REVIER
Well-known member
A long one, but when I write the words just come out till they stop....
Been out 2 times in the last week on a couple of days when it got above freezing.
Still have limited places to hunt, most open areas are still frozen over down several inches so I hit the more protected woods sites.
The 11"Dd coil is still mounted on the end of my F70.
On my last 2 hunts I was in the woods at 2 different sites but both had some different EMI problems to contend with.
One is up a small mountain and there are not many obstructions to most tower signals from all over the area, pretty much here I am in direct line of site of all of them, the second is right in the middle of a neighborhood with wifi and power lines in close proximity.
I do realize I don't need to max out the sense or the thresh for great depth but I am still setting these pretty high and even maxing them out when I can.
One day I will settle down and figure out what is the deepest and maybe even quieter settings and have confidence in those settings, but right now I prefer doing it this way and even though I do get some pretty good noise sometimes it doesn't bother me and I am still able to ignore the false signals and still pick out the good targets to dig and avoid a lot of trash.
I am still checking many trash signal targets and digging them to be sure and my confidence is growing in my ability to do this as it seems so much irregular shaped on other types of trash might actually sound solid but a lot of them really jumps on the screen no matter what I do moving the coil or hitting these from different directions as it did using my F2.
I could very well be passing over some pretty jumpy but still good targets and never dug them, but in my head I don't think so and I am fine with that and no "what ifs" are bothering me about these undug signals so far.
When I hunt for clad and jewelry, or when I am able to do that again at my more normal park sites, I am still leaning towards using those 3, 3h, 4 or 4H tones because I can hunt quickly and efficiently and not look at the screen till I hear a good, solid signal.
In these woods, however, I have been using a few other tone settings and I am starting to get used to them and enjoy them.
I learned that Rocketman Tom wrote that he thinks mono tone will give the best audio response for deep targets especially around a lot of iron, no matter what the screen says by the way, but I find that it is mentally fatiguing for me to hunt this way for a long time for some reason.
Almost like I get bored and I believe I might miss something if I am not paying extremely close attention to both the audio and the screen.
I like 1F better because the modulation seems to be less tiring to listen to for me.
In areas with lots of iron I also like Treasurebone's idea of using 2F and I have been using that the most so far.
He says there is less EMI chatter on this setting, this may or may not be true because I have so much of it at some sites, but I do think he may be correct and the combination of the modulated audio AND the low iron signal is something I have used so much I am starting to get used to it and like it a bunch.
Some iron targets could be good targets to dig so I like to hear the tone and look at the numbers.
Odd ones that are not usual wire or nails I dig just to satisfy my curiosity, and at sites when relic hunting you want to be alerted to all these iron signals, of course.
I have found a few tiny good targets and even 2 very small and thin silver and gold chains at iron in in the past and I would rather dig trash than take a chance than miss any I might roll over in the future.
I still keep one eye on the screen when using these lower tone settings and not 3, 3H, 4 or 4H, something that I have to practice because I never did this using the F2, but the combination of the audio tones and what I see or don't see on the screen with these other settings is something I am getting more comfortable with on every hunt.
I always listen for any and all solid, repeating tones but I also watch the screen because it seems that the F70, and its cousins the T2 and the F75 I have read, on some very deep targets you might get a tone but absolutely no information will show up on the screen if the target is at or near the limit of detection.
I experienced this on a 10" deep pull tab using the standard 10" elliptical coil once, using some lower settings on the sense and thresh and in 4H tones.
It also repeated but only from one way, still, something in that tone sounded good and I dug it an was pleasantly surprised that there actually was a target that deep.
Not the greatest ID or 100% of the best information on that one, but the F70 knew something was down there and tried to tell me the best way it knew how if only with a one way but still solid repeating tone.
Using the pinpoint the F70 did accurately show a target at 10" before I dug it and that clinched my decision to dig this one.
I learned on that one that some decent, repeating audio cues even without any information on the screen can still tell you something.
I have set up program 2 as my tester, Autotune, sense at 90 or above, thresh as high as I can go without getting a wall of noise which actually can be all the way up to 9 sometimes, and usually DE speed but surprisingly I can switch to SL and not get much more noise than DE most of the time.
At both of these hunts I did start experimenting using this setting as a hunt setting, not just as a check system, and even though it was pretty noisy and a little more noisy than using disc with a few more ghosts, I was pleasantly surprised that I could deal with this set up pretty well.
As I walked and swung I got many signals more signals, of course, some ghosts and chatter, but I swung over many of the more solid ones looking for repeating tones and any information I could see on the screen.
When I couldn't get a repeating tone I moved on, and on all of these I never saw too much on the screen at all pop up, hardly any at all as a matter of fact, so I knew these were false signals and I could avoid them.
On each and every signal that was a real target, good or trash areas in the VDI, the tone was solid, repeated and just like using the other tone settings some information and VDI numbers popped up on the screen every time.
Using this method of hunting in this noisy EMI and iron filled environment I managed to pick out a couple of good targets that repeated, did not jump much at all on the VDI numbers, sounded good and dug them.
Here are those targets in this thread.
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?91,2014685
The Hubley gun was cool, the most complete cap gun I have ever found, the plastic bulb and holder off an older battery powered lantern was an odd find, the junk jewelry came in as a 27-28 just like a ton of old foil that is all over the place at this site but was a non jumpy signal like that foil, and all of these and the rest were solid, good tone, repeatable and pretty stable not so jumpy in the VDI numbers.
There were many very jumpy targets that I did not dig this day.
I was never the kind of guy that hunted using the threshold and in all metal much, even looking for deep targets using my Vaquero, but this surprised me.
The fact that I could deal with all the noise, get a ton of foil and iron hits and still dig some better and good targets was pretty cool, and something I need to try more in the future.
I wasn't mentally fatigued in any way, even listening to a lot of tones and watching the screen at the same time.
Now I am not saying everyone can or should do it this way and put up with the amount of noise I know I can handle.
I had intense early training with a bad detector that falsed constantly on almost every swing and about 1000 hours hunting with the F2 on max settings in some very noisy EMI filled environments and hunt in ways that most will never be comfortable doing or will ever have to deal with or should, but I also dug enough good and trash targets in my time to know in my heart of hearts that I do have some good abilities to pick out good sounding and wanted targets even when listening through a lot of noise.
This is my hunting style and I have become very comfortable doing it this way...it has become very normal for me.
I might have well missed some good targets along the way, if I never dug them I could not possibly know 100%, but in my mind the percentages are in my favor and I have dug enough great targets to have confidence in my abilities and the what ifs rarely bother me much any more if I don't dig absolutely every signal on every hunt.
Yesterday I went to the second site and this on has much history going back to the 1820's.
Way too much of this site was actually frozen over, there is not a large area of woods here anymore and it is not as protected as that first site an the leaves are not as deep protecting the surface from freezing.
I started out the same way as before, 2F tones, tried different frequencies to look for the quietest one but all were similar and still noisy, disc like at 4, DE speed, thresh at 0 and the sense about 90 and I could deal with these even with still some decent amount of noise.
Eventually I switched over to similar settings as my last hunt way up there on program 2 using autotune and even SL and again I was surprised I could deal with these settings as noisy as they were.
I got more signals than using disc on program 1, more false signals too, but again all good targets were solid, repeating, information showed up on the screen and trashy ones jumped pretty good and better ones did not jump so much.
Not many signals dug here due to ground conditions but I did manage to find a few things easily hunting this way including some headstamps that date to between 1920 and the 50's, a few modern coins, a small animal collar with a bell and a tag, a very long rusted chain that for all I know dates back to the civil war because I found a huge draft horse horseshoe in the same area on a previous hunt, and my prize for this day was again another toy cap gun...but in nowhere near the shape as the other one I found.
Pic below...
I believe I might have destroyed it digging it out of frozen ground, but at least I got all the parts which is way more than I usually find when I come across these old toy guns.
A shame too, this was a Mattel Fanner 50 model, very popular from 1958 to 1965 and styles changed as the years went on.
I believe mine was one of the first models and produced in or around 1958.
Still waiting on spring, warmer weather and much better digging conditions, but I think I will still continue to mess around hunting in autotune more in the future and not just in tot lots like I have in the past.
I know I can still get crazy deep in disc with the right settings, but this autotune stuff intrigues me and I wonder if there will be a difference in accurate IDs at major depth
If I am aiming to hit up till now some amazing and unknown depths that I have not visited before this is something else I need to experiment with...when it finally warms up.
More to come...
Been out 2 times in the last week on a couple of days when it got above freezing.
Still have limited places to hunt, most open areas are still frozen over down several inches so I hit the more protected woods sites.
The 11"Dd coil is still mounted on the end of my F70.
On my last 2 hunts I was in the woods at 2 different sites but both had some different EMI problems to contend with.
One is up a small mountain and there are not many obstructions to most tower signals from all over the area, pretty much here I am in direct line of site of all of them, the second is right in the middle of a neighborhood with wifi and power lines in close proximity.
I do realize I don't need to max out the sense or the thresh for great depth but I am still setting these pretty high and even maxing them out when I can.
One day I will settle down and figure out what is the deepest and maybe even quieter settings and have confidence in those settings, but right now I prefer doing it this way and even though I do get some pretty good noise sometimes it doesn't bother me and I am still able to ignore the false signals and still pick out the good targets to dig and avoid a lot of trash.
I am still checking many trash signal targets and digging them to be sure and my confidence is growing in my ability to do this as it seems so much irregular shaped on other types of trash might actually sound solid but a lot of them really jumps on the screen no matter what I do moving the coil or hitting these from different directions as it did using my F2.
I could very well be passing over some pretty jumpy but still good targets and never dug them, but in my head I don't think so and I am fine with that and no "what ifs" are bothering me about these undug signals so far.
When I hunt for clad and jewelry, or when I am able to do that again at my more normal park sites, I am still leaning towards using those 3, 3h, 4 or 4H tones because I can hunt quickly and efficiently and not look at the screen till I hear a good, solid signal.
In these woods, however, I have been using a few other tone settings and I am starting to get used to them and enjoy them.
I learned that Rocketman Tom wrote that he thinks mono tone will give the best audio response for deep targets especially around a lot of iron, no matter what the screen says by the way, but I find that it is mentally fatiguing for me to hunt this way for a long time for some reason.
Almost like I get bored and I believe I might miss something if I am not paying extremely close attention to both the audio and the screen.
I like 1F better because the modulation seems to be less tiring to listen to for me.
In areas with lots of iron I also like Treasurebone's idea of using 2F and I have been using that the most so far.
He says there is less EMI chatter on this setting, this may or may not be true because I have so much of it at some sites, but I do think he may be correct and the combination of the modulated audio AND the low iron signal is something I have used so much I am starting to get used to it and like it a bunch.
Some iron targets could be good targets to dig so I like to hear the tone and look at the numbers.
Odd ones that are not usual wire or nails I dig just to satisfy my curiosity, and at sites when relic hunting you want to be alerted to all these iron signals, of course.
I have found a few tiny good targets and even 2 very small and thin silver and gold chains at iron in in the past and I would rather dig trash than take a chance than miss any I might roll over in the future.
I still keep one eye on the screen when using these lower tone settings and not 3, 3H, 4 or 4H, something that I have to practice because I never did this using the F2, but the combination of the audio tones and what I see or don't see on the screen with these other settings is something I am getting more comfortable with on every hunt.
I always listen for any and all solid, repeating tones but I also watch the screen because it seems that the F70, and its cousins the T2 and the F75 I have read, on some very deep targets you might get a tone but absolutely no information will show up on the screen if the target is at or near the limit of detection.
I experienced this on a 10" deep pull tab using the standard 10" elliptical coil once, using some lower settings on the sense and thresh and in 4H tones.
It also repeated but only from one way, still, something in that tone sounded good and I dug it an was pleasantly surprised that there actually was a target that deep.
Not the greatest ID or 100% of the best information on that one, but the F70 knew something was down there and tried to tell me the best way it knew how if only with a one way but still solid repeating tone.
Using the pinpoint the F70 did accurately show a target at 10" before I dug it and that clinched my decision to dig this one.
I learned on that one that some decent, repeating audio cues even without any information on the screen can still tell you something.
I have set up program 2 as my tester, Autotune, sense at 90 or above, thresh as high as I can go without getting a wall of noise which actually can be all the way up to 9 sometimes, and usually DE speed but surprisingly I can switch to SL and not get much more noise than DE most of the time.
At both of these hunts I did start experimenting using this setting as a hunt setting, not just as a check system, and even though it was pretty noisy and a little more noisy than using disc with a few more ghosts, I was pleasantly surprised that I could deal with this set up pretty well.
As I walked and swung I got many signals more signals, of course, some ghosts and chatter, but I swung over many of the more solid ones looking for repeating tones and any information I could see on the screen.
When I couldn't get a repeating tone I moved on, and on all of these I never saw too much on the screen at all pop up, hardly any at all as a matter of fact, so I knew these were false signals and I could avoid them.
On each and every signal that was a real target, good or trash areas in the VDI, the tone was solid, repeated and just like using the other tone settings some information and VDI numbers popped up on the screen every time.
Using this method of hunting in this noisy EMI and iron filled environment I managed to pick out a couple of good targets that repeated, did not jump much at all on the VDI numbers, sounded good and dug them.
Here are those targets in this thread.
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?91,2014685
The Hubley gun was cool, the most complete cap gun I have ever found, the plastic bulb and holder off an older battery powered lantern was an odd find, the junk jewelry came in as a 27-28 just like a ton of old foil that is all over the place at this site but was a non jumpy signal like that foil, and all of these and the rest were solid, good tone, repeatable and pretty stable not so jumpy in the VDI numbers.
There were many very jumpy targets that I did not dig this day.
I was never the kind of guy that hunted using the threshold and in all metal much, even looking for deep targets using my Vaquero, but this surprised me.
The fact that I could deal with all the noise, get a ton of foil and iron hits and still dig some better and good targets was pretty cool, and something I need to try more in the future.
I wasn't mentally fatigued in any way, even listening to a lot of tones and watching the screen at the same time.
Now I am not saying everyone can or should do it this way and put up with the amount of noise I know I can handle.
I had intense early training with a bad detector that falsed constantly on almost every swing and about 1000 hours hunting with the F2 on max settings in some very noisy EMI filled environments and hunt in ways that most will never be comfortable doing or will ever have to deal with or should, but I also dug enough good and trash targets in my time to know in my heart of hearts that I do have some good abilities to pick out good sounding and wanted targets even when listening through a lot of noise.
This is my hunting style and I have become very comfortable doing it this way...it has become very normal for me.
I might have well missed some good targets along the way, if I never dug them I could not possibly know 100%, but in my mind the percentages are in my favor and I have dug enough great targets to have confidence in my abilities and the what ifs rarely bother me much any more if I don't dig absolutely every signal on every hunt.
Yesterday I went to the second site and this on has much history going back to the 1820's.
Way too much of this site was actually frozen over, there is not a large area of woods here anymore and it is not as protected as that first site an the leaves are not as deep protecting the surface from freezing.
I started out the same way as before, 2F tones, tried different frequencies to look for the quietest one but all were similar and still noisy, disc like at 4, DE speed, thresh at 0 and the sense about 90 and I could deal with these even with still some decent amount of noise.
Eventually I switched over to similar settings as my last hunt way up there on program 2 using autotune and even SL and again I was surprised I could deal with these settings as noisy as they were.
I got more signals than using disc on program 1, more false signals too, but again all good targets were solid, repeating, information showed up on the screen and trashy ones jumped pretty good and better ones did not jump so much.
Not many signals dug here due to ground conditions but I did manage to find a few things easily hunting this way including some headstamps that date to between 1920 and the 50's, a few modern coins, a small animal collar with a bell and a tag, a very long rusted chain that for all I know dates back to the civil war because I found a huge draft horse horseshoe in the same area on a previous hunt, and my prize for this day was again another toy cap gun...but in nowhere near the shape as the other one I found.
Pic below...
I believe I might have destroyed it digging it out of frozen ground, but at least I got all the parts which is way more than I usually find when I come across these old toy guns.
A shame too, this was a Mattel Fanner 50 model, very popular from 1958 to 1965 and styles changed as the years went on.
I believe mine was one of the first models and produced in or around 1958.
Still waiting on spring, warmer weather and much better digging conditions, but I think I will still continue to mess around hunting in autotune more in the future and not just in tot lots like I have in the past.
I know I can still get crazy deep in disc with the right settings, but this autotune stuff intrigues me and I wonder if there will be a difference in accurate IDs at major depth
If I am aiming to hit up till now some amazing and unknown depths that I have not visited before this is something else I need to experiment with...when it finally warms up.
More to come...
What a dope! I found that one nice gold chain in At too, and my first class ring, silver merc, I was digging everything of course...Then I found this Forum and got straightened out...I seldom use AT anymore, but I can appreciate what its there for.
Good work REVIER!
keep writing and hunting!