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Raccoon State Park

K

Ken Barton

Member
Raccoon State Park
This big lake is drained way down every winter to make way for the spring rains and I am trying to expand our wonderful hobby. I am writing the Indiana Department Of Natural Resources Director. I am starting out by trying not to ruffle any of officialdom
 
I think you have a great idea and your request is respectful and well thought out - I only have 2 suggestions (and remember, these are just my personal opinions).

1. Just a gramatical thing - where you are talking about people who detect, call them dectectorists, not detectors - detectors are what you use

2. I think if I were you, I would keep the letter on more of a personal basis and tell them what kind of hunter you are (you take garbage and trash away with you, you return things that can be traced to an owner etc...). There are alot of us out there who are wonderful at those kinds of things, but there are also folks who would go in there and leave large crater size holes with all the trash tossed on top and you don't want to be speaking for them.

The sad thing in these situations is that all it takes is one bad apple to spoil the pie for everyone - so if they let you out there, they'll have to let everyone who asks go out there and the first time someone leaves holes everywhere and trash all over, it'll be the end for everyone.

That said, I personally think you have an excellent idea and I'd love to hear what kind of response you get from them and hopefully if you're able to hunt, you'll post your many finds!!

Good luck
 
my opinion is dont write the letter and just go detect the lake bed , if you said the beach was perfectly fine to detect then , if the water is low then the lake bed would in fact be the beach at that point , I mean writing a letter will only cast dispersions upon yourself as if there were something wrong with what you are doing . I would just hunt the lake bottom ,and say I thought it was fine to hunt the beach , make them define where the beach starts and ends , in my mind while the water is receding the beach area is growing ... just my 2 .........Adam,
 
Hi
I couldn't get spell check to come through with detectorists! LOL!
Thanks for the response. I will take your suggestions into consideration.
Hh
Kenny
 
Hi Adam
Great idea with one exception, that being a big "BEACH" sign LOL

Not sure I want to start a war I can't win

Thanks

HH Kenny
 
Rather emphasize that you are removing items that pollute the lake at NO COST TO THE STATE! You are doing a good deed for the state and doing it for free. If anything, they should pay you to clean up the trash you will be hauling away. Never suggest a new tax in any way.
 
If it was me and I knew that detectorists already hunted there I would just hunt it. Some pencil pusher who might be in the anti-crowd could put a stop to everyones detecting. I believe that is the chance you take writing such a letter even though your intentions are good ones.

Let sleeping dogs lay

:)
 
My response is simple this............

Go detecting and seriously gather some trash...junk....and as much hardcore trash that a detector can find (actual trash) pull tabs, nails, bottle caps, wire etc etc. Seriously do this, put it in a see through bag. YOU WILL NEED A BIG BAG of this stuff. Then show them this crap. It would be best if you could even get a water damaged (trashed) spark plug from a boat motor.....and throw it in the bag. My point is simply this...Park officials have NO earthly idea what is in those waters that we find actually exist until we show them the junk we find and how we play an important role in helping to keep those water clean. Explain to them about how we help to preserve the water and play an important environmental role. THE BEST WEAPON IS THE EVIDENCE ITSELF....these fools that work for the parks are sometimes very distraught or even amazed at what actually exist......until the detectorist comes along and proves this point........"Walk silently but with a very big stick"



G
 
If it was me and I knew that detectorists already hunted there.

Thats my point no one is allowed to hunt the entire lake rest of the lake only the tiny beach area.

I would just hunt it.

Sorry I don't think I want my detector confiscated.

Some pencil pusher who might be in the anti-crowd could put a stop to everyones detecting. I believe that is the chance you take writing such a letter even though your intentions are good ones.

Let sleeping dogs lay

The sleeping dogs are lying and no one can hunt the 2000 acre lake only the 1/2 acre beach. This old dog wants to hunt:)
If I do not get some ones attention nothing at all will change
Thanks for the response

HH Kenny
 
Hi

Since they do not charge to enter the park in the winter time I personally would not mind buying a daily of weekly permit.
Beats not detecting at all
Good idea on emphasizing the free clean up aspect.
Thanks for the come back
HH Kenny
 
You have to remember, you are not committing a crime. The beach is not tresspassing so the water is not as well. I would not ask them but simply use your best defense. Asking is the way THEY give you notice of what you cannot do. Then you will know and it is no longer ambiguous. BUT, if you do not ask, hunting the beach only (ambiguous term) means anywhere associated with the beach. This defense willnot have your metal detector confisctated but at worse,...told to leave and not to come back. Every first time offender to even a little problem (not illegal problem) is still entitled to 5th Amendment "notice and an opportunity to be heard." If they take away your detector, than throw the "Takings" clause at them (wont work as it only applies to real property but should cause them to look at you like you mean business and that you researched law.
 
How about you coming to Indiana and show me how you are going to impose your will on them, Good Luck! LOL
IMO it is best to come across as a law abiding detectorist! Anyone concour?

HH Kenny
 
I think Ken has a point. If we used that same analogy relating to private property then we would never ask for the land owners permission to detect and I hope that none of us would be guilty of doing that.
Riparian Rights, which relates to lake (inland) or river bottom land ownership, states that an owner of shore property owns the bottom land to the center of the body of water, sort of a pie slice shape based on the amount of shore property owned. This does not include navigatable streams or rivers, the Great Lakes or ocean frontage as their are special rules for these waters. The land owner does not own the water, just the bottom. So if you are in a boat, swimming, scuba diving or floating on the surface of the water in any way you are not trespassing. On the other hand if you are wading (walking on the bottom) or touching the bottom in any way or attaching anything to the bottom or recovering and removing an item from the bottom then you are trespassing. These laws vary in small degrees from state to state but the general premise remains the same. I know that Indiana and also Michigan laws are as stated above because I owned a company for 30 years that installed docks in both states. I don't particularly like the fee based approach, but maybe a permit would allow the state to control the use of this resource. The upfront honest approach is the correct one and the one that will perpetuate our sport in the future.

Hope this helps and you gain permission to hunt.
Bob
 
I like the suggestion to backoff speaking for other detectorists. Personalize it to you so you don't take on the responsibility for the opening of an area for someone else to totally trash.

There are many slobs with detectors, and many who are simply ignorant of the damage begin done to the hobby. Unfortunately the end result is the same.

I also like the permit controlled access (minus fees). Add a check in process to the permit control, and the rangers will be able to see who is doing the damage (not filling holes, leaving trash etc.) if they care enough to keep a close watch.

Good thought process and lots of mixed responses. Please come back with the final write-up and the response you receive.
 
Thank You Bob, for your informative post.
I hope to post the results as soon as I get a response
Hope it is not too dang cold by then LOL
HH Kenny
 
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