WILL slowly lose all. I fear pretending there isn't trouble has never worked that I have seen. Any more you have to win the spin war.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

"Do you know that even kite flying is banned in some areas?"

&

"Living aboard your boat has even been made illegal in a few places "

My answer to these points is, that kite-flying is probably banned in ALL places, if you asked enough bureacurats, rangers, etc.... All you need to do is, ask. And be sure to use buzz-words like poking someone's eye out with the sharp edge of a kite, and the potential for interupting the migratory flight pattern of some endangered bird. Presto, you can get a "no" in every place you ask. But you, as a kite-flyer, know this is ridiculous, right? And you know that there's TONS of places where no one cares if you fly a kite, right? And why is that? Because NO ONE'S GONE AND SOUGHT CLARIFICATIONS AND PERMISSION.

Same for your 2nd point. You think it's illegal in only a "few" places to live aboard your boat? Heck, it merely means you haven't asked enough questions, of enough housing authority marine harbor places, in the other places that you *think* allow it.

Now apply the above psychological principles to md'ing, and what does this tell you?

 

[Elton]

 

[Sailorman]

No Tom, permission was never asked. Busy bodies decided that flying a kite was dangerous, ordinances were passed and if you just head out to the beach in a deserted stretch and fly the patrol will come by, take your equipment and hand you a fine.

The laws banning living aboard also were never about asking permission, I don't know of any that ever did, but again busy bodies and misperceptions resulting in sweeping laws that we as a community have learned we have to stand up and fight hard against. When the liveaboard communities stopped pretending there wasn't a problem, organized themselves and started using all the tools from the press to politics they started winning some of the battles and are gaining back some of the lost ground.

Yet if i am observed by someone spending more than something like six nights a month on my boat in one nearby state I'm in for fines and a cease and desist order. They tried the don't ask don't tell routine there and that's what happened to them.