Keith Southern
Active member
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKoMyIGR9UM[/video]
Keith
Keith
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Nail board test for Racer and CoRe Video
- Thread starter Keith Southern
- Start date
TabWhisperer
Member
Good job again on the video. That small coil is the way to go in heavy iron.
It looks like you're using a printed out copy of my Nail Board Performance Test and, from experience, I have seen these sometimes get printed out a little too wide, too narrow, and just a bit out-of-scale.
The best way to know your Nail Board is a 'perfect match' so all NBPT comparisons will be consistent, is to have a genuine article. It will also save you the efforts of bending over as much and having to sort through some loose nails, or keep printing out paper copies. I have a few orders for the Nail Board Performance Test 'kits' I have that I need to mail out this week, and if you will e-mail me your address, I want to send one to you. That way it will be easy to carry afield and use.
I sent one off to the Nokta/Makro folks last week so they will know what I have been using for almost 21 years now, and many detectors can't pass the test. By 'pass' I consider at least 6 digable hits out of 8 possible to be considered a model I want in my relic hunting and old site arsenal. For most readers, I'll point out that the main use of the NBPT is to adjust the detector's Discrimination to just barely reject the four iron nails. Then, place an Indian Head or Zinc Cent in the #1 position and sweep the four marked routes, left-to-right and right-to-left and see how many good hits you can get with the iron nails audibly rejected.
Even some of my favorite Coin Hunting models, like the Teknetics Omega with the 5" DD or any other coil doesn't handle the NBPT well. Even models that I still like, but have been 'dethroned' as my #1 and #2 use detectors [size=small](White's MXT Pro and MX5 or M6)[/size], can do reasonably well with a 5" DD and 6½" Concentric IF the nails are just barely rejected, but DO NOT handle the NBPT if you use a higher Discrimination level such as rejecting all common iron.
Keith demonstrated what I found from the start with the FORS CoRe, and duplicated with the Racer, just how well they can handle this test with a larger 'standard' coil of about 7X11 DD. If I am in a seriously trashy location I will have the smallest coil on either of these models, but ... I put them both to an even tougher test.
Test #1 I did was to just barely reject the four nails w/o a coin, and that called for a Discrimination [size=small](ID Masking or ID Filter)[/size] setting of about '20' to '22.'
Test #2 I used the 2-Tone audio mode with the Discrimination at a setting of '10' to allow me to hear all the iron, but listen for the tell-tale response from the coin. That's the hunting method I use most often, like many avid Relic and Coin Hunters might. However, many people like to use more Discrimination such as in Test #1.
Test #3 is even tougher for all detectors, and that is to reject ALL common iron targets, and that means use a Discriminate setting of '40.' Match the Iron Rejection level of '40' on Nokta or Makro models using any competitive make or model detector and try the NBPT. Almost always a total failure.
With the FORS and Racer? Well, you can see the surprise for yourself. For example, I can use the Racer or FORS in their factory default settings and leave the 2-Tone mode Disc. at '10'. Then, increase the 3-Tone mode Discrimination to '20' or '22', if necessary, to just barely reject the four nails. And, leave the COG/Beach mode as-is with a Discriminate setting of '40' that should reject almost all iron.
Using these settings, I take on the Nail Board first in the 2-Tone mode and see I can get 8-out-of-8 hits with the smaller coil, and just advance to the 3-Tone mode with about Nail rejection, and still get 8-out-of-8 hits. Then, use full iron Reject by next selecting the COG/Beach mode with a '40' Disc. level and, still, these detectors perform quite well.
Anyway, Keith, as I appreciate all your videos, as other do, I want to send you a NBPT 'kit' and you only have to e-mail me your address.
Thanks,
Monte
Now, it's very windy at about 10 mph and gusting to 22, but it is mostly sunny, 59+°, and I finished lunch so I am headed back out detecting. I hope everyone else is doing the same and will get to these posts when they come home to clean their finds.
The best way to know your Nail Board is a 'perfect match' so all NBPT comparisons will be consistent, is to have a genuine article. It will also save you the efforts of bending over as much and having to sort through some loose nails, or keep printing out paper copies. I have a few orders for the Nail Board Performance Test 'kits' I have that I need to mail out this week, and if you will e-mail me your address, I want to send one to you. That way it will be easy to carry afield and use.
I sent one off to the Nokta/Makro folks last week so they will know what I have been using for almost 21 years now, and many detectors can't pass the test. By 'pass' I consider at least 6 digable hits out of 8 possible to be considered a model I want in my relic hunting and old site arsenal. For most readers, I'll point out that the main use of the NBPT is to adjust the detector's Discrimination to just barely reject the four iron nails. Then, place an Indian Head or Zinc Cent in the #1 position and sweep the four marked routes, left-to-right and right-to-left and see how many good hits you can get with the iron nails audibly rejected.
Even some of my favorite Coin Hunting models, like the Teknetics Omega with the 5" DD or any other coil doesn't handle the NBPT well. Even models that I still like, but have been 'dethroned' as my #1 and #2 use detectors [size=small](White's MXT Pro and MX5 or M6)[/size], can do reasonably well with a 5" DD and 6½" Concentric IF the nails are just barely rejected, but DO NOT handle the NBPT if you use a higher Discrimination level such as rejecting all common iron.
Keith demonstrated what I found from the start with the FORS CoRe, and duplicated with the Racer, just how well they can handle this test with a larger 'standard' coil of about 7X11 DD. If I am in a seriously trashy location I will have the smallest coil on either of these models, but ... I put them both to an even tougher test.
Test #1 I did was to just barely reject the four nails w/o a coin, and that called for a Discrimination [size=small](ID Masking or ID Filter)[/size] setting of about '20' to '22.'
Test #2 I used the 2-Tone audio mode with the Discrimination at a setting of '10' to allow me to hear all the iron, but listen for the tell-tale response from the coin. That's the hunting method I use most often, like many avid Relic and Coin Hunters might. However, many people like to use more Discrimination such as in Test #1.
Test #3 is even tougher for all detectors, and that is to reject ALL common iron targets, and that means use a Discriminate setting of '40.' Match the Iron Rejection level of '40' on Nokta or Makro models using any competitive make or model detector and try the NBPT. Almost always a total failure.
With the FORS and Racer? Well, you can see the surprise for yourself. For example, I can use the Racer or FORS in their factory default settings and leave the 2-Tone mode Disc. at '10'. Then, increase the 3-Tone mode Discrimination to '20' or '22', if necessary, to just barely reject the four nails. And, leave the COG/Beach mode as-is with a Discriminate setting of '40' that should reject almost all iron.
Using these settings, I take on the Nail Board first in the 2-Tone mode and see I can get 8-out-of-8 hits with the smaller coil, and just advance to the 3-Tone mode with about Nail rejection, and still get 8-out-of-8 hits. Then, use full iron Reject by next selecting the COG/Beach mode with a '40' Disc. level and, still, these detectors perform quite well.
Anyway, Keith, as I appreciate all your videos, as other do, I want to send you a NBPT 'kit' and you only have to e-mail me your address.
Thanks,
Monte
Now, it's very windy at about 10 mph and gusting to 22, but it is mostly sunny, 59+°, and I finished lunch so I am headed back out detecting. I hope everyone else is doing the same and will get to these posts when they come home to clean their finds.
Monte: Have you by any chance ever tested the F75 w/small coil on your NBPT? If I understood Tom's preliminary CoRe/Racer assessment correctly, I think he's saying that the CoRe/Racer are very similar in performance with the F75. If true, I'd think that the F75 small coil performance on the NBPT would be similar to what you're seeing with the small coil CoRe/Racer performance.
Yes, twice. A detecting acquaintance had the F75 Ltd. a few years ago and we tried it. The main goal was to reject all four nails and check the hits on the coin. I personally had two Teknetics T2's, which I liked more than the F75, except that like the F75 they were just too squirrely with a very jumpy VDI. Then, just this past summer, I got an F75 Ltd. and gave the NBPT a try, again, with a couple of friends as they also wanted to see how it would handle it for them.berryman said:
In every case, they were not pleased, and I wasn't either. I parted with the last F75 package for a new F19, and the F19 handled the NBPT better than the T2's and F-75's, and G2 and GBP's. However, it didn't do as well as the MX5, M6 and MXT All-Pro, or the Tesoro Bandido II µMAX or Classic ID or IDX Pro. I got another F19 and gave it a try as well, but I soon let it go for the same reasons.
I would say some of their adjustment features are more similar to the Teknetics T2, such as the '40' cut-off between ferrous and non-ferrous targets. Also, like the F75 and T2 they are powered by 4-AA batteries.berryman said:
However, using the FORS CoRe and now the Racer, adjustments are fewer and simpler, performance is better, Target ID numeric 'lock-on' in much better, and they can't be matched on the NBPT even with similar-sized search coils and control settings.
Nope, it didn't for me, for my former Fisher F75 user friend, and not for detecting buddies who gave the F75 a try last summer.berryman said:
Okay, heading back out the door to have fun!
Monte
AJ,amberjack said:Monte how many hits did the racer give at disc "40" did it get 8 with stock coil ?
just ordered mine so I guess it dosnt matter but interested to know of cause unless you can send me a NBPT board to Australia
cheers
AJ
I got back after dark, my blood sugars are a bit low, so I am just making a short reply for now. I was going to go out and do a quick test, but figured I would wait until tomorrow for daylight, and to get away from whatever is causing the EMI issues I have had at home for a couple of days. Might be the power substation just a half-block away.
Looking at my notes for the FORS, the stock coil produced 6-out-of-8 hits with a '40' Discriminate setting, compared with 7 or 8-out-of-8 with a Disc. setting of '20' to '22' to just barely reject iron nails.
I don't recall the Sensitivity/Gain settings I was using, either, and if too high you can have problems in any densely littered location. Usually I will reduce my gain when I am close to metal structures or in dense trash. Matter of fact, at a couple of very trashy places I hunted around an old barn/homestead site, I wanted to check performance with a very reduced setting, so I dropped the FORS Sensitivity to '25' and did the same with the Racer's Gain setting.
There was a little loss of depth, but not all that bad and the lower-half of the response field was much more modulated. I still hit on coin sized targets, buttons and a couple of bullets at the 3½" to 4" depth easily. Tomorrow I will mount up the 7X11 on the Racer, as well as the 5½X10, and compare them and the standard coil on the FORS CoRe with Discrimination set at '40.'
I really don't like to use that much rejection, and most of the time I set it no higher than just barely enough to discriminate nails, and no higher. With these models I prefer the setting of '10' so that I hear the iron, but the lower discriminate setting makes it easier for them to process the ferrous/non-ferrous targets and pass along functional audio responses.
By tomorrow evening I'll post the answer for you.
Monte
TabWhisperer
Member
Monte, could we get your recommended print sizing for the test? I still have a PDF from a few years ago but I don't see where the print size is mentioned. Thanks!
Hi Monte
could you just give the measurements of each side of the real life board you know 10" x 9" what ever the size is ? and maybe the length of the nails and I recon from the instructions and picture I have I can make one up that is like 99% the same as the one you are using
thanks hey!!
AJ
could you just give the measurements of each side of the real life board you know 10" x 9" what ever the size is ? and maybe the length of the nails and I recon from the instructions and picture I have I can make one up that is like 99% the same as the one you are using
thanks hey!!
AJ
The actual Nail Board was made when I placed a sheet of notebook paper on top of the nails and Indian Head cent to get their impressions. I then picked up the targets and used the back cardboard piece of the notebook to lay them out in their exact position/orientation and fastened them to the cardboard. I then made some exact-measurement copies.
When I had the sign maker produce these finished Nail Boards, we made sure that everything was exact to my current NBPT, and they were made on a finished sign board that measures 8½"X11", but you can't just go by that. The nail spacing has to be exact, and even the size of the nails. I have seen people do it and use thin brads such as to hold wood paneling up, and those are way too small.
• So, the finished NBPT is on an 8½" X11" corrugated plastic sign board w/vinyl cover. No water damage to cardboard or paper.
If you orient the four nails as if looking at the NBPT so the '1' sweep route runs left-and-right, the nails and positions are as follows [size=small](using my wooden ruler)[/size]:
The largest Nail is on the right and measures about 4" long and is the thickest.
The 2nd largest Nail is on the left and measures about 3¾" long.
The next-to-smallest Nail is at the top and is about 2½" long.
The shortest Nail is at the bottom and measures 2" long.
Along the #1 sweep direction from one Larger Nail to the other Larger Nail, it is 7" center-of-Nail to center-of-Nail.
It is about 2[size=small]13/16[/size]" from the center of the Left Nail to the center of the #1 circle to position the coin, and about 4[size=small]3/16[/size]" from the center of the #1 circle to the center of the Larger Right-side Nail.
It's about 1¾" from the center of the #1 circle to the center of the Nail at the bottom.
The head of the Nail at the top is about 1[size=small]3/8[/size]" up, and ½" to the right of the center of the #1 coin position.
If you look at the photo of the NBPT and start at the top center of the head of the Nail on the left, and measure clockwise around the Nail Board, it is about 5[size=small]7/8[/size]" to the point of the top Nail. About 3[size=small]3/8[/size]" from the pint of the Top Nail to the center of the Head of the Right-side Nail. About 3" from the point of the Right-side Nail to the point of the Bottom Nail. And about 1¾" from the center Head of the Bottom Nail to the Point of the Left-side Nail.
Confused? Sorry. The best way to not have to do all the measuring and fitting to try and get it right would be to make it to our Detector Owner Rendezvous club meeting in Portland, Oregon this Saturday and buy a Nail Board Performance Test 'kit' from me. Or, you can e-mail me and order one, but I only accept US Postal Money Orders.
Okay, it's nice weather and I'm out-the-door to the Post Office to send a kit to Keith, then go detecting.
Monte
When I had the sign maker produce these finished Nail Boards, we made sure that everything was exact to my current NBPT, and they were made on a finished sign board that measures 8½"X11", but you can't just go by that. The nail spacing has to be exact, and even the size of the nails. I have seen people do it and use thin brads such as to hold wood paneling up, and those are way too small.
• So, the finished NBPT is on an 8½" X11" corrugated plastic sign board w/vinyl cover. No water damage to cardboard or paper.
If you orient the four nails as if looking at the NBPT so the '1' sweep route runs left-and-right, the nails and positions are as follows [size=small](using my wooden ruler)[/size]:
The largest Nail is on the right and measures about 4" long and is the thickest.
The 2nd largest Nail is on the left and measures about 3¾" long.
The next-to-smallest Nail is at the top and is about 2½" long.
The shortest Nail is at the bottom and measures 2" long.
Along the #1 sweep direction from one Larger Nail to the other Larger Nail, it is 7" center-of-Nail to center-of-Nail.
It is about 2[size=small]13/16[/size]" from the center of the Left Nail to the center of the #1 circle to position the coin, and about 4[size=small]3/16[/size]" from the center of the #1 circle to the center of the Larger Right-side Nail.
It's about 1¾" from the center of the #1 circle to the center of the Nail at the bottom.
The head of the Nail at the top is about 1[size=small]3/8[/size]" up, and ½" to the right of the center of the #1 coin position.
If you look at the photo of the NBPT and start at the top center of the head of the Nail on the left, and measure clockwise around the Nail Board, it is about 5[size=small]7/8[/size]" to the point of the top Nail. About 3[size=small]3/8[/size]" from the pint of the Top Nail to the center of the Head of the Right-side Nail. About 3" from the point of the Right-side Nail to the point of the Bottom Nail. And about 1¾" from the center Head of the Bottom Nail to the Point of the Left-side Nail.
Confused? Sorry. The best way to not have to do all the measuring and fitting to try and get it right would be to make it to our Detector Owner Rendezvous club meeting in Portland, Oregon this Saturday and buy a Nail Board Performance Test 'kit' from me. Or, you can e-mail me and order one, but I only accept US Postal Money Orders.
Okay, it's nice weather and I'm out-the-door to the Post Office to send a kit to Keith, then go detecting.
Monte
long way for me to go to pick one up 
so very well done it may not be perfect the one I make but will be close enough and before I even start now I know the sizes that's one mean test !!
thank you very much for taking the time to do that for us !!
hope you found some goodies !!
AJ
so very well done it may not be perfect the one I make but will be close enough and before I even start now I know the sizes that's one mean test !!thank you very much for taking the time to do that for us !!
hope you found some goodies !!
AJ
thanks Monte 
knocked up an Aussie one
don't have an indian head , so using a sixpence 925 silver. real close to the same size as the indian head.
what ya recon? no testing today got heaps of other jobs I need to do, will cover it in clear tape and will be outside proof enough 
AJ
PS that's a tough test without even using it I can sure see that !!
http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb431/AMBERJACK-DP/P2120005.jpg
knocked up an Aussie one
don't have an indian head , so using a sixpence 925 silver. real close to the same size as the indian head.what ya recon?
no testing today got heaps of other jobs I need to do, will cover it in clear tape and will be outside proof enough AJ
PS that's a tough test without even using it I can sure see that !!
http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb431/AMBERJACK-DP/P2120005.jpg