Re: Target located then kept on moving....

[JimmyCT]

The other day I was at my local park when I hit a nice high pitch signal and an indication of 180 on my meter. I then turned 90 degrees and swiped again. At this angle, it started around 176 and I wiggled the coil and ultimately jumped to 178 and no higher. I pin pointed then started digging. I dug down around 8 inches (scanning every few inches to see where the signal is) Then the signal disappeared. ( I checked my pile of dirt too - nothing)

I rescanned again and got a nice high pitch tone with 180 on the meter. I turned 90 and just went to iron -500 something. I also noticed the signal has moved over about two inches. I became aggravated and filled in the hole. I then replaced the plug, made everything all nice and tidy and rescanned. Would I know it but now the signal is back exactly where I just dug. hitting a nice high tone / 180 and at 90 degrees at 178. Grrrr So, being determined to find this item, I take the plug and dirt back out, rescan and lo and behold the signal moved back to the other location about two inches away. But when I take the dirt out and try to pinpoint, the target moves and now it is a nice tone / 180 and an -500 iron reading turning 90 degrees.

My question; am I reading two targets such as a coin and iron in the same approx area? Is this the beauty of iron mask? or an I experiencing a falsing issue?

I know where this area is ( it was late and getting dark) and I am determined to go back and figure this mystery out.

Settings: auto sensitivity, slight threshold, iron mask on, band 1 frequency, audio full blast.

side note:
I seriously need to invest in a pinpointer.
I am becoming very proficient in pin pointing in disc mode to where I can dig a two inch diameter plug and find my item. Something I didn't think I could master on this machine. So I am pleased with the progress I am making with the GT.

 

[tomtomnc]

Sounds like a piece of wire which is hard to see in a plug of dirt. But on the pin pointer get the Garrett pro pointer one of the best on the market. Let us know what you find after you recheck that hole.

 

[Critterhunter]

Either you've got an iron false going on or there is a large target much deeper in the ground. Coins on end can also cause it to keep moving on you.

 

[ZOFCHAK]

The null and the moving pinpoint position both indicate a large piece of iron, most likely deep or on the edge of your coil. Did you try pinpoint mode? Normally in that situation you can switch over to all metal (Pinpoint) and your target will "Move". When that happens on an older site I will dig the iron target and rescan the area again.

 

[JimmyCT]

Thanks Zofchak-


That is the one thing I did NOT do. I will go back and pinpoint in all metal mode. I am liking pinpointing in disc much better. So much better, I forgot the all-metal pinpoint mode. I am in a public park so I do not want to make a big "gaping hole" but will try to get back there after all the rain that is headed my way.

Critterhunter, you have really peaked my interest with this target.Thinking now it could be a coin on edge. I am thinking positive on being a coin and negative on the iron Thanks for the tip.

tomtomnc, I did run into a situation (in the past) where the target was a piece of wire but did not give me the grief this signal has. I'll keep you posted.

The null and the moving pinpoint position both indicate a large piece of iron, most likely deep or on the edge of your coil. Did you try pinpoint mode? Normally in that situation you can switch over to all metal (Pinpoint) and your target will "Move". When that happens on an older site I will dig the iron target and rescan the area again.

[ quote] Either you've got an iron false going on or there is a large target much deeper in the ground. Coins on end can also cause it to keep moving on you. [/quote]

 

[mesha]

Some times you can 90 degrees in both directions and still be on the edge of a iron target! --iron-------x which can give a good signal if the iron has a rusty halo
A good pin-pointer will help, I find if the target starts to shift sideways as you dig it usually is a piece of scrap. Having said that there are a few possibilities

Cheers Ron

 

[GunnarMN]

i bet it was iron , I did the same thing It moved and it turned out to be a sliver of steel siding

 

[JimmyCT]

Maybe this weekend (if the rain holds off, I am going to try to get back to the spot and re-check. I am kind of leaning towards that it is iron, but something keeps telling me to go back and double check. Critter's post (up above) has me intrigued. I am hoping that it is a coin on edge I'll update when I get out and re-check the hole. This whole week is just rain, then rained some more, and then believe it or not, it rained again. lol Must have recieved a few inches of rain.

 

[fwcrawford]

A pinpointer will be of great help in these situations... garrett propointer, Vibraprobe, etc.
I usually use the pinpoint function on the Sovereign too to help me determine if it is a good target.
If the signal sound louder in pinpoint than disc. mode, that will also help you determine if it is iron and can also aid
in telling the depth of the signal.
If I get a good signal in the coin range in disc. and then switch to pinpoint and the signal still sound soft, I usually find that it is a coin or other good target.
Coins on edge can be tricky to pinpoint and I have problem finding these too, but the handheld pinpointer really helps here.
It sounds like you are doing very good pinpointing in disc mode.. I am still experimenting with this, but if I think the signal is a good coin, I usually always switch to pinpoint mode to make sure I am in the right spot and to keep from damaging the target while digging.
Like you I have dug what sounded like good signals and found nothing and didn't feel comfortable to keep digging and making a mess, so I did like you and covered the hole back up and left wondering what that was all about.
I think this situation is just something that in time and experience you will find this not happening as much.
I find it helps to do a thorough scan before digging, becaused after I start digging things can start looking funny as far a signal location and ID readings.
Let us know the results of this mystery target,
Good luck,
Felix

 

[JimmyCT]

Thanks Felix for your response. Your first sentence concerning a pinpointer: I bought a pistol probe and when I went to use it, it drove my sovereign GT bananas! Once engaged, the detector would sound off and a bunch of warble made this pinpointer impossible to use. So I gave it to my brother who runs a bounty hunter and doesn't have those issues. Garrett propointer is my next investment.

I did not realize using the pinpoint feature could help me determine if it is a good target and also help with determining depth. I certainly have more to learn. I'll read my manual again.

I find pinpointing in DISC is much easier than in all metal pinpoint. I found this opposite when I first started using the machine.

What does iron sound like when you use the all metal pinpoint compared to the soft sound that is made for a coin? Usually the iron nulls out in DISC but today (maybe because of the size of it or difference in iron composition ) it (or some other type of metal) was giving me a high tone hitting 173 on my meter. Maybe it wasn't iron and was some other type of alloy but it was driving me insane.

I was out today (5-24-11) at an old farmhouse / barn that no longer exist but the IRON is horrendous scattered like confetti all through the ground. Anytime I received a good solid 173 on my meter and started digging I found these targets constantly moving. 1 inch there, 2 inches over to the right, 1inch back over this way GGRRRR I was getting upset because I couldn't locate the targets. On each of these I dug the depth of my shovel which is 14 inches. I had around 7 of these signals at different locations throughout the field and could not find the targets as they kept on moving. I take that back, one I did find and it was a HUGE piece of iron that I couldn't even think of dislodging from the ground. Today was very frustrating for me.

Tomorrow is another day. Take care and happy hunting. - Jim

A pinpointer will be of great help in these situations... garrett propointer, Vibraprobe, etc.

I usually use the pinpoint function on the Sovereign too to help me determine if it is a good target.

If the signal sound louder in pinpoint than disc. mode, that will also help you determine if it is iron and can also aid
in telling the depth of the signal.

If I get a good signal in the coin range in disc. and then switch to pinpoint and the signal still sound soft, I usually find that it is a coin or other good target.

Coins on edge can be tricky to pinpoint and I have problem finding these too, but the handheld pinpointer really helps here.

It sounds like you are doing very good pinpointing in disc mode.. I am still experimenting with this, but if I think the signal is a good coin, I usually always switch to pinpoint mode to make sure I am in the right spot and to keep from damaging the target while digging.

Like you I have dug what sounded like good signals and found nothing and didn't feel comfortable to keep digging and making a mess, so I did like you and covered the hole back up and left wondering what that was all about.

I think this situation is just something that in time and experience you will find this not happening as much.

I find it helps to do a thorough scan before digging, becaused after I start digging things can start looking funny as far a signal location and ID readings.
Let us know the results of this mystery target,
Good luck,
Felix

 

[Willee - Texas]

Some pin pointer / probes and detector combinations are interactive as you discovered.
My Garrett Pro Pin pointer will drive the V3i nuts but wont effect the F-75 or the AT Pro detectors.

A Pin Pointer or probe is a must have accessory IMHO.
It allows faster recovery of those elusive items.
It does help in determining what the target is in so much as a buried pop can can sound like a very good target.
Once you have dug down 8" and found nothing using the probe it is most likely a pop can.
Sometimes the probe will tell you if the target is right on the surface or not saving digging time.
Also in the wood chips or gravel that some playgrounds (tot lots) use it is easy to insert the probe a few inches into the stuff and stir it around to quickly
locate the target. The Garrett is tough enough to do this.
The faster you can recover a target the more time you will have to find another and after you get used to using one you wont leave home without it.

I cant seem to get the hang of the Sun-Ray type of probes.
They use the detectors electronics and that is motion detecting (for most detectors) and they will only detect the target when moving the coil around.
You can switch the detector into pinpoint mode but most detectors dont have a locking mode switch so that is a real challenge.
Switch the detector to all metal mode and than you will listen to the detector howling while you are recovering the target.
I just dont get the Sun-Ray probes at all.

Willee

 

[dbsmokey]

I was semi-satisfied with the Sunray probe with my Sov. GT. However, I HATED the extra cords hanging about, especially when hipmounting. Add a meter, and extra cords and it is complete cord madness. I look forward to upgrading my pinpointer someday, especially since I am stuck with an Automax for my excal.

 

[Critterhunter]

I won't even hunt these days without my ProPointer.

Many check targets in PP as iron will often move, but I have found deep coins or ones in iron will often move too so I don't use that to see if it's iron. I go more by the sound and the ID, which will show negative numbers more if it's iron.

 

[Rick(ND)]

Myself for pin pointers i have tried many different ones and some are not that great while others are real good, but not cheap. For the Sovereigns the Sun Ray S-1 cant be beat as it is just a flip of a toggle switch from the coil to the probe. I find my target i want to dig and can tell from experience how deep it is 90% of the time. I will switch to all metal pinpoint if I feel it is deeper to pinpoint, I will then switch on the probe.lay the detector down and dig a plug and use the probe to find the target. It is very easy and very simple on the Sovereigns. If I felt the target was shallow I will go from locating the target with the probe to just switching the probe on and use it to scan that area and pick up the target. With the S-1 those iffy signals you get with the detector and after digging the plug and finding the signal in all metal with the probe I find when you get closer to the target I will switch to disc on the Sovereign and can tell if it is a good signal or trash, so it save me time digging more and wasting time. I found no other probe that works as easy and as fast as the S-1 Sun Ray probe. I would be lost without this probe on my Sovereigns. On the Explorers the X1 probe has to be used different as if you leave it in pinpoint the threshold will go wild as you say.
On my Wife MXT is also different as to really pinpoint nice you have to hold the trigger back to get all metal pinpoint to shrink the signal down. I used the Sun Ray probe on my F-75 and it too I had to hold the trigger back when I wanted to use all metal to pinpoint, but will say that the Sun Ray probes are the only one that have disc so you can get the good target in with other metal items.
Now on the detectors I try out and do field test on the Uni Probe with the headphones is one great pin pointer as you got a pin pointer that is very deep plus a set of high quality headphone all into one unit. These are pulse style and seen where the depth is deeper than any other pin pointer out there and does work well when target are deeper in well manicured lawn so you don't have to dig a plug as you can tell right where the target is and work it out with just a long this screwdriver, but like them all other than the Sun Rays they are all metal so you also pick up anything metal. The Garrett Pro pin pointer is the least expensive and does OK, but not as good as the Sun Ray or the Uni Probe and the best for those on a limited budget for a pin pointer.
Many targets and notice it more with the Sovereign will get coins at a angle which can throw the pinpointing off as much as 4 inches, so this is where a good probe come in as many of the cheaper ones will not pick up a signal unless it is close to the target and in some cases touching it, so with the better pin pointers you can hear more whats at the side of the hole for those good targets and can find the target so much faster and easier and done have to lose of leave the target in the ground. I and others i am sure has seen with the S-1 probe where we get a good signal and see it is in a plug someone else has dug and wonder why and check it out and find a nice coin a inch or so off the the side of the plug being it was at a angle. A friend of mine had this happen in a old park as he got a signal on a plug that was 15 inches around (The person must have been using a WOT coil and don't believe in pin pointers) and it sounded so good he just had to check it out even though it was a mess, he found a 1877 seated dime about 2 inches in to the side of the big hole with his S-1 probe, so this is why I myself highly recommend the S-1 probe on the Sovereigns as there is none like it and can do more functions than the others.

 

[JimmyCT]

I went out today - to another park ( this park once use to be an 1800's working farm with a house on it.) ---- with more iron falsing lol. As I was digging today, I noticed that on questionable signals, (but yet solid signals in both directions ex. West to East and East to West swing) but when I turned 90 it would null. In the majority of cases there was orange / rust colored dirt. When I would go and scan my dirt pile and the hole, the majority of these good signals disappeared. From what I gather, the rust creates a halo effect and when I open up the hole and break up the metal rust, the signal disappears / nulls. I also checked things out in the all metal pinpoint mode. When I did this, I realized there were two or sometimes three targets in the area. When I went back to disc and scanned, I would get a decent audio signal and usually a steady 177-180 on the meter. However, once I started digging that pretty much ended the one good signal that I could pull. Then the numbers would bounce from the 177-180 range into negative numbers and everywhere in between.

One hole, I saw a lot of rust colored dirt but there was still a good solid signal. So I dug a little more. When I scanned the dirt pile, I received a blast from my headphones. So now I know, that strong audio and 180 wasn't just a piece of rust. Out came this tiny little piece of melted metal. ( I find quite a few of these at this park)
The end of the park I worked today is absolutely covered with large pieces of steel and iron. Almost like this was a dumping ground or an area where things were heat treated on the farm as much of the metal is melted.

Another thing I noticed while digging was many visible charcoal bits / cinders from just below surface to about 5-6 inches. From the tree line / brook, out about 7 - 8 feet was this type of ground. Certainly difficult ground to cover with so much molten metal pieces.

Then past the 7-8 foot mark, signals quieted down. Then came a few bottle caps, scrap pieces of metal and my best finds to date from the park. A 1908 British large penny (Solid 177 on the meter anyway I turned) and a solid 180 on the meter for the ST Anthony religious medal. - Creed Sterling silver.

 

[JimmyCT]

I went back to this park and couldn't find the exact area . I'll be hitting the area up again as I truly believe there is much more there then the 1894 IH penny and the wheats that I have found.

Maybe this weekend (if the rain holds off, I am going to try to get back to the spot and re-check. I am kind of leaning towards that it is iron, but something keeps telling me to go back and double check. Critter's post (up above) has me intrigued. I am hoping that it is a coin on edge I'll update when I get out and re-check the hole. This whole week is just rain, then rained some more, and then believe it or not, it rained again. lol Must have recieved a few inches of rain.

 

[fwcrawford]

Nice finds there!!
That site sounds like some tough hunting, but may have deterred other detectorists and it may worth
the effort... may be some nice coins in there to be found.
good luck,
Felix

 

[Critterhunter]

Nice finds!

 

[JimmyCT]

Thank you. - All those false signals were getting me down but then the large penny and religious metal gave me hope that am doing something right.