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Melted lead????

A

Anonymous

Guest
I find a lot of melted lead in my CW site. I was wondering the reason why there's so much. Is it because of boredom and the troops are just throwing their bullets in the fire? Where I hunt was occupied by N.C. confederate troops during the winter. They were there to guard the R.R. bridge, tracks and telegraph lines. According to the O.R. of the CW these troops were very poorly equiped and didn't have many guns nor ammo enough to drill with. For that reason I can't see them waisting bullets in the fires. On top of that the melted lead is spread over the majority of a 25 acre spot and not really in no concentrations. Could this melted lead be from molding bullets in the field? I have found a few pcs. of lead that looks like mold sprue cut-offs and lots of round balls with mold sprues not cut off flush. Does anybody have any suggestions as to the reason there's melted lead? <img src="/metal/html/help.gif" border=0 width=23 height=15 alt=":help">
Scott
P.S. This is just some of it.
 
I find it here in ARK. also. My notion is that in some places like here,where they were not camped for very long,they used the powder and paper the bullet was wrapped in to start fires. And places where they were camped for a long time they would throw the wet catridges in the fire. That is just my idea, I havent got a clue. I know that I dig a bunch of melted lead in fire pits and that is the only reason I can figure that they are there. Down here they were pretty well supplied in most cases, so they could have afforded to waste some. I have never found any melted lead that I thought was the result of building bullets. Just my 2 cents worth...Tim
 
I don't find it in concentrations, it's scattered and it has similar patina as the CW bullets I find there. Thanks for the reply. HH <img src="/metal/html/smile.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":)">
Scott
 
Scott:
Melted lead is one of the more common relics in a CW camp and is usually the result of bullet making. This was a common activity of any camp.
BUT since you are around a RR, it also had a lot of uses for lead or even old churches where lead was used for windows. If the camping/guarding group was in need of it then they may have foraged for it and may have obtained a lot and spilled a lot making bullets. I have been in camps and found busted brass school bells. Pieces were being broken off and used for something. 25 acres is a big area usually lead casting is at the perifery of the camp or concentrated in a few "whittle and spit" locations so you might consider multiple occupancy where each occupying group cast lead in a different place.
Dave
 
My best guess is from molding bullets over the campfires. Here is a pic of a 4 hour hunt recently at a Union camp. The melted lead was everywhere.
 
You found all of that in 4 hours Marc????
That's more than I find in several days anymore!!!!!
All I want to know is when are you taking me with you???? <img src="/metal/html/lol.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":lol"> <img src="/metal/html/smile.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":)"> I won't be in the way and I'll be good and help you dig some of those targets so you don't have to get your hands so dirty or hurt your back. Please, please can I go, can I go please???? Where abouts are you at in VA.? I'm in Bristol, TN. not far from Abingdon. HH <img src="/metal/html/smile.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":)">
Scott
 
It is commonly thought that finding melted lead in a CW camp is directly related to bullet casting. This is rarely the case. Why, you might ask? Consider this: Most cartridges from the CW consisted of a paper tube containing the bullet (projectile) and powder. One end of the paper tube was tied, the other folded. The bullet itself was coated with a lubricant (melted bee's wax and Mutton tallow or Sheep fat). This natural lube helped ram the bullet down the barrel and "season" the barrel, just like an old cast iron skillet gets seasoned with use. Petroleum based lube would seize up the bullet, preventing proper seating over the powder charge. If you were a Soldier in the field, you would need 1. lead, 2. bullet mold, 3. lube, 4. powder (2F powder) 5. paper to roll cartridges, 6. string (similar to modern cotton Kite string). There lies the problem. Having all of these components handy. Keep in mind that the Military did not issue bullet molds as standard accouterments, and, if the troops had been casting their own bullets, where are the bullet molds? Would we not dig them often? Pistols on the other hand were purchased as a cased set: Walnut/Oak box, pistol, powder flask, tin of percussion caps, gun tool, and bullet mold. Pistol bullet molds are found on occasion, but any molds for carbines or rifles would be considered rare. I'm not saying field casting wasn't done, it was, but only on rare occasions. Also, when the South was able to get the Whitworth sharpshooters rifle through the blockade, only the cylindrical rifles came with bullet molds. We have followed the trail of field casting from Hood's TN campaign. The Hex bullets were superior but were supplied with the Whitworth's. These rare bullets were manufactured in England and were sized (with a sizing die). Dropped examples have been found here in middle TN. The suggestion that all Whitworth bullets were cylindrical and only "hex formed" by firing does not fly with me, as I have dug both examples; fired and dropped. If you are finding lead sprues from field casting, they are very distinct, and would prove of such activity. Where does all the melted lead come from? Each evening, troops were required to clean their rifle and cartridge box in preparation for the next mornings inspection by the First Sargeant. This was generally done before breakfast. Any paper cartridge that had gotten wet, torn or in the case of the Confederate Gardner case: saturated and torn due to the bullet lube, would have been discarded in trash pits or fire pits. Union troops especially were instructed to discard unfit ammunition by destroying it, or rending it unusable, less it fall into Confederate hands for redistribution or recycling. Southern cities under siege were more prone to have Southern troops scavenging for lead and bullet molds as they could depend on local civilians to help manufacture ammunition. Bottom line is this: both armies were supplied with cartridges from arsenals. Soldiers had more pressing things to do than manufacture their own ammunition. Starting fires with powder will work, but it only takes a very small amount of powder flash to ignite kindling or paper. Most melted lead from fire pits is due from discarding, not bullet casting. Hope this helps clear up a controversial question. Good hunting, David @ Dixie <center><a href="http://www.dixie-metal-detectors.com"><img src="/metal/html/d-m.jpg"></center>
 
Wow.. I can't remember a discussion like this in a long time. That's what we are all here for. David makes a lot of good points and it makes sense that bullet cartridges would be supplied BUT what I don't understand is the distribution of the lead around campsites. If much of the lead was wet cartridge/fouling discards into fires would we not see concentrations of lead in the fire pit areas and nowhere else? Campfires did not move around a campsite. Yet in areas where the relic field is tight, i.e., little or no plowing after the fact. we see lead all over and in places far away from the main campsite even in rifle practice areas. Most commonly to me the lead is scattered around the edges of a camp where you would expect some campfires and casting. Also, I have found sprue tips and casting slag in the shape of the casting pot. We also see sprues on dropped bullets and even poorly cast or "cold cast" bullets. Could arsenals be so careless? Oh, well, now you have me pondering, David.
DP
 
I've dug over 12,000 CW bullets and have honestly stopped counting. Not trying to brag, only say that I have yet to ever dig a casting sprue from any bullet. I believe the reason is: 1. There was no casting going on in the camp, 2. The sprues were remelted and used, or 3. Reason unknown. Lead was carved, chewed (boredom), hammered, hammered and rolled, smashed with heavy objects, chopped (swords/axes), melted, melted and formed (while hot) and a variety of other abuses. Men would clean the ashes out of fire pits on occasion, especially before an inspection by the Regiment or Brigade Commander. It doesn't take long to bake the ground into an almost brick hard condition. So ashes, debris and even melted lead would have been scooped, shoveled or swept out of the shallow fire pit and discarded outside the camp perimeter. You can imagine a Soldier picking up a piece of melted lead and hurling it at a comrade across the company street. Getting hit will half and ounce of lead would smart. Boys will be boys...at any age. Having been involved in CW reenacting since the mid 1980s, I've seen first hand (but only a small glimpse) of how our forefathers lived during those hard times. Early war camps, especially Southern camps would lend more likelihood of field casting. Read ordnance reports and try to find where they issued bullet molds. Slim pickin's. Another myth is the chewed "hospital site" bullet. Think about lying on your back while men held you down and a Surgeon saws your leg off. You won't be chewing on a bullet. You would swallow it during a scream and choke to death. Doctors had leather and wood dowel thongs to clamp your teeth down on. Men chewed bullets out of boredom, just as they carved them. They knew nothing of germs or lead poisoning. I find plenty of chewed bullets in camps, picket posts, old house sites and any place they were. I have found where pistol bullets were being poured/cast, as well as where Whitworth cylindrical bullets were being cast. But if you have a positive ID on a casting sprue, that is a true uncommon find, and I would call it Cool! Good hunting, David
 
David:
OH...I like what you are saying and never thought about it in that way. Fragments of melted lead could be pitched or thrown around a camp very easily with firepit cleanout. Here is where your experience (and my inexperience) can help. How much lead is trapped in a typical "fouled" weapon? And how often were weapons cleaned? That might allow us to back calculate (ballpark) numbers of troops present by totaling melted lead. Also if pits were cleaned out it and significant lead thrown about, it also implies to me a long camp and the reverse is also true.. small amounts of lead in a tight relic field (non plowed) implies a short stay. I'm speaking or writing only in general terms. Your thoughts?
<p><img border="1" src="http://www.pochefamily.org/weather/relic%20images/cuttings.jpg"></p>
What about the above. Pistol? Partner found them in a picket site with very few pistol bullets mostly rifle bullets.
Tell me more.
Dave
 
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