Patriot, deeper in disc or notch?

[JJames1610]

I have one on the way and since they are about the same as an f70. Can someone tell me which is deeper? Very low disc and very low notch if you can just notch out say 1 or 2. But not using both together. Would be in sl mode, thanks

 

[REVIER]

Honestly from what I can see neither notching or disc cuts out much depth at all...if any.
Even a combination of both.
This is also a bit different than what you probably know compared to other brands but I have seen many things in the field using about 2457 of the million possible setting combinations I have tried out there.

Supposedly all metal is still the deepest but I don't know...the deepest target I ever hit was at 15" loud and clear with the gain and thresh maxed and in DE but disc was probably my usual low setting at 4 or less.

I have hit deeper targets with the disc up to the low 20's too, I rarely turn it up higher than 22 or 23 because I am a gold hunter and I have found a few at 24.

I believe I remember once I did turn it up to 65 on the way back to the car just to cherry pick a couple more and I got down to at least 6" on a couple of coins but I probably could have gone way deeper, that was just where they happened to be hanging out.

This one I remember for sure.
In my difficult mineralized soil using some new settings I was trying out I hit an 1800's V nickel that was worn thin as a dime with my 5" sniper coil at about 8"...pretty much as deep as I have ever gotten on a good target that wasn't big iron around here.
Loud and clear, repeated from many directions...a for sure dig me target.
Sense about 80-85, thresh was negative at -1 or -2, I don't remember if I was using SL or not, that area is sometimes pretty noisy but maybe.
This area has WiFi from two differ buildings close by and is in the middle of a triangle of power lines running around the perimeter...the eye of the storm.
Disc was maxed all the way up to 65 but I notched in foil and nickels in case there was some gold hanging around.

Like I have said in the past there are a few things that are different about this one that are a bit hard to wrap your head around until you experience them.
One is that you need high gain to get deep, you really don't.
Two is that discrimination of any kind kills depth, I really don't believe it does in the slightest.

You will see.

 

[JJames1610]

Thanks Revier, one more thing. It says that it will save all of your settings when turned off. Does that incude the ground balance?

 

[still looking 52]

Air testing would let you know for sure but I would agree with Revier that most likely there wouldn't be any difference in depth between the two settings. On my F5 there is a relationship between gain and threshold for maximum depth, that was found by my brother WV62 by air testing the machine.

 

[REVIER]

No, the GB setting is the only one that it won't save but unless you hunt the same site all the time it would be useless.
Even in some of my sites the ground can change every 10 feet sometimes.

One cool thing is it will save all your settings even after you change the batteries...like it's magic or something.

It is fast and easy to set this thing up on both programs, #1 and #2, anyway.
Like seconds.
I always use disc on program 1 and all metal on program 2, hunt on one and use the other as a check system.

If you ever do a factory reset you will lose all your settings and have to start over but if it ever starts to act wonky, like in very high EMI saturated sites, do a reset and that calms it down sometimes.
More importantly if you ever do set any notches always...and I mean always do a reset after you are done with them.
There is a glitch in the programming in both the F70 and F75 where setting a notch is easy and reversing out of the notch is also but even though the machine tells you the notch is gone, all the slashes up on top will revert to normal, don't ever believe it because more often then not the notch will still be in effect.
I believe many a Fisher machine was sold at rock bottom prices because owners set notches and reversed out of them but the machine never worked right after so they dumped them.
Some never did the reset and as I said even changing batteries won't fix it because it saves settings.
We Fisher guys buy them cheap and the first thing we do on a used machine is do a factory reset then merrily continue on our way finding great treasure with a now perfectly sane good working machine, Tra La.

A factory reset is your friend so don't be afraid to use it.

 

[Elton]

Is the Patriot a version of the Fisher F-70. Knowing your history with the F70, your understanding of that machine..What is your take on the Patriot ??.

 

[REVIER]

Is the Patriot a version of the Fisher F-70. Knowing your history with the F70, your understanding of that machine..What is your take on the Patriot ??.

It has got to be just as great...if not better because it might be a bit quieter.
Some "secret sauce" as Dave J. likes to say just might have been put into this one compared to the F70.
Can't say for sure, nobody has mentioned this at FTP and only my opinion but reading some posts from some new users they seem to mention how quiet it seems to be on some decently high settings.
Need to hear from way more owners but FTP does this stuff, tweaks things behind the scenes and doesn't tell anybody or has in the past.

This big coil on an F70 was MAP priced at close to $700 and it was placed one notch down from the Flagship model.
Now the same thing is being sold for $400 which is pretty much bottom of the midrange price point.
This is startling to me, especially since I have seen what it can do in just about every situation you can imagine except salt water beaches.
One day I will take mine on vacation and see what I can do with it in that environment too.

I am impressed FTP did this but why...I am sure there is a reason it is just that we don't know about it yet

 

[JJames1610]

My Patriot is definitely not quite at higher settings. I haven't had it but a day, but just testing it right now. Now DE seems to be a lot more better than SL. Rain here has only let me practice about one hour. I am trying it in SL and moving sens and thres to try and get it under control. When i do get it kinda quite the sens is so low it cant hit the deep targets. I may have found a solution though. I moved tones to 2f and it seemed to help a lot. Didn't have time to really test that because the rain was starting and had to run to the house. Every one that uses probably already knows that but i didn't.
Does the low tones like 1 and 2f help on the chattering when in SL and trying to get deep? I only had like 1 minute to test it before the rain hit.

Oh my disc was at 1, 0 is a little chatty.

 

[REVIER]

My Patriot is definitely not quite at higher settings. I haven't had it but a day, but just testing it right now. Now DE seems to be a lot more better than SL. Rain here has only let me practice about one hour. I am trying it in SL and moving sens and thres to try and get it under control. When i do get it kinda quite the sens is so low it cant hit the deep targets. I may have found a solution though. I moved tones to 2f and it seemed to help a lot. Didn't have time to really test that because the rain was starting and had to run to the house. Every one that uses probably already knows that but i didn't.
Does the low tones like 1 and 2f help on the chattering when in SL and trying to get deep? I only had like 1 minute to test it before the rain hit.

Oh my disc was at 1, 0 is a little chatty.

I have posted a ton about all this stuff, tried it all, found great things all along the way.
First, you don't need SL to go deep in my opinion.
It can possibly get deeper in certain situations or firm up some deeper signals, it is great for hovering over things which it was designed for, many use it all the time, some never use it, I switch it on and off in disc depending on how much noise I get at some sites and how much i want t deal with.
As I mentioned the deepest target I ever dug, 15", was in disc and DE and it was pretty quiet...and I had the gain and thresh maxed.
I always use SL in all metal with everything else maxed out and hunt that way all the time because i just got used to doing it that way.
Surprisingly stable, don't know why but it usually is.
On any pumped up noisy settings in disc or AM if you can learn to live with it these things will still stop any crazy behavior and tell you it is swinging over something good...but if quiet is what you prefer you can do that too.

The bottom 3 tone settings are usually going to be the quietest, 1, 1F and 2F....they just are.
More often than not I am in monotone, 1, when in disc for many reasons and quieter running is one of them.
I also use 1F and 2F but 1 has the best unmasking abilities in iron and all my sites are loaded with that.

1 disc most of the time but I am doing a lot of switching to 0 but it takes time to get used to that.
Again I do it for the unmasking ability. It i have found tons on 1 and even higher.

There are very few combinations I can't use but i have my favorites and every type of combination, definitely the crazier ones, took time to get used to and I won't say master but get good at utilizing them.
I have been swinging this thing for over 3 years now so I have had a lot of practice and fought my way through some of the noisier ones but now I am pretty comfortable using most anything in disc or AM.
I learned all of these ways because I needed to in some of my more difficult and challenging sites.
As much as I loved using my first settings when I got mine, 4H, disc in the low 20's, thresh at -2 or -3 and sense lower in the 70's or up to mid 80's which were usually quiet and great for normal park hunting, when I got into really heavy iron, really crazy trash or extreme EMI filled sites all in good soil and here in the SE. with my mineralized soil on top of these same challenges they just didn't work so well.
I found a ton with my first settings but I found way more when i started changing them and spent time getting good at using them.
There are a million ways to set these things up and I would like to say that a of them would work perfectly and optimum at every different site we visit but I know by experience this just isn't true.
Most settings will find most things at most places but when you need that extra oomph, those better settings to help you unmask better, get deeper, find that next great treasure in the most challenging and difficult situations it is nice to know you have some at hand that you have already practiced and learned to use.
I never stop learning, tweaking and trying new things and I keep finding great treasure.
If one set of settings don't work I try another...luckily I have so many to go to if needed.

 

[Elton]

n/t

 

[REVIER]

Anytime Elton...just one guy's opinion.

By the way JJames...if you go from 1 to 0 on the disc and get just "a little chatty", yours still could be set up to be a bit quieter than mine.
For me that move from 1-0 is a huge difference...huge, mine doesn't just get a little chatty it goes insane at most sites...on my higher settings, anyway.
A lot if that is all the extra targets it picks up at 0, you wouldn't think there would be a big difference in the amount it picks up with that one small move but it does.
Some is the extra EMI effect.
On this one you can control the thresh in disc and that does help mitigate some of that, however.
I have tried hunting with both really high thresh and very low thresh and it all works but i prefer higher because it also seems to have some extra unmasking abilities when I can do it.

From what I have read jim tn using his F75 rarely sets his on any other disc number and he usually uses multi tones too but he finds a ton.

I am wondering what a different coil on a Patriot will do.
I have three Fisher coils and love them, have found a ton with all of them but recently i just started using a Nel Sharpshooter coil too.
In their info they say these coils are extremely well shielded and it appears to be true.
My rig seems to be noticeably quieter with this one mounted at many different settings I have tried plus in some sites where heavy EMI has given me problems in the past.

 

[JJames1610]

Revier i respect what you have to say for sure. I know you know that detector very well. And detecting in general very well. I have read your post from earlier times and they definitely helped me. I am not looking for coins per say, but trying to get to two or three feet deep. I can do it with some settings, but its chatty. You are correct about it letting you know of a shallow target, it will clear up and you know it. But when its really deep it don't act the same way, and just hard to tell the target from chatter. I am still working on it, thanks for all your help. Believe me it does help.

 

[REVIER]

Two to three feet?
Right now I am working hard to get to 9" in the bad stuff around here.
If you can do it let us know.

 

[JJames1610]

Revier i can do 36 inches now. But please understand this is not a coin. Its a 12 × 12 inch target. To get i have to do SL, 0 disc, 85 sens, 2f or lower tones, thres 0 to 9. But at those high settings its unbelievable chatty. To chatty for me. This is mild Oklahoma soil to. I am still working on it, ok. Thanks for the help man.

 

[REVIER]

I use these settings all the time...hunt with them and use them as a check when hunting in disc.
All metal, Sense 99, Thresh +9, SL speed.

By happy accident I found out in extreme and crazy EMI there was chatter and jumping but not as much as you might think and I could easily find targets this way.
I practiced it more and more and now it is my standard setting on program 2.

It gets me about as deep as I have ever seen, or at least I have seen a few depth numbers while pinpointing that were 18" and more...never dug them, though, and I doubt they were the sized targets you are looking for.

 

[doc holiday232]

Revier, I don't own an F70--just the F75,but I truly enjoy your indepth posting on the F70. It helps me in my detecting---continued good luck to you.

 

[TheHunterGT]

I know First Texas products like the back of my hand. Rarely read something I don't already know about them. But Revier (Digger27) posts about the F70 are 2nd to none in my opinion. Dude has given me "aha" moments more than once. Even on my T2...which he does not even own.

 

[REVIER]

I know First Texas products like the back of my hand. Rarely read something I don't already know about them. But Revier (Digger27) posts about the F70 are 2nd to none in my opinion. Dude has given me "aha" moments more than once. Even on my T2...which he does not even own.

Well thanks, but just chalk it up to my inquisitive and anal nature.
The F70/F75/T2 and now the Patiot are all close cousins so so much transfers over between them.
I love this hobby and learning to get better is just about as much fun for me as finding the good stuff.
I figure get better at the former and you will find more of the latter.
I am also a voracious reader and I am always on the lookout for tips and advice from others on these forums, and thanks for all I have learned from you guys, plus anything I can find at the deepest technological levels so thank god for Dankowski and his posts on these things over the years.
Luckily I can understand his stuff and use it or at least try it and I just take it all in and do a bunch of experimenting and tweaking to my liking and then regurgitate what works for me back onto these forums.
I don't think I am really coming up with a whole lot of new ideas here, my strengths are a keen understanding of noticed behavior in the field and the ability to write in a way that most can easily understand when I do have something useful to offer.
Just paying it forward as so many others can and do in this great hobby.

 

[JJames1610]

Amen