Patterns and Effect on Detection Depth

[Andy Sabisch]

I had posted this to response to a question previously but the title of the original post was a bit off the topic so I thought it might spur some conversation as it's own thread . . . .

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A number of people have posted for some time now that using any pattern will adversely effect detection depth of an Explorer. I would be interested in the basis for the belief that using a pattern - any pattern - on the Explorer in any way equates to a loss of detection depth? All a pattern does is tell the detector which coordinate square to accept or reject. If the target is an "iffy" one, then it may fall into the dark or rejected square and hence not be detected. But if for example, you have an all black screen and accept say a dime with a medium cursor, there will be no difference in detection depth on that target in the pattern or if you are running with an all white screen; i.e., iron mask or a clear smartfind screen.

Are patterns the solution to everyone's hunting style? No . . . and I do not think I ever said they were. However, when you have a limited amount of time or are at a site for a one shot opportnity and you want to focus on certain targets (or reject certain targets), I for one (as do many of those that have discussed this with me over the years) opt for a pattern over trying to hunt in all metal and get overloaded with signals from every target I come across . . . .

I have talked with a number of "newbies" that were told by a dealer or someone on a forum that to really learn the Explorer you need to run with nothing blacked out. This is probably the best way to get frustrated and give up on the hobby.

I can not imagine how getting a new detector that operates differently than anything else out there and setting it to beep on anything in the ground and then trying to hunt areas that are littered with targets can possibly produce anything other than frustration.

Are great finds being made by SEASONED hunters running with a low IM screen? Absolutely; however, the key word in that sentence is SEASONED. I'm sure we all have tips and tricks that work very well in the field but dumping them all on a novice and expecting them to get similar results without the requisite foundation is a bit unrealistic no?

Andy Sabisch

 

[Boony]

Hi Andy, I sweep fairly fast (about a 2 second sweep) with my new SE and I found that if I placed a couple of coins on the surface and used the factory preset discrimination screen in a lot of instances the SE would not respond to the coins, however in All Metal mode the SE responded to the coins every time it was swept over them regardless of sweep speed. Having said that I always hunted with the Explorer II with a made up discrimination pattern and I can't remember it ever not responding to a coin under the coil. The SE that I'm talking about is the one that has gone back to Minelab to have the display fixed (see post "Has anyone had this happen to their SE") so maybe there is something totally wrong with this particular SE, I'm hoping that Minelab will check it out thoroughly before they send it back to me.
All the best....Boony

 

[tomtowns]

Thanks Andy...I read your earlier post & re-read it just now...Thank you...I don't have one yet & am still undecided on whether to get the new SE or pick up an EXP ll at a bargain price...but it's posts like this that will spark responses from others & that's exactly what people like myself need in order to get a better picture of the operating characteristics of the explorer series detectors

 

[Steve(MS)]

There seems to be the idea that since your settings don't match mine then you must have yours setup wrong, I don't think this the way to approach the matter and there is like you have so accurately stated that there is a learning curve so don't overload the initial getting used to the Explorer with a fully open screen. I still don't use the fully open screen unless I am in an area with few signals. I personally use conduct sounds so I use a little IM or some program to at least knock out the small iron but I must be in the minority on the forums as most use ferrous sounds so some may think that I am uninformed or totally running my unit with the wrong settings. I have not seen a single test or my own experience to prove that an open screen will get a target that -15 will not get and I have tried many many tests and signals through the years. The way I look at it, even if one uses ferrous sounds he must at least have a slightly higher tone (out of the -16 range) before it is worth investigating. I like conduct sounds because when it breaks out of the -16 area then it is much more noticeable, at least for me than ferrous sounds and guess what, that's the way I like it and it fits the way I detect and my preferences so that is the way it will be no matter what the naysayers think so it is with other settings and running patterns, if it fits the user needs then I say it is right for them. A clear screen in the areas I detect is a constant stream of signals that I can do without whether using conduct or ferrous sounds. The "bridge" I use is to have one screen open at all times, that way I can check the iffy signals, that is those signals that break out of the -16 area. I guess theretically the best way one will run open screen all the time but that is not for me and may not be for others that are limited by time, percentage of good finds verses junk and all the extra sounds to distract me till I get a signal worth investigating, JMO.

 

[Chris(SoCenWI)]

Andy,

I'm one of the people that argues against the use of tight patterns. The argument isn't that it causes the explorer to lose depth per se. In certain situations you could have the whole screen blacked out except for one pixel and still get the hit at the same depth as you would on a open screen.

The problem is that in 99% of real world hunting conditions there will be ground mineralization, trash, and perhaps just depth (as targets get deeper you start to loose the ability to differentiate different targets and all hits sound like iron). Any one or combination of these factors can cause targets to ID differently than the locations where they were taught in. Generally this means that only shallower targets will consistently hit in the undiscriminated areas of the screen, and hence the perception that discrimination kills depth.

The issue isn't really depth, it is the ability to ID accurately. I've found many coins that have hit far from their normal areas; would you still get them running IM-13 to IM-15? pretty sure the answer is yes, running factory coin program; no.

Many of us still choose to run wide open because we have gotten used to listening to all the sounds and find the constant nulling even at minimal levels of discrimination to be more irritating than all the low iron sounds, plus it seems that the explorers recover from a null less quickly than from a change in tone.

Other reason for a more open screen is to be able to listen better if the sensitivity is too high. I have seen newbies running with most of the screen blacked out and getting nothing. Opening up the screen revealed the machine was in pin ball mode- way too high of sensitivity for the conditions.

I think the vast majority of the advice for new users on this forum is to start with the factory presets for the first week/month, then start opening up the screen and learning to adjust the sensitivity in manual as you gain experience. Many of us would also caution against spending alot of time learning in coins and building/editing complex patterns. It's a cool feature but has limited utility if you want to find older coins in heavily hunted or trashy areas; most of the targets that ID "properly" where dug a decade or more ago. The explorer tones combined with the 2 axis display screen can give you lots more information on the iffy signals, using lots of discrimination denies you most of this info.


Chris

 

[Tony N (Michigan)]

I agree with you Andy and have proven it myself in an old coin garden.

But like one of the posters pointed out, I think it was Chris, is that many coins are co-located with trash in a real-world environment. So if one had, say, just the dime accepted on the screen, it might get skewed by the trash and not be seen nor heard.

On really deep coins I have seen what is called a jump. The cursor jumps from approximately where the coin should hit on the screen and then jumps all the way to the upper left of the screen. Had only a small opening been available on the screen, this anomaly, or jump, would not be seen and a coin might be missed.

It was only by getting out with some seasoned Explorer pros like Patrick of Michigan and the guys around the St. Louis area a couple years ago that these tricks were learned. Anyone that was posting on these boards around 1990 to '93'ish will attest that I was one frustrated yet persistent Explorer user.

My advice? Newbies . . . get out with a seasoned Explorer user! Unless of course you are a genius like my hunting partner, Stan, who figured it out in only about a day. Of course he is an exception to the rule. I'm just dumber than all get out! But once I learn I never forget.

And I still hope to learn more tricks!