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PI and Coin Hunting

PennyFinder

New member
Of the newer PI units out with the improvements in discrimination, which detector could you coin hunt with best?
On Youtube there was a chap with a Whites TDI, ground balancing out nails and digging all high conductors. Something I had tried with my Fisher Gold Bug 1 many moons before for beach jewelry hunting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jl_5J3ioBk


PennyFinder
 
Hi Pennyfinder,

I prefer the TDI but I don't use it like how it is used in the video since there is a much smoother way to run it and not have to keep turning knobs that works for me.

Reg
 
Hi Frank,

One should be able to do some basic testing to determine the best settings that will allow the detection of coins and ignore most nails. Unfortunately, there are some flaws in the setup as noted on the video.

If you watch the video I made, you will see it is easy to ignore most nails while detecting coins. Again, the key is in the setup. No, you will not ignore all nails, but you should be able to ignore most.

The video mentioned earlier indicates you should set the delay at a setting of 17 usec or later and turn the ground balance (GB) back to ignore nails. What will be indicated if this is done is the nail rejection isn't as good as it is at a lower delay. At least, on my TDI it isn't.

Now, if you watch this video,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ibDh4k-DuY

you will see a poorly made video because it was a last of the minute idea, no planning, and I didn't have anyone else to help me, all of which would make a big difference. What the video does display is the fact one can ignore nails and other ferrous junk such as bottle caps.

In the video you will see it is possible to ignore nails and still detect copper pennies and silver dimes with decent depth capabilities. The key settings are the delay and the GB setting. The other controls such as the gain or sensitivity, the Frequency are adjusted for maximum depth. You also need to select HI conductor so you can ignore nails as displayed in the video.

In the video, I set the delay at 10, the GB at 5 and at this setting, most nails are ignored but silver and copper coins are detected with a reliable and repeatable response. Reduce the GB to as low as 2 and the rejection of nails is increased but the depth capability is reduced. Also, at the setting of 2, you will probably ignore Indian Head pennies.

On my TDI, if I set the delay at 17 or more and I try to ignore nails I will lose Indian Heads before I lose nails consistently. I don't do that at a delay of 10.

Keep in mind the TDI isn't perfect and you will dig some nails, but that usually happens with any detector. Also, a PI isn't really designed as a discriminator. It just turns out that when selected to the single tone mode with the right settings, most junk can be ignored and still detect the deeper stuff.

Next it becomes important to listen to the signals themselves. Deeper coins will be a nice smooth signal that normally repeats from all directions. This could be influenced if a large piece of trash is nearby, much like what happens with a VLF coin machine.

In my video, you will note, I sweep much slower than what is done in the other video. Why? Well, a PI requires a lot of filtering to try to reduce the excessive noise that is so common on a PI. The filtering is designed such to try to reduce the noise while not affecting the main signal that much. In doing so, the filtering sets the ideal sweep speed. Sweep too slow and depth is lost. Fortunately, most people do not do that, but if one tries hard enough it can happen. Normally, this sweep speed would be called a granny gear because it would be very slow.

Also, there is an upper limit on sweep speed where depth is lost. This may not be as noticeable when working with hunting coins, but it is there. Bury a coin at about maximum depth of detection and try different speed and this becomes more important. This upper limit becomes even more important when nugget hunting.

Ok, the final thing to remember is use the single tone mode when trying to ignore nails. This technique works best for hunting silver and copper coins and makes ignoring bottle caps, pull tabs, most nails and tin foil quite easy to do. In the case of silver and copper coin hunting, use the high conductor mode.

Keep a couple things in mind. First, use a nice smooth sweep keeping the coil level above the ground. The reason for this is because the GB will be off a little so by keeping the coil level, there will be little interference from any ground signal. Next, remember that in most cases a buried coin will give a nice clear smooth repeatable signal from all directions. If it occurs from only one direction, then move around 90 degrees and try again.

If the signal stutters, double blips, has a sharp edge to the signal or is not repeatable, it is most likely ferrous trash of some type. With practice, you will ultimately know what I mean.

Finally, if you are too close to a nail, you will get a signal regardless. This holds true for other large ferrous junk. If you suspect this is the case, simply raise the coil and test the target again. A coin will have signal that fades smoothly, while trash can fade or better stated, disappear abruptly.

So, there are a lot of little things to learn to get the best out of the TDI. Sweep speed is one, GB settings how they are affected by the delay is another, coil height above a target and how the target signal can alter things if too loud, requiring the coil be raised, and finally, to use the single tone mode for the best results.

One last bit of wisdom and that is, too much of a reduction in the GB can result in ignoring Indian Head pennies also. So, it does take practice to find the best combination for the location.

Reg
 
Nice bit of info Reg!! I'm interested to know what sort of depth are you getting with the TDI set up to reject ferrous objects?
 
Hi Mesha,

I use the smaller DF coil so my depth is not as good as it could be, but I still find I am digging the deeper coins at somewhere between 7" and 8" in depth while at iron reject. That may not sound like much, but I am hunting in highly mineralized ground in parks that have been hit with about every detector possible and I am finding one to 2 silver coins or maybe a silver and an Indian Head on the average each outing lasting an hour or two.

So, even though the depth may not sound all that impressive, it seems to be more than enough to find the deeper stuff at this location that has been left behind by all the other detectors that have covered the same area.

Now, at the iron reject setting I will still dig a nail or two, usually buried vertically or near so.

Lately, I have set the ground balance for normal and search until I find what appears to be a good target and then check it again at the iron reject setting. Using this technique works well where there isn't that much junk because good deep targets create a much stronger signal. When I use this technique I find I am finding quite a few more nails, but the changing of the delay lets me know that. Now, one thing I have been doing is to check the target again at a GB setting of between 6 1/2 and 7 on the GB. If the signal is gone, I will dig it because some gold will fall in that range including a $5 gold coin. Most nails will still sound off at this setting but some gold will be gone.

Reg
 
that's interesting! so you ground balance out the gold before you decide to dig or not? I'm going buy my first PI detector when they finish setting up the TDI for here in Australia.
I'm not sure if the learning curve will fry my brain :nerd:I think that's half the fun

Cheers Ronnie
 
Hi Ronnie,

The problem with hunting for gold is that gold has no definite signature. By this I mean, a half ounce nugget from one location may sound off as a low conductor and the same size nugget from a different location may give a strong high conductor signal.

Up until the TDI, there has been typical assumptions about how gold would react and what could be used as a cheaper substitute for testing. Since aluminum has the basic conductivity as gold, a large aluminum ingot was often used as a test piece.

The problem with this substitute is most gold isn't pure, so it would or could react a little differently. Actually, it could react very differently.

Now, along comes the TDI which readily displays this difference between gold from different locations and a lot of past anomalies can be answered. On the down side, more questions arise.

Take pure gold and it will act like a high conductor once it reaches a certain size like maybe 1/4 oz or larger. Add a little silver chemically into the gold in the right ratio and that same size gold will now act like a poor conductor and will mimic a piece of lead, rather than pure gold. Change the chemical mix a little and this same size gold can act more like a piece of brass, or a medium conductor.

Certain general assumptions will hold true such as very small gold will almost always act like a low conductor and give a high tone. So, nuggets in the few gram range will have a closer signature to another piece of gold from a location than will a nugget in the 1/4 oz range and larger. As a perfect example, I have nuggets from one location that when they are larger than 1/4 oz, will sound off much like pure gold and give a nice low tone, while larger 1/2 oz nuggets I found from a location a few miles away give a nice strong high tone signal.

The point of this post is one can't make any assumption when it comes to gold. The only way to really know is to test some from the location one is hunting to see just how it will react. So, until more is known, one can't really determine the best setup to use.

Initially, this may sound like some form of hindrance but if looked at a different way, the TDI really allows one to focus on different types of gold. With a little experience and knowledge, a person can know just what they are focusing on finding. Knowing all of this may mean one just might want to search the same location using slightly different techniques and adjustments to have the best chance of finding more of the hidden gold of an area.

Reg
 
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