Racer 2 Thoughts from the field

[Keith Southern]

Well Looks like the Racer is Back in Black LOL!!

Now its the Racer 2..(R2 from here on)

I most impressed with the Performance gains of the R2 over the original.

Im also impressed with the Attitude at Makro/Nokta...They listen and they make changes..and at times you will not believe how fast they make the changes.

Not just mechanical but also electronically.I have a feeling they work long hours at the company to make things happen...

The first thing you'll notice on it is they have added a lot of icons on the top label above the I.D....NO MORE DREADED 82's LOL!! There's a good size spread from a Zinc to a copper cent..And now we also have the ability to Notch out a target we don't want to hear ..Not a Block type notch but a real notch each separate I.D. number can be blocked..not a large zone like on a lot of units but each number on the I.D.This when coupled with 3 tone and the blendy audio and you have a very Sleuthy Modern trash hunter...and I might also add you can slide the tone break's around ...so you can build you a custom program with tone slide and Notch and SAVE IT!!!

Here's a Quick I.D. Chart for coins to show you the spreads

Dirty Buffalo 29
Mod Nickle 30
Fatty 42
Indian 63
Zinc 66
Copper Cent 79
Dime 80
Quarter 87
Half 93
Dollar 96

I will say for the park hunter or even Demo guy looking for coins this setup with the large spread coupled with nothing and user assigned tone break you can save some time if you're after just coins ..the way it bleeds and blends you will be impressed...also and if you have the right phones and Keen hearing you can tell aluminum from ROUND on a Racer.

The things on the R2 I'm most impressed with is the ability to Slide the tone breaks...and by this I mean In two tone I can set the tone to break from ferrous to non ferrous by sliding the tone break...BUT and I must REALLY REALLY stress this.You can assign the tone bins its own Hz..and by this I mean you can take it from ultra low bass to ultra high treble with all points in between..I personally like to have the two tone mode have the low ferrous tone be as low as it will go and the non ferrous tone be as high as it will go ..so by this I can have the greatest tonal Delineation from one to the other..PLUS I can also adjust the low tone VOLUME..Yes you can turn the volume up or down in the ferrous range!!!! again HUGE...

I was at first scared the ability to slide the tone on the R2 would make the unit too Noisy or less intelligent in iron Vs the original Model.And also because we lost the Ferrous range to non ferrous as the ferrous range has been condensed to accommodate the non ferrous range.. .The original has the unique ability to use a factory break but unmask on a world class level...So my thought process was PLEASE don't mess this up..DON'T loose the intelligence...WELL I was not disappointed and actually can say NOW the R2 unmask better than the original Racer..As it should ..I was just apprehensive of a change but it worked and works well...I would not go back Now..

I may also add that you can change the tone break in 3 tone too and also assign the tone bins its own Hz...

The modes:

2 tone..and its deeper than the 3 tone.
3 tone.. is not as deep as two tone but has more accurate Visual I.D.'s
Beach..
Deep..EXTREMELY powerful..BUT it's slowed down and best utilized in open areas...airtest numbers are in the Stratosphere by the way...(((I need to show a video of a quarter on DEEP it will blow your mind)))
Allmetal..threshold based with Visual I.D. plus ability to use iSAT...that's the ability to speed up or slow down the retune speed of the Allmetal threshold..

There's also the other goodies still there...Flashlight vibration and Freq shift and also a new feature like ability to keep back light on continous but in your intensity choosing of c1 to c5..or intermittent by target report in terms of zero for nothing to 5 for brightest.

I can also add the Black color scheme is very Stealthy ...Also a new foam handgrip allows for a more Slimmer feel and also the Lazy S pole balances well..THANK YOU AGAIN!!

All in all when You compare the Early Racer to the New racer I can honestly say the Unit is way more Useful in terms of Modern areas and also has the tools needed to make it a more useful tool in iron laden sites...the Iron Volume is most welcome and the Variable tone break and tone Hz assignability to ME are HUGE!!!

I cant say the unit is any deeper in the two tone or 3 tone Vs the old Racer ...BUT the DEEP mode is In my soil deeper when theres ability to use it...It's slower so it requires a slower sweep to Properly I.D. at depth...Im my bad soil on isolated deep targets I can say the R2 correctly I.D.'d targets in terms of ferrous Vs Non ferrous when compared against the Original Racer..Targets turned out to be lower brass at depth ...

Yall are going to be most impressed with the tone breaks and iron volumes and the Hz assignability to to tone ranges is AWESOME!!

What we have in the R2 is the ability to take a PROEVEN Site unmasker and push it further...YOU know what the Small coil does on this unit in iron.. I can say for a fact it will go further now in iron...

the dreaded 82s are a thing of the past...there's quiet the spread on the non ferrous conductors now compared to the Original Racer..

I must say this is one of the most impressive units Ive had in awhile..in terms of all around hunter..and still holds the status as Great SITE machine in iron..

Its still a Racer DNA just option filled...Its still no magic stick..But if you like to Use your ears and like a Unit that talks to you then you will enjoy this...Visual I.D. depth is still about the same as the Red Racer ..But in my opinion seems more Telling than the original in terms of target for target at same depth.. And surely unmask on another level and also has the POWERFUL DEEP mode when it can be used..

Keith

 

[Pedlar mills]

Keith awesome post! When u say "when the deep mode can be used" what is it that prevents it from being used? Bad dirt or loaded with iron or combination of the 2?

 

[Keith Southern]

Its more of a mode for sparser targets..

Its slower to retune..and its not the best unmasker in trash because of it..But when used in the right areas ..like say relic hunting in the woods or even a park where the trash is not THICK you can gain Depth with this unit..


It also works well in terms of mineral punch with its slow recovery coupled with slower sweep speeds can give more Target info...Especially when coupled with the Unique way the Racers already see in bad dirt filter wise..

Keith

 

[Frank in NH]

Keith do you think the new round 5" coil works better then the oor's?

 

[horikindaguy]

hey Keith, thanks for the report...

can you comment on changes in 'overload' handling with the R2? improved? still occurs too often?

 

[Nuke em]

I have contacted a dealer here in the UK and i will be getting a R2 when it comes out in a month , might even replace a machine.

 

[Pedlar mills]

Thank you keith and monte

 

[Flbchbm]

How about VID of pull tabs, beaver tails, aluminum screw caps and crimped steel bottle caps? Is there enough separation to help weed those out now?

 

[Ringzapper]

You need to be digging all those junk items! I always dig everything these days , i am convinced what i will dig will be a pull tab or other junk item , have a guess what 90% of the time it is junk. The other 10% often surprises me with a good find , like a coin , jewelry , or other good item. I can't do long hunts digging junk though , 1 or 2 hours thats it , day over...

 

[Southwind]

Thanks Kieth.

Now I'm drooling waiting for my R2 to show up.

 

[amberjack]

I have a question will it hit a 10" dime in mild ground?

AJ

 

[Shenandoah Digger]

I have a question will it hit a 10" dime in mild ground?

AJ

Good question, because I thought the original wouldn't hit it well in Keith's test garden. Some nice refinements and features that I wish were on the original Racer, but not enough there for me to replace it with the 2.

 

[Nuke em]

As with all small target in deep ground you must swing low and slow or you will miss , by the time the coil reaches a target that small at that depth a single frequency coil is searching an area only about 2 inches wide.

 

[Monte]

As with all small target in deep ground you must swing low and slow or you will miss , by the time the coil reaches a target that small at that depth a single frequency coil is searching an area only about 2 inches wide.

I agree about using a slower sweep speed, but not all targets, large, medium or small, are necessarily deep, regardless of the ground make-up. Unless there is a lot of deposition or very disturbed ground, most common targets we chase are still 6" or less.

I have owed a number of "multi-frequency" detectors from Fisher and White's, as well as Minelab, to include owning and using both BBS and FBS models. I don't own any of them nor or for the past few years. I disagree about the comment about "single frequency" search performance. You state that as if to imply a multi-frequency model will cover more than the 2" wide area you refer to, and I believe a single, or any multi-frequency performing detector will really be working the same amount of area.

It is more about How they work and handle such an encounter, because it is factoring in both target signals and ground signals to be processed and dealt with. I have hunted many places, to include highly salty and mineralized environments to less salty ocean coast environments; practically neutral ground mineral through most moderate mineralized conditioned to typically more iron mineralized ground; and compared responses from lower-conductive to higher-conductive targets of various sizes and shapes.

I have used "multi-frequency" models I have owned or borrowed, and I have hunted along side friends who are overly-loyal to "multi-frequency" models and we have compared signals with single-frequency units I was using. I can assure you that "multi-0frequency" certainly doesn't mean all-time best performance or depth. No way. Every detector type has their advantage and disadvantage points and it is up to the consumer to learn them well and master the detector and operating techniques.

For example, the Racer 2 has a new search mode added that differs from the original Racer, and that is the DEEP mode. It definitely can produce deeper target detection, and better handle some ground mineral conditions, but it requires a slower sweep-speed to achieve that efficiency. If operated in an inefficient manner [size=small](use of too-fast a sweep in bad ground conditions or dense masking target environments)[/size], a less skilled or learned operator may not benefit from any deeper-seeking potential.

When it comes to operating frequency choices and use, I like to have the ability to pick a detector model that operates at a frequency that I feel best handles the ground conditions, or lends itself to finding higher or lower conductive targets. Currently I have detector models in my personal; arsenal that lets me select from a mid-point to a high-point in the VLF [size=small](Very Low Frequency)[/size] range [size=small](such as 10-12 kHz with my Tesoro's, Makro 14 kHz with a Racer 2, Nokta 15 kHz with a FORS CoRe or 19 kHz with the FORS Gold+)[/size] to a very efficient LF [size=small](Low Frequency)[/size] model [size=small](my 56 kHz Makro Gold Racer)[/size] detector choice.

Thus I can select the better operating frequency to function, independently, for me to achieve best results. The only thing lacking in my current detector arsenal is a model that allows me to use or select a lower-level in the VLF range, such as somewhere in the 3 kHz to 7 kHz should I have severe ground and/or be concentrating on higher-conductive targets such as silver coins. I personally prefer the concept of individual frequency selection over models that try to work at multiple frequencies simultaneously.

Monte

 

[Frank in NH]

Monte Looks like you need a Deus so you can pick freq. you want!

 

[amberjack]

I have found some of my deepest silver coins in easy ground with a xterra a MF 7.5 khz with an after market coil and some of the shallowest that multi's had missed, so i am a believer that single freq machines can find deep coins, but it has to be a low freq and if the impact can run say 3 and 14 or something similar I will sign up now.

I also agree not all coins are deep but where they are i want a machine that can pick them out, I will reserve my judgement on the R2 until they hit the ground and people are finding deep coins, happy to be wrong at any point about this but so far I haven't seen an over 10 kHz machine punch deep, but as i said happy to be wrong

AJ

 

[Low-Boy/LCPM]

It seems the new racer runs more quite is that a good thing for some it is but I like to hear everything. One way to test any machine is a test garden with the dirt you mostly hunt. If you do that right then you can throw out air tests which I don't care about. So someone that has a test garden should see how different the racer 2 is VS the racer 1

 

[Nuke em]

Monte,

Multi frequency coils search wide and deep for more of their outer edge than a single frequency coil , a single frequency coil searches like a cone shape but at the bottom of the cone it can sometimes be deeper than a multi frequency coil . All depends on coil size though.

 

[GroundScanner]

Not all single frequency coils are cone shaped ( concentric ) and not all multi frequency coils are DD. GS

Monte,

Multi frequency coils search wide and deep for more of their outer edge than a single frequency coil , a single frequency coil searches like a cone shape but at the bottom of the cone it can sometimes be deeper than a multi frequency coil . All depends on coil size though.

 

[Monte]

Monte,

Multi frequency coils search wide and deep for more of their outer edge than a single frequency coil , a single frequency coil searches like a cone shape but at the bottom of the cone it can sometimes be deeper than a multi frequency coil . All depends on coil size though.

Search coil design or type [size=small](the inner windings being Concentric or Double-D for most modern VLF and LF detectors)[/size] work the same way regardless of a detector being a single-frequency or multi-frequency. That's why the same search coils can be switched back-and-forth between single and multi, depending upon the make and model detector design.

Multi-frequency detectors are just that, a detector, not a coil. To use a reference that "multi-frequency coils" behave differently than a single-frequency coil is incorrect.

It is also misleading to many readers unfamiliar with search coil EMF dynamics when they read something like: "... single-frequency coil searches like a cone shape ...". Too often this leads readers to the misconception that a search coil projects an EMF [size=small](electromagnetic field)[/size] in a "cone like" pattern or 'V' shape, and that is not correct.

It is also wrong to suggest that there are "multi-frequency coils" and "single-frequency coils" and say the single-frequency coil may be deeper than the M-F frequency coil. What IS correct is to reference the fact that most, not all but most, of the more popular multi-frequency detectors offered in the last 10-15 years come equipped with a Double-D type search coil, and few come designed for and/or equipped with a Concentric coil.

As a general rule, if a Double-D and Concentric search coil are of the same or very similar size, the Concentric coils might have a slight edge in depth of detection. It doesn't matter if the detector is a single or multi-frequency model, it is simply the dynamics of search coil design and function.

It is also true that, generally, a Concentric coil will provide a more consistent, repeatable response, audio and visual display, than will a DD designed coil, and that is also due to the dynamics of the coil design and inconsistent behavior based upon the sweep approach of the DD coils where one direction has the Transmit winding in the lead and the other direction has the Receive winding in a closer relationship with the target on the coil's approach.

Both coil types, Concentric and Double-D might be more responsive out from the edges of the search coil, but that isn't directly associated with the coil design itself, but with the metal detector's circuitry design. I have shown this effect with several low-cost to mid-priced models over the past decade when demonstrating strengths and weaknesses of different search coils and brands of detectors when people have asked how to deal with searching near metal fences and such at sports fields, or metal structures in playgrounds.. It's all a combination of detector circuitry design and search coil design, and not based upon a multi-frequency Vs single-frequency topic.

There are a few very good books out there that help explain more about search coil design and the real EMF that is generated out from a coil. I have seen very good visual descriptions from both Tesoro, in recent years, and Garrett, even back to the early '70s, that displayed how an EMF generally appears. I have also seen and read too many articles and sketches that have shown a 'V' or 'cone-shaped' field being sent out from a search coil and the writer errantly says the detectors send a signal in a 'v' or 'cone' shape. That kind of wrong information gets out there and the average consumer is easily confused or, simply, misguided in how things really work. Worse still, they think that's right because they read it, so they boast the same wrong concept.

Search coil selection shouldn't be based simply on the size of the coil, or only on the type of inner windings of a coil, but on a blend of coil size, shape, type, and equally important the detector it is mounted to and how well that particular detector works with either a Concentric or Double-D type coil.

Am I trying to promote a single-frequency over a multi-frequency detector? No, but from decades of very avid use afield I know that I have had better overall success and performance by using a detector that operated on a single frequency, and I was able to select the frequency I felt best for the site hunted and target type I was in search of.

Am I trying to promote one coil type over the other? No, not really. Both search coil types, Concentric and Double-D, have their own sort of performance dynamic when combined with the detector and how the unit functions overall. I own and use both types of coils, actually relying on a Double-D design more often this past year with Makro and Nokta detectors because they make primarily DD coils. That, and the fact that they make detectors that work extremely well, even in dense iron debris, with DD coils, better than most of the competition. Saturday and Monday I put both types to use, a 5½X10 Concentric on my FORS Gold+, and a 5" DD on that model as well as a DD 'OOR' coil on my Racer 2 [size=small](because I don't have the new 5" DD they will come with in a Pro-Package)[/size].

I just don't want people to misunderstand a reference to a 'Cone-Shape' EMF or be confused by a size of response based upon multi-frequency vs single-frequency detector design.

What I really would like people to understand is just how well these two brands of detectors work in the real world, and encourage them to get out detecting as often as possible.

Monte