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One for Nim...

A

Anonymous

Guest
You're on the ball tonight, bud. Here's one. When you find out WHAT it is, then tell me WHY it was found in Canada. <img src="/metal/html/smile.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":)">
It's about 2" long...
 
Hmmm ... off the top of my head I'd say that it was a military knapsack hook. Examples of civil war era hooks are highly prized by civil war relic hunters and command very high prices when they are sold. That is unless it is a more modern WWI era Canadian knapsack hook like the one have in your post. These could be had very cheaply at various military surplus stores for many years. Unfortunately they are very difficult to distinguish from the much more expensive civil war variety. As can be expected many were bought cheaply in Canada and sold for princely sums to uneducated civil war collectors back in the US. Luckily you didn't get swindled, but you have dug a beautiful piece of 20th century Canadian military history. Good job Bud. So when do we get to the difficult whatzits? <img src="/metal/html/biggrin.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":D">
 
Try a search for "snake buckle"
WWI Canadian issue, also used by the Canadian Mounted Police, etc... Same supplied by British to Confederate forces during civil war.
Ha! So you were awake (sort of) when I showed ya my junk. I thought maybe you were just being polite before you cleaned the silver out of my parks. <img src="/metal/html/lol.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":lol">
<img src="http://www.rootsweb.com/~canmil/images/sold6.gif">
 
Conferderate snake buckles at the link below.
Hokey smokes, I think I've dug some Confederate brass frame buckles as well <img src="/metal/html/shocked.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":shock"> <img src="/metal/html/wink.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=";)">
 
... or else it was some kind of a test to see if I was paying attention to your stories. In either case I felt compelled to prove that even when I am face down on the bar sleeping I am still hanging on every word you and Cierlast utter. <img src="/metal/html/wink.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=";)">
 
This s the center protian of the 3 piece Snake buckle. These have been used by the British/Canadians from the 1700s until today. Most common just prior to WW1, I think the last pattern of common issue these were used was the 1902 pattern. Some Rifle Regts still use these on Dress Uniforms, however they tend to be in White metal.
I feel this on IS from the 1902 pattern leather belt. I have seen many of this pattern sold as 'Civil War" for far more than they are worth. There are many differant variations of this "snake" with more than one style being on issue at the same time. If you collect Civil War, WATCH OUT!! 90% of the ones sold are 1902 pattern Canadian isseu that are mis-labled.
Dean Owen
Whitby Ontario
 
Well I have owned many 1902 Pattern belts, that how I know that style, I have also come across many pre 1902 British issue buckles over the years and have that knowledge, I also have a few good books by well know Civil War relic Hunters that show Camp and Battlefield recovered Snake Buckles. Unfortunatly I do not have a digi camera nor a scanner so I cannot post photos. Also a few Federal Regts were equiped with the English Snake belt and Enfield cartridge box. I remember seeing photos of a Mass Regt that had been equipt with English items taken from a captured Blockade Runner, I am sure the belts would have been replaced as soon as possible, however the Enfield Cartridge boxs may have been used by these Federal Regts for some time. As a rule Federal Regts that used Enfield Rifles used the standard US issue Cartridge boxes, ( and man there were a bunch of differant issues, I have a very good referance book on these) Confederates probably used the Enfield boxes more commonly, however due to the balkeyness of the box, I feel they would have replaced them from Battlefield pick ups ( from the standard US issue)
Dean Owen
Whitby Ontario
 
Here are two examples that are presently being sold as confederate on a website, one from ebay labeled as "confederate type" and the one I dug. Do these help show what we should looking for to tell the difference?
<img src="http://www.civilwaroutpost.com/bsnakemurf.jpg">
<img src="http://www.civilwaroutpost.com/wirelpsnake.jpg">
<img src="http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/imageserver.x/00000000/samc/a36.jpg">
 
First I hate anything electronic, the computer and I don't see eye to eye so for now anything else that goes with it is out of the picture.
This is how I see the buckles, there are many factors that I am using, more than I care to type.
Top WW1 period buckle with mismatched left loop, the loop on the right is used to sie the belt.
Next I have seen this type but I can't remember where. What size are the loops and are they made of iron? I believe this was used for a cloth stable belt ( dress belt) as you can see it won't carry much weight, the loops are not soldiered closed and the iron is thin, likely around 1900 or a little later.
Next This is a British/Canadian Riflemans buckle ( white metal) They are hard to date due to the many differant types that were used, However I would say thisa is 1880s to Present use. Nickle over iron is more modern than the older ones that were nickle over brass. I do know that most that are used today on Regt. Unforms are chrome plated and have a "sunburst" in the middle of the Snake, but not all
Last, This again looks like 1900 to 1914 perhaps a bit older ( Boar War) One of the problems with this type is the fact that when Canada declared War in 1914 there was a rush to equipe the 1000s of Volnt. that joined up. The result was that the boots fell apart, the uniforms were shoddy and rushed production allowed items not up to pre-war standard to be used. This "snake" looks older than WW1 however it does not look like a great quality casting, so this gives it an older appearance. It also may have been cast in an earlier type mold due to the efforts to make enough equipment to fill the needs.
As soon as our Troops arrived in England they were re-equiped with 1908 Pattern Webbing (cloth)and Better quality British Unforms and Boots. CEF Battns raised from late 1915 or early 1916 were issued the 1908 Cloth webbing in Canada, again some of this 1902 Pattern stuff was still in used with Militia units for years. I remember seeing these belts by the hundereds in Surplus stores in Toronto for $5-$6 each in the mid 1980s
With the dug snake buckles you really got to know where it was found, and I don't trust a lot of people that sell on ebay.
I hope this helps
Dean Owen
Whitby Ontario
 
...at the link below, he talks about the later "squashed guppie" snake buckles.
Thanks again.
 
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