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practical limits of pulse delay?

A

Anonymous

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Hi Eric and others,
Is there a point of diminishing returns with respect to pulse delay and sensitivity to small gold? For example, if 10us is good for small gold, would 5us be better? 1us? How about in the nanosecond range? In other words, I suppose there's a point at which the pulse delay can be too short. If so, about what is that point thought to be?
Thanks...
 
that at about 8us you will pick up the salt water so I suppose 10us is about it for maximum sensitivity at this time. I'm sure Mr. Foster or Mr. Bill will correct me if I'm wrong... <IMG SRC="/forums/images/smile.gif" BORDER=0 ALT=":)">
 
Thanks Otto, I saw another PI the other day (TB MB20) that has a minimum pulse delay of 8us, a guy I know has one so it will be interesting to see how that one works and if on the minimum setting he's falsing all over the place or not <IMG SRC="/forums/images/biggrin.gif" BORDER=0 ALT=":D">
 
What's a TB MB20 ?
I guess anything is possible that the unit you saw had a 8uS pulse delay, but I doubt it was working the beach. I doubt it would work on the ground. Are you sure they weren
 
You answered that very well and even I understood it...either I am getting smarter or you are sinking to my level...Hope it is me and not you. While on a PI subject and salt and possible no salt, land situation....How much more effective is the PI in saltwater than on land. Or how much loss in depth is there by being on land. Lets say that I hit the same gold ring with a CS7 in the ocean at 14" and now I have had the ring buried for several months at 14" on land, would the CS7 hit it? If not just guess how much loss there is on land? I have wondered about taking the PI into the woods for CW hunting at home....Good or bad idea? Frank
 
Hi Frank,
There appears to be a slight gain by detecting a object in the salt water/beach as opposed to the dry land. This is not cast in stone, and has not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. I believe that certain targets respond better in the salt environment, at least it seems that way. I can
 
"The dime did not fall back into the hole as I was digging, as with each scoop the signal got stronger, and I could see the bottom easily. That dime was at about 16" - 18". In the air test was about 12" after resetting the detector frequency control for response on the dime.
I owned a CZ-7 and don't remember a "frequency" control. Can you please explain?
 
Hi Jeff,
Despite my bad english, I'll try to explain
Theoretical limits of sample delay
1. There is only a practical limit to shorten SD. That limit is the CF of small object (SO) or its time-constant TC. At SI, the Bode diagram of a small nonferrous metal object seems like HP filter. It is no use to excitate SO above its CF (or to take first sample earlyer than its TC value) because the amplitude of useful signal can't more increase with frequency. In reallity, the SO has series of TCs, inverse proportional to 1; 9; 25; 49 etc, but that isn't important for Bode diagram because cuttoff frequency is the some.
2. However, there are two practical limits to prolong SD. The limits are depending on 3 cuttoff frequencies (3 time-constants):
a) CF of large object LO (matrix, medium). Fortunately we can alternate that CF by means of TX coil diameter,
b) CF of unwanted (discriminated) object UO (which we can't alternate if its eddy diameter is relatively small) and
c) CF of SO (TC of wanted small object).
In theory, for best results excitating SI frequency (delay of first sample at PI) should provide quadrature (90 deg diference) between wanted and unwanted signal. In praxis, the necessary phase shift depends on wanted/unwanted signals ratio. At very low ratio, we should drive synchronous demodulator by interference signal passed by inertial (integrating) device. That is different than GB (or GEB - ground exclusion balance) and different than Corbin's eliminator. They both are using only a model of unwanted signal. See how acts a modern FM receiver. Its demodulator chip uses tank circuit to memorize large carrier signal, in order to detect small phase difference. I'll stop here, since that lead us in frequency domain to BFO with angle (frequency) demodulator, and in time domain - to coplanar PI gradiometer. There is such one shematics by R. & D. Crone in ETI 9/1989:
http://tthn.com/geotech/metdet/pi/twinloop.html
The circuit of Crone Bros has several advantages, which I have listed in a post to Eric's old forum. That's the right princip, but we should improve the sensor configuration.
Mike BG
Post Scriptum: Abbreviations and terminology:
CF - cutoff frequency CF=1/TC. Frequency of SI, at which object response is shifted 45 deg, and amplitude drop is 3 dB.
HP - high pass,
LO - large object. Conductive object which eddy current diameter is large than TX coil dia. By alternating TX coil dia, we can alternate LO TC or LO CF.
PI - pulse induction. Excitation by step function. Synonymes are TEM, "EM decay" and "EM relaxation". In excitation theory, termin "pulse" means something anoder. That is infinitely short and infinitely large function, which integral is the step function.
SD - sample delay. Synonymes are "pulse delay" and "sample moment",
SI - sine induction - excitation by trigonometric function. Synonymes are CW (continous wave) and VLF,
SO - small object. Object which eddy diameter is small in relation to TX coil diameter
TC - time constant TC=1/CF. Time of PI, at which response signal decay is e=2,718 times,
TX - transmit, excitating
UO - unwanted (discriminated) object.
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