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Nukbers Sum

cachenut

New member
Well I skipped some good coins yesterday.

I set the gain up to 8 and the sensitivity on 22 manual and passed over several 8 29s cause in the past they were junk. After hunting 3 hours I decided to dig one and it was a dime at 3 inches. ARG! I went right over many good finds. I also skipped about 20 @ 6 27 cause in the past they were zinc pop caps. I expect some of those were pennies.

Is it true that as you turn the detector up the nukbers tend to go up too so a 29 might become a 30 or a 8 29 may be a dime. I also skipped one 8 30, I hate to think what that might have been.

Maybe when you turn the detector up high you need to dig all high tones?

Joe.
 
Hey Joe,

Deeper coins will not ID accurately, especially if they are around trash. I would get away from digital mode and look at the target screen. Dig anything that hits in the upper third of the screen that is not completely to the left.

Once again, using tight discrimination or only digging certain numbers might work ok for digging shallow clad coins. For deeper stuff you need to dig anything that hits in a general area.

Chris
 
Sounds like good advice.

I am using tight descrimination where I am now because it is so trashy. 3 or 4 targets per swing. I also am using gain of 8 w manual sensitivity of 18. I found a penny 1977 at 3 inches and it id at 4 30 consistently. I am thinking of changing to gain 7 and sensitivity 20 instead. This is within feet of where I found my 1964 quarter the other day. I am having a lot of trouble pinpointing.

It does appear that increasing gain runs the id numbers up too????
 
Joe,

All gain does is make things lounder. It goes not affect the target ID. If you turn up the gain to 10 it becomes hard to tell deep targets from shallow by sound. Most of us try ignore shallow clad signals. If you turn down the gain too far it might make signals too faint to hear; depends on your hearing and headphones and amount of noise around you.

Don't worry about gain, set it at 6-8 and leave it for now. Sensitivity is much more important. Bump it up until in gets unstable and then bump it back down a couple of notches.

I'm a firm believer in the less discrimination is better school of thought. I would just run the coins pattern or IM-10 or so if all the signals are overwhelming and as you gain more experience try backing it down. What has been advised by many is run the coins program and then switch to IM-16 to check out any signals you get. You will be amazed by how much better many of them will sound when no discrimination is present.

Chris
 
Learn what the tones are telling you. Go around the target from different angles.

Generally, when in digital, low ferrous and high conductive = DIG. I would have dug all of the examples you mentioned. So you dig a few bottlecaps. In time, you will learn how to skip bottle caps based on a combination of audio and display.
 
That is what I thought I understood about gain.. increases the deeper sounds proportionally to the increase in gain... so.. of
course I've got to wonder and ask.. what is the relationship to an
increase in gain and turning deep on?! Sorry.. that has been bugging
me for a while now.. and this seemed like a good time to ask someone
that could probably tell me..

Also, what about the statement about the difficulty in pinpointing..
I seem to have no problem now.. as long as I keep the sensitivity
to around 20-21 (manual)... I have to slow things down the more I increase sensitivity.. and when I try to go above 20-21 sensitivity...
I seem to have virtually no luck pinpointing.. I definitely want to
learn to find the deeper targets.. but when I try increasing sensitivity... I have to slow sweeps down to a crawl.. and no matter how careful I try to be pinpointing.. I seem to dig empty holes..

Is there something I'm missing in pinpointing when I increase sensitivity?! It gets very frustrating..

BTW... I'm currently using the 8" coil.. if that makes a difference.

Thanks for any suggestions that anyone may have...
 
Deep amplifies the fainter signals more than the mid range ones, while gain works across the entire range.

Not sure I have an answer about pinpointing at higher sensitivities. If you are in pinpoint mode sensitivity has no effect. The explorer detunes automatically to try give you the smallest pinpoint possible. Are you using pinpoint mode or regular mode?

Another thing about sensitivity.... There are many places that you cannot turn the sensitivity up very high because of electrical noise from powerlines and other sources. If you do you will get lots of falsing. The area that I detected the most this summer was typical, I could only run at 18-20 before the machine would go nuts.

Chris
 
I have used digital in conjunction with the sounds.If I see 29 on the screen it's usually a dime or quarter.Went by sounds alone the other day,it was almost dark,kept digging dimes,dimes, dimes.Yea it's clad,but I look at clad as practice for pinpointing and just all around experience under my belt with the EX-II.I am getting some mercs and indians.Things will come with time.Really considering a small coil now,but not sure which way to go.Christmas ya know,the snow will be flying soon,got to get more of this detector fever out before it gets too deep.scott.
 
Oh.. I see.. I think.. gain is just a little more volume?!
?! But then... I believe I have read that if you increase
gain too much... you would have a harder time differentiating
between shallower and deeper targets?! Of course, I could very
well be wrong.. again (as usual).

I am using the pinpoint mode once I hear/see a target I want to
examine further.. I seem to have the impression that targets being
read on the outer edges of the coil can sound like good targets..
whereas once you have it under the center bar.. it will sound/read
more to its true nature (iron specifically..) therefore I use
the pinpoint mode in attempts to make sure I am reading under the bar rather than on the outer edges... and may then switch back to detect to see what I hear/see.. and then back to pinpoint before digging.. which... apparently (obviously) ain't workin' for me when I try to
crank the sensitivity?! Heck... you know I just GOT to crank it to the max once in a while.. just to see what happens..

Yes... that is basically where I am.. I have to decrease sensitivity
to 20-21 manual.. but.. I am trying the increase in sensitivity to
get those deeper signals.. and I very well could be falsing.. but
I'm not experienced enough now to know the difference... it sounds like it is falsing..maybe?! WAY too many targets it sounds like.. but if I slow WAY down.. I will start hearing the threshold in between targets (maybe?!).. but.. would it be falsing in the pinpoint mode?!

I do not believe there are any powerlines close enough to cause
problems..

You can just ignore my ramblings.. I'm just thinking out loud.. but.. possibly someone else may have gone this same phase as I am... and some probably went on without going through the same phase?!
I'm sure I just need to back off on the sensitivity and be done with it.. I'm just kinda hardheaded... so will probably keep butting my head into the wall until I knock myself out.. and then decide.. well.. I ain't gonna try that again!!!

Of course, If there are any more hardheaded "nuts" out there that are or have gone through this type experience I would love to hear about it.. and... especially anyone that has had the same type experience.. and how they eventually dealt with it... maybe (I doubt it).. they could prevent me from "knocking myself out on that wall"..

I do appreciate your response and information.. and will take it to heart (eventually?!)... I just sometimes start laughing at myself..
but.. that doesn't stop me..

Thanks again,
Dan
 
Sounds good.. and like fun.. can you tell us more about the settings you are using?
I'm here in Northern Florida.. can probably detect most of the year.. when I get time..
How come I've got the feeling that the "fever" will get worse when it gets too deep?! :crazy:
 
Hey Dan, what type of ground are you detecting in? On pinpointing, Andy's book on the Explorer has the methods of pinpointing explained. If you don't have the book just email me and I'll try to help out with some of your questions. HH
stevedp@bellsouth.net
 
Steve,
Yes, I have Andy's book.. ordered it as soon as I
had the Explorer on the way.. and had read it before
receiving the Explorer.. I've tried all of the pinpointing
methods.. I was using the waggle in detect mode while drawing
the coil towards you method.. but.. started having problems
and realized that some targets are detected well beyond the
outer edges of the coil (especially iron).. so.. I was missing
a lot of targets.. I'm now using the detect then pinpoint in
the pinpoint mode by Xing the target..

A lot of where I am detecting is covered in many, many iron
targets, etc.. such as old roofing nails, etc.. and I've noticed
that these iron targets are detected well beyond the outer
edges of the detector (ground testing on old nail).. As long as I keep the sensitivity down to 20-21 manual.. I can get nearly 100% finds on targets..

I believe my pinpointing problems are due to the increased sensitivity.. and.. somehow related to iron targets being
detected on the outer edges of the coil.. and with increased
sensitiviy... there is not only an increase in the depth of the
detection pattern... but also an increase in the width of the
pattern... I believe that has something to do with it.. but..
of course I'm not sure.. and at this point.. if that is even the
case.. I'm not sure why that is/would be causing me to be off
in pinpointing so frequently..

I go into pinpoint once I find a target to dig.. and try to be
very careful to pinpoint accurately.. and... to make sure that
I've got the coil over the central, bar area of the coil..
Like I said.. I can get nearly 100% finds while at 21-22 sensitivity
(or lower).. it is just something I am missing with increased sensitivity... and.. as Chris said.. it could be that my increased
sensitivity is actually giving me false signals.. I just don't know
how to prove that.. ?! and.. probably should just stick to manual 21-22 sens.. but.. like I said.. I'm kind of hardheaded.. it will have to smack me in the face before I give up...

Thanks for the offer.. don't be surprised if you hear from me one day.. after I pound my head against this wall for a while longer..

Dan
 
I had the ex11 for around 3years and still learning one thing go slow for the deep ones or u will pass them right up sen. I have found mercy dimes 10'' with it at 16 on sen.pinpointing that takes a min. It took me a good year but know I don't even use pinpoint it takes time u can see my finds for this year at treasure net forums my cous took the pic and posted it for me P S don't give up that is a bad @~~ detector It will amaz. u :minelab:kick @**
 
Davedigs, you got it right slow , very slow check out ever sound and dig the repeatables = good deep coins will come and lots of them. Harry:cheers:
 
<I> How come I've got the feeling that the "fever" will get worse when it gets too deep?! </i>

LOL! it does get worse... just ask my wife :lol:

BTW, your iron targets will give you false signals. If you seem to get a good signal but it moves in pinpoint, it's most likely iron. Also, check the profile or how large the target is. If you're looking for something small and the target is really large in pinpoint it's probably junk.

Re: sensitivity... if there's a lot of iron around, try backing off of the sensitivity. You get a lot more depth that you think even at 16. To prove it to yourself, before you dig the next "deep" target you get (at the higher sensitivity), lower the sens until you don't hear the target anymore.

Do you hunt the beaches at all? It's a real good place to practice. The wet packed sand has less trash (in my area anyway; ocean side) and the digging is easy with a good scoop. I've dug targets at the beach at some insane depths.
 
I do a couple things when I have trouble pinpointing. I raise the coil several inches off the ground in an attempt to find the strongest target there. If I can find it I likely will dig it out in an attempt to find the coin I think is there. Sometimes it is the coin and sometimes the location of the coin becomes clear after the big target is gone. About half the time the coin signal disappears entirely. I found a 1902 half doing this and a 1964 quarter lately. Others had skipped them cause they were next to junk and hard to discriminate and pinpoint.

I also turn on pinpoint mode several inches off the ground and above the target. I turn it on right above the target and just at the edge of where the target appears in the headphones. This usually works and if it does not I try a closer distance. Because I sweep over the target several times I know about where the target is and thats where I start. If the two disagree I check it more carefully by moving at it from a different direction. I usually can get it to go to the exact spot and pinpoint correctly. If not I dig something out.
 
Dan

Your understanding is not quite right on gain. Yes it raises the volume but keep in mind because the volume can only go so high the shallow targets volume maxs out while at the same time the deep targets continue to get louder. Finally whenthe gain is set to 10 all targets sound the same therefore you can no longer tell the difference in depth by the loudness. I think I said this right. If I did not I'm sure someone will straighten me out.

AK in KY
 
You've been given some good advice and I'm pretty sure it won't be long before you get the hang of pinpointing your targets with success.
The biggest plus I see going your way is that you are hard headed enough (like myself:) ) to not give up on learning what the detector is trying to tell you.
The Explorers language is tough to understand for a lot folks starting out but once it clicks, it clicks!
I'm going to hit on some things that were posted for you.
Like Joe said, if the target tends to move on you it's probably iron or junk.
Don't worry about running the sens so high in fear of depth loss because the Explorer will go deeeep even in the low teen scale.
Using that pinpoint button is a good thing sometimes but you will be much better off if you learn how to do the wiggle directly over the target and narrow it down with the tones. You already know how to hit it at different angles and wait on the threshold to come back.
Remember, pinpoint is going to grab ahold of the first target it see's where as the less discrimination you use (like a wide open screen) the Explorer has less work to do and actually responds even quicker to close targets. Yes, you will hear everything, but that's my point.
Never count on a good target reading as "text book" on the meter, whether you are using digital or open screen.
One HUGE advantage is that you are using a 8" coil, it has the abilty to make nice thin slices of "information" in target concentrated areas much better than a 10" coil.
The 10" coil is great, but anytime you are hunting a site that has iron and targets everywhere ... smaller is BETTER. I prefer having as close to the real information the detector is trying to give with a smaller coil than when it has to start averaging the information because there is way to much under the surface of the coil to do otherwise. Make sense ?
I'm NOT saying that the pinpoint button is useless, it just has it's place and time to be used ... period. EXCEPT to maybe size up a target.
Learn to wiggle that sound down to as tight a pattern as you can get with the 8" coil and you won't need that pinpoint button at all. Really creep up on it, slooooow at whatever angle until you hear that target and wiggle it into submission :)
Oh Yeah, about gain, set it at like 6-8 and leave it there.
The Fast or Deep has there place too, they are simply filters that can be selected for "different" types of sites. Hey, you don't even HAVE TO use them at all.
Just make sure you hit the noise cancel button before you start hunting "unless you are hitting the same site over and over again" and keep that sens turned down to reasonable number for peace of mind that the detector isn't falsing all the time.
like Joe said, crank it up and then bring the sens down until it's stable. Then when you find a target of interest, start turning the sens down until you no longer hear it and YOU WILL BE SURPRISED at how powerful the Explorer really is.
Good Luck & Good hunting
Mike
 
Dan,

My understanding of what the SENSITIVITY setting does:

The signal strength of the target runs all the way from extremely weak to very strong. The SENSITIVITY setting is a way of telling the detector "Do not bother to tell me about a signal strength less than some value". For this case increasing the GAIN or any other adjustments will not effect what the detector tells you because there is no response given to signals received that are less than some threshold.

Increasing the SENSITIVITY setting will allow you to get a response to more of the weaker signals. This naturally means that you will get more target responses. If you set the SENSITIVITY to the extreme, then almost any electrical disturbance or variations in the ground mineralization will produce unwanted target responses. But, you will be able to get a response to more actual targets. The question is can you tolerate all the undesirable responses?

As Chris stated, the DEEP control just amplifies the weaker signals more than the stronger signals. This is a powerful tool if you are concentrating on deeper targets. Also keep in mind that the audio response is limited to a certain level to protect your ears. Therefore at maximum GAIN, then all shallower targets will sound off with the same audio level.

HH,
Glenn
 
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