mike5853 .. tabman .. Les in the UK .. plidn1 --- I tried to reply to you below but, it was 'closed.'

[Monte]

Monte - I always find your posts, interesting, many very helpful - thanks. What path Tesoro decides to take, where they land is in their hands, no question. As an experienced user of all the top "high tech" detectors, I can objectively say regardless of Tesoros use of technology, I find their detectors just as capable of finding the goods.

In some conditions, such as working a dense nail infested site, the Tesoro's are very tough to beat, or even match. Many competitor's models simply don't come close.

I don't have a problem with Tesoro's use of the basic circuitry they have mainly stuck with, and if they stay away from all digital electronics that's quite fine with me. However, to stay current with the industry trends they might want to explore the digital route (electronics and not just the display type), or at least work on some models that still are based more on the analog design.

For me, I prefer to grab my Vaquero or Outlaw when I go out. I found I didn't need to spend $1,500 to find a silver dime 8" below the surface, my Vaquero's done that a few times.

I had three Vaqueros and never felt they provided me with any impressive depth. Matter of fact, the

 

[Bucksport]

Well said Monte.

 

[dixiedigger57]

I have never seen Monte pull a punch or make excuses. He says it is what it is, from what i have read. He shows the good, the bad, the ugly. his tests are not just legendary, they are a standard of the industry, and a guide for all. His explainations to me have been at a level of my non engineering knowledge, just plain english, so i could understand as a hobbyist. he does not TELL you to buy this or buy that, he simply tests, explains his tests, and why it works that way. He has his preferences that works for him. he emphasizes no majik wand machine. he worked in the industry and uses an array of machines.

Monte gives a fact backed test result. take it or leave it. I'LL TAKE IT IN MIND, BUT BASE MY CHOICE ON OTHER FACTORS TOO, THAT'S WHAT I BELIEVE HE WOULD DO. suggestions yes, opinions yes, i'll take those in mind, but ultimate choice is mine. a national talk show host says dont believe a ^&%$ i tell you, go research it yourself. then you can agree or not agree with me, and have a more valid arguement for or against by researching yourself.

Monte has not let me down yet, his articles are great guidelines for me. hurry up and get testing Monte-- so i can narrow my wish list down some.

 

[CaballoDeOro]

I am not a "better man" but try to be a "helpful man" and that includes being open enough to state what I think, offer my opinions, and perhaps, just perhaps, anyone in a position to actually think things over at Tesoro might get a wake-up from my comments and others who share similar thoughts, and it's all for the better. We want Tesoro to hang in their, keep making good detectors that work well for a variety of detecting applications, and try to catch up with all the others who ARE advancing their product lines through the years.

I respect this more than I can express, Monte. I am all in favor of supporting your preferred brand of detector, but sometimes the views expressed here are way too biased towards Tesoro. Both current detectorists and newcomers need objective viewpoints, not cheerleaders. Tesoro does not benefit from endless expressions of blind admiration either. They will only improve their products and move in the right direction when people tell them what is wrong with their product lineup as well as what is right.

 

[plidn1]

Every Detector, regardless of Manufacture, has it's good features and bad. Some fit into certain nitches better then others.
But for some people to ignore technical advancement and to condemn it because it doesn't fit their personalities or perceptions, or because they are incapable of learning new technics in hunting style, is fool hardy.
There are a lot of tremendous detectors on the market today. They do things that our best detectors in the 1980's couldn't begin to match. If these manufactures were not competitive, we would still be swinging unstable, machines with little or no depth, that constantly need tuning, to find a few coins.
Because these detectors have gotten so expensive, as well as elaborate, these forums are truly a gold mine for information to determine which is best for you and your budget.
But the information must be unbiased without personal ego feeding the conversation. Opinions are great for conversation, but when you are spending an once or two of gold to buy a detector, you want hard facts about what it can and can't do in competent hands.
Surprisingly, these same people that say simplicity is better, are the first in line for the newest smart phone.

Thank you Monte for sharing your wealth of information to us.

 

[litrfree]

Hi,
it is for Monte, who is a famous man. I am foreigner, and, simple, I can still juicy from my no TID machines more than from TID machines of my friends are able, with success, of course. I did written and erased and back wrote, a definitely erase this brands names. This is Tesoro forum and I am not sure what is ethic for sponsor. If you are not sure, do not do it....
Back close to speaking about TID and non TID MD

 

[Les in the UK]

Like always a great post mate, i look forward to reading your comparisons on the Outlaw and the Bandido II uMax, your issue with the 5.3/4 intrigue me (but we better save that for another time) as i want to keep a low profile at the moment.
I hope that you have a good trip and that you make some great finds, you take care and keep safe bud. You never know you might have an Outlaw waiting for you when you get home, you could even get one of the extra hot Ones ( that was a joke guys. in the UK if we say that it's hot, it means that it has been stolen)
Les in the UK

 

[oldcoon]

A good broad dealer base is needed to help keep a company in this industry afloat, and when dealers sell fewer products you make or simply abandoned you, desperation can set in for "cash flow." I have seen it happen with many detector companies in the past who didn't keep current and competitive in the broad market, and then made some wrong- move marketing decisions. I hope things change in Tesoro's favor, but it will take both engineering and substantially new product innovations AND a change back to how they market their products. Sadly, I don't see that happening.

 

[Furious T]

Monte,
I liked your post and, as is usual in your posts, the interesting and thoughtful points you made. I hope that you enjoy the Outlaw...I've had a few enjoyable and interesting outings with it here (in Australia), and have decided to get one of my own (the one I have is on loan from our distributor, Paul Knee). I haven't used the 5.75 concentric coil on it yet, but I feel I know the coil and its possibilites pretty well from using it on my other Tesoros. My feelings are that the versatility of the Outlaw would be improved it Tesoro made a small DD coil for it (either a 5.75" or a 7" x4"). I think that such a coil would make the Outlaw even better in those "tight 'n' trashy" places. I'll be looking forward to seeing your views. HH Pete

 

[tvr]

Monte,
Good to see you back posting in the Tesoro forum. Looking forward to seeing your thoughts on the Outlaw.

I had not caught the closed thread before so had to go find it and read it ... and well, yes, I also thought Elton was a little quick on the trigger on a couple of occasions ... and yet, he has accepted a responsibility to moderate; not a position I think I'd volunteer for. I've had a couple of differences with moderation choices, but am glad that he is here helping to keep things at a generally reasonable level of civility. I am also glad that he has eased a little on letting references to, and some feature comparisons with, other brand detectors that we use enter the discussions. Sometimes the comparison helps to indicate what we like about a particular Tesoro model and why we keep it, as well as what we may want to see changed ... oh ... I mean improved ... in a new product ... or maybe I mean modified ... ah well, you get the gist.
Cheers,
tvr


PS Notice you have the V3i in your signature block. I remember your initial thoughts on the V. A friend got an original V and never had the first release version headset volume / linearity issues taken care of. He recently had a different issue crop up; sent it in and now has his V turned into a V3i and couldn't be happier with it. I may need to go read some of that forum. Haven't in a very long time!

 

[Monte]

Monte,
Good to see you back posting in the Tesoro forum. Looking forward to seeing your thoughts on the Outlaw.

On very hot days like today I find it easier to post on all sorts of forums just to find an AC grab-some-grub place.

As for sharing my thoughts on the Tesoro Outlaw, I am looking forward to doing just that. I also hope to have one in my hands, delivered to my mail site, shortly after I get back home so I can get started. Any dealer or distributor or even the factory are welcome to shoot me an e-mail to monte@ahrps.org or to monte@stinkwaterwells and let me know they will provide one for me to use for evaluation.

E-mail a heads-up and let me know I can share who supports me in doing this evaluation, or if they prefer to keep their identity neutral (aka quiet), then ship an Outlaw package to me at 2459 SE Tualatin Valley Hwy. #382 Hillsboro, OR 97123.

I am also glad that he has eased a little on letting references to, and some feature comparisons with, other brand detectors that we use enter the discussions. Sometimes the comparison helps to indicate what we like about a particular Tesoro model and why we keep it, as well as what we may want to see changed ... oh ... I mean improved ... in a new product ... or maybe I mean modified ... ah well, you get the gist.

I don't know why some forums get so bent-out-of-shape when other products are mentioned. If a lot of people find the other products to be of greater interest, then maybe that is a hint for the Tesoro design folks. Most of the time, since there is no such thing a s a 'perfect' detectors, mentioning other brands can also bring out the strengths of your own brand.

Over on the AHRPS forums there is only a deletion if it is spam, or verbally offensive. They are forums, so open discussion and sharing opinions is what it is all about.

PS Notice you have the V3i in your signature block. I remember your initial thoughts on the V. A friend got an original V and never had the first release version headset volume / linearity issues taken care of. He recently had a different issue crop up; sent it in and now has his V turned into a V3i and couldn't be happier with it. I may need to go read some of that forum. Haven't in a very long time!

Yes, and before I got onto the forums this afternoon I changed up my signature a little. I haven't been using the V3i much, preferring the MXT Pro from that maker, and even the VX3 more as a 'cruising unit' to take the place of the XLT for working wide-open sports fields and large park lawns.

Monte

 

[BarnacleBill]

"I hope things change in Tesoro's favor, but it will take both engineering and substantially new product innovations AND a change back to how they market their products. Sadly, I don't see that happening."

I agree Monte as Tesoro has been a Mainstay on the detecting scene providing detectors to the beep/dig style of users. But the size of the U.S. beep/dig market is limited and likely shrinking. When the Tejon was released Tesoro likely had good cash flow for a couple of years providing an opportunity to invest in a new TDI/VDI detector based on the Tejon circuitry. But time marched on and BH/Fisher/Tek filled in that market segment of the high gain (Tejon with a meter) detector with a smorgasbord of products. Even if they were to produce one today they are boxed in, yes Tesoro loyalists would buy some, but even then the Tesoro beep/diggers wouldn't, and then they would need to go out and capture market they could have already owned from non-Tesoro users. What about a takeover/buyout? Not likely as they don't really hold any IP that other major detector companies are interested in. The scary thought is that a Chinese Metal Detector Manufacturer would buy them for the Brand Name recognition and then take all of the production to Mainland China. And that is a nightmare scenario that is possible, as it has been done many times in the electronics industry! Does the name Zenith ring a bell? First they moved production to Mexico and then, well Korean LG came in and picked over the bones.

HH
BB

 

[NoShow]

Good one NoShow,the others that come over here talking smack about tesoro,just want tesoro to be like the rest,were we will have to go out and buy scratch remover to get all the scratches out of the display screen,i use my tesoro detector around dirt,not in the house,the last thing i want is my favorite metal detector looking like my cell phone.I am glade tesoro is different than the rest.Maybe they want a tesoro like the new ctx 3030,that runs on huge drill motor batteries, this would be fun to swing for hours.

Thanks for the kind words.

Well my very first post was deleted.

Apparently the truth or opinions can't be stated on these forums unless it supports their largest supporters!

Anyways, the street price for one of their new technology "Water Resistant" coils is 50.00 cheaper than buying a new Silver uMax. So who is out of touch with people in this economy? Wow, you might actually get an inch more for twice the price. Plus you will get a limited warranty for twice the price.

I actually own one of the 'other' detectors along with my new Outlaw so I know the prices first hand.

Anyways, hope you get to read this before it is also deleted.

HH

 

[tabman]

Good one NoShow,the others that come over here talking smack about tesoro,just want tesoro to be like the rest,were we will have to go out and buy scratch remover to get all the scratches out of the display screen,i use my tesoro detector around dirt,not in the house,the last thing i want is my favorite metal detector looking like my cell phone.I am glade tesoro is different than the rest.Maybe they want a tesoro like the new ctx 3030,that runs on huge drill motor batteries, this would be fun to swing for hours.

Thanks for the kind words.

Well my very first post was deleted.

Apparently the truth or opinions can't be stated on these forums unless it supports their largest supporters!

Anyways, the street price for one of their new technology "Water Resistant" coils is 50.00 cheaper than buying a new Silver uMax. So who is out of touch with people in this economy? Wow, you might actually get an inch more for twice the price. Plus you will get a limited warranty for twice the price.

I actually own one of the 'other' detectors along with my new Outlaw so I know the prices first hand.

Anyways, hope you get to read this before it is also deleted.

HH

It was a very good first post.

 

[NoShow]

Good one NoShow,the others that come over here talking smack about tesoro,just want tesoro to be like the rest,were we will have to go out and buy scratch remover to get all the scratches out of the display screen,i use my tesoro detector around dirt,not in the house,the last thing i want is my favorite metal detector looking like my cell phone.I am glade tesoro is different than the rest.Maybe they want a tesoro like the new ctx 3030,that runs on huge drill motor batteries, this would be fun to swing for hours.

Thanks for the kind words.

Well my very first post was deleted.

Apparently the truth or opinions can't be stated on these forums unless it supports their largest supporters!

Anyways, the street price for one of their new technology "Water Resistant" coils is 50.00 cheaper than buying a new Silver uMax. So who is out of touch with people in this economy? Wow, you might actually get an inch more for twice the price. Plus you will get a limited warranty for twice the price.

I actually own one of the 'other' detectors along with my new Outlaw so I know the prices first hand.

Anyways, hope you get to read this before it is also deleted.

HH

It was a very good first post.

Thanks Tabman!

I liken it to the car market. There are cars produced for all types of people, all types of budgets and what we see is a market for ALL of them.

By saying that Honda Civic does not offer a rearview camera for backing up that they will go out of business is ludicrous! By saying that the civic can't parallel park itself and will be less desirable is also ridiculous. They each have their niche and market place.

Should they change their marketing and technologies forcing people to buy options that they don't want and need? I think not.

We have seen expensive cars not fair as well in this economy as smaller compact better gas mileage cars. Yet when times were good they would fly out the door. We have also seen warranties increase to more mileage and years... because WARRANTIES are IMPORTANT to people. It tells them that the company is confident of their products and that no more out of pocket cost will come their way for at least a set amount of time. In Tesoros case a LIFETIME warranty.

Some cars are bigger, more expensive, eat more gas but have features like steering wheel radio controls, V8's, parallel parking, rearview mirrors, outside air temperature, GPS built in, air conditioning, electric windows, electric seats. These cars eat up more gas and are heavier. They might get you there in style and will most likely be more comfortable.

Cars like Honda Civics offer stick shift, 4 cylinder, good gas mileage.

Strangely enough, they will both get you from point A to point B.

Marketing is making you think you need something. It makes you want to buy the latest and greatest product, even if it is no better than the previous version. A product you CAN'T live without, a must have at any price.

All detectors use the "Best Guess" for telling the operator what they found. Not one metal detector company can tell you for CERTAIN what you have found. That is exactly why some people believe in digging every signal.

Some people rely on what the VDI tells them and they might dig less trash and might also miss a good target. Those without VDI may dig more garbage but may also pick up a target that those relying on a VDI has passed because they were told it was 'junk'.

So if someone can convince me that I NEED all the bells and whistles and should pay 2 to 3 times more for it, then at that time I will consider it.

HH everyone!

 

[NoShow]

NoShow,which one can get a inch on the Vaquero,or Tejon?.Those two run the show here in Georgia.We put them head to head all the time.

Exactly!

Even if they can squeek out an extra inch or two, how many targets are that low and if they are is it worth paying 2 to 3 times as much? Some would say yes it is and some would say no. That is precisely why we have different companies offering different products at different price ranges.

HH NoShow

 

[mike5853]

Good one NoShow,the others that come over here talking smack about tesoro,just want tesoro to be like the rest,were we will have to go out and buy scratch remover to get all the scratches out of the display screen,i use my tesoro detector around dirt,not in the house,the last thing i want is my favorite metal detector looking like my cell phone.I am glade tesoro is different than the rest.Maybe they want a tesoro like the new ctx 3030,that runs on huge drill motor batteries, this would be fun to swing for hours.

Thanks for the kind words.

Well my very first post was deleted.

Apparently the truth or opinions can't be stated on these forums unless it supports their largest supporters!

Anyways, the street price for one of their new technology "Water Resistant" coils is 50.00 cheaper than buying a new Silver uMax. So who is out of touch with people in this economy? Wow, you might actually get an inch more for twice the price. Plus you will get a limited warranty for twice the price.

I actually own one of the 'other' detectors along with my new Outlaw so I know the prices first hand.

Anyways, hope you get to read this before it is also deleted.

HH

It was a very good first post.

Thanks Tabman!

I liken it to the car market. There are cars produced for all types of people, all types of budgets and what we see is a market for ALL of them.

By saying that Honda Civic does not offer a rearview camera for backing up that they will go out of business is ludicrous! By saying that the civic can't parallel park itself and will be less desirable is also ridiculous. They each have their niche and market place.

Should they change their marketing and technologies forcing people to buy options that they don't want and need? I think not.

We have seen expensive cars not fair as well in this economy as smaller compact better gas mileage cars. Yet when times were good they would fly out the door. We have also seen warranties increase to more mileage and years... because WARRANTIES are IMPORTANT to people. It tells them that the company is confident of their products and that no more out of pocket cost will come their way for at least a set amount of time. In Tesoros case a LIFETIME warranty.

Some cars are bigger, more expensive, eat more gas but have features like steering wheel radio controls, V8's, parallel parking, rearview mirrors, outside air temperature, GPS built in, air conditioning, electric windows, electric seats. These cars eat up more gas and are heavier. They might get you there in style and will most likely be more comfortable.

Cars like Honda Civics offer stick shift, 4 cylinder, good gas mileage.

Strangely enough, they will both get you from point A to point B.

Marketing is making you think you need something. It makes you want to buy the latest and greatest product, even if it is no better than the previous version. A product you CAN'T live without, a must have at any price.

All detectors use the "Best Guess" for telling the operator what they found. Not one metal detector company can tell you for CERTAIN what you have found. That is exactly why some people believe in digging every signal.

Some people rely on what the VDI tells them and they might dig less trash and might also miss a good target. Those without VDI may dig more garbage but may also pick up a target that those relying on a VDI has passed because they were told it was 'junk'.

So if someone can convince me that I NEED all the bells and whistles and should pay 2 to 3 times more for it, then at that time I will consider it.

HH everyone!

Good analogy, well stated.