re: volume

[John (scoops)]

Hi to all with the 08,
Does anyone else experience this problem... if i do an air test say at 1 - 10'' inches away from coil its fine.
When out on my hunts thing at 3 - 4'' not bad , anything deeper forget it even with head phones on..
I'm i doing something wrong on my setup, and is their anything i can do to fix this.....
please respond.

 

[earthmansurfer]

Maybe your ground is very mineralised and it won't go any deeper. Can you give more information like your GB and in particular your Fe3O4 reading?
Why do you think it's the volume and just that it won't hit that deep?

 

[lurksalot]

n/t

 

[Cache Man]

get different headphones I use IPOD ear buds. HH

 

[John (scoops)]

Maybe your ground is very mineralised and it won't go any deeper. Can you give more information like your GB and in particular your Fe3O4 reading?
Why do you think it's the volume and just that it won't hit that deep?[ground is not mineralised i can run at full sensitivity most cases: GB: no bars balanced some times reads abit positive than back. i run my Fe at one all depends on interference 2 -3 until it settles down... if this is what your referring to.. thank you for your help keep it coming /quote]

 

[John (scoops)]

yes they do they work fine an loud

 

[Monte]

There were several things not mentioned in your post that could be of interest:

a.. Did you use headphones indoors as well as outdoors?

b.. Did you use the same headphones and were they set for full audio response?

c.. Very important, what ground Phase setting did you use indoors as well as outdoors?

d.. Also important is what the Sensitivity level was at both the indoor and outdoor locations.

e.. Did you use the same Discrimination level at both locations?

Hi to all with the 08,
Does anyone else experience this problem... if i do an air test say at 1 - 10'' inches away from coil its fine.
When out on my hunts thing at 3 - 4'' not bad , anything deeper forget it even with head phones on..

I can assure you that EVERYONE will experience a difference between 'in air" and 'in ground" target response. To elaborate on the above questions I'll add the following:

First, and 'in air" test does not include any ground mineral signal. As noted in your Owner's Manual, mineralized ground can produce a signal tens to hundreds as times as strong as a metal target. Therefore, when hunting in the motion Discriminate mode, we rely upon signal processing or filtering or whatever terms you'd like to call it that are required to help eliminate ground signals and other interfering 'noise' so the detector can process the target signal.

Naturally, it is very important to make sure you're detector is properly Ground Balanced for the site so as to be able to get better depth and performance. If set far from necessary for the Ground Phase at the site, you can have a negative impact on your depth of detection and target response.

Another factor is your Sensitivity setting, which does more than one thing. If hunting in a lotion-based Discriminate mode, you'll note that with a lower setting, let's say about 30-40 on the Omega, you'll not get quite the depth as at or near a maximum setting, and you'll also note that at a low Sensitivity setting you will get a good signal to a certain depth and then the audio response starts to trail off as the coil-to-target depth/distance increases. This is referred to as 'gray scale" or "Modulated audio." A weaker response as the target distance increases.

If you operate with a high Sensitivity setting, you're not just increasing the potential depth of detection of a target, but you are also getting a more "Saturated Audio" or Non-Modulated Audio which adds to or enhances the target response (additional signal strength or pre-amp gain, if you will) which means that many of those mid-range to even deeper targets will produce a stronger audio response than at a lower Sensitivity setting. At the full Sensitivity setting you're still going to miss some deeper targets, but not as many. With the saturate audio from a high Sensitivity setting you can more easily 'hear' a detected target ... some of the time.

I'm i doing something wrong on my setup, and is their anything i can do to fix this.....
please respond.

So, if you're using quality headphones and the headphone volume is the same for both comparisons, and if the Omega is set up at the same Sensitivity setting and Discriminate settings and operated in the same position, and the coil sweep is similar to that used when moving a target by hand in an 'air test," then the only things that can have an impact on depth of detection performance would be the soil mineralization level, the Sensitivity setting, and very common factors such as those.

Let's not forget the soil environment, too. If you freshly buried a target then you'll usually NOT detect it as deep as one that has been buried for a while due to the fresh ground disturbance. Additionally, if the soil is very dry, hard-packed and immobile, you'll often get less depth than you would if it was looser soil, and especially you'll often get better depth of detection if the soil is quite wet. I mean a good soaking down to the coin target depth CAN REALLY HELP. all you can do is make sure the Ground Phase setting is proper for your site, use the least amount of Discrimination possible, and perhaps work with the different audio Tone options as well. Personally, I like to use d2 for most hunting with a Disc. setting of '1' (minimum) so as to hear most iron and non-iron, and I like the audio for mid-depth to deeper targets. I like d4 when coin hunting and anticipate a lot of them relatively shallow coins.

Finally, make sure you learn the best sweep speed for coil in use with the settings and site conditions you're working with. Proper coil sweep and presentation are other important factors.

Now, having said that will it make all deeper coins sound better? Nope, but it will help, and it can also assist me as I learn and master the Omega (or any detector) which is most important.

Monte

 

[jim tn]

I am experiencing much the same thing as John is. The deeper the target, the weaker the signal gets. At 5-6" depth, actual, not vid reading, the signal is fairly faint. Can only guess how faint the signal would be on a 8" deep coin. Today I was using the 10" coil, gb 64-66, disc. 1, sen. 99 and d4 tone. My headphones are Gray Ghost with volume controls for each ear. HH jim tn

 

[Monte]

were these naturally located coins and not planted targets? The modest Ground Phase read-out does suggest that it's not the best ground to hunt, but I also wonder if it is very dry ground (down to the coin's depth) or if it is wet ground?

I use SunRay Pro Gold, or usually Killer B 'Wasp' (essentially the same headphone), and the 5"-6" coins aren't the strongest, but they are decent in most cases. In "bad ground' or in trashy sites they might be a bit wimpier sounding. Also, while I like d4 for "flash money hunting" where coins are usually not that deep, I really like d2 when I want to get a good 'feel' for the target response and potential depth and target size w/o referring first to the Target ID.

Also, i am finding that the coin response audio strength of my Omega is close to matching or often doing slightly better than my MXT's did on the deeper coins (6"-8") so, yes, some deeper coins will respond with a weaker audio, but it's all a matter of learning the detector. Also, by using the All Metal mode and setting the Sensitivity/Threshold setting in some locations I will get better depth of detection and I sometimes rely on that to help with questionably deeper targets. Pinpoint will do it sometimes as well.

In the end, however, I am finding coins as deep or deeper than I have with most models I have used over the past decade or two, and enjoying it a lot since the Omega is so light and handy.

Monte

 

[jim tn]

thanks for your response. Coins were in the wild, not planted. Headphone volume cranked to highest setting. Dirt now pretty dry and the site(s) very trashy. Our ground here borders on moderate to not the best. Thanks, HH jim tn

 

[John (scoops)]

Hi Monte, First off your post are very helpful, hope everyone feel the same..
Monte i think you have answered my question, I'm getting a "Saturated Audio" or Non-Modulated Audio. because i all ways run volume (max) thinking higher the deeper..
I will try less on my next outing..
thank you

 

[John (scoops)]

There were several things not mentioned in your post that could be of interest:

a.. Did you use headphones indoors as well as outdoors?

b.. Did you use the same headphones and were they set for full audio response?

c.. Very important, what ground Phase setting did you use indoors as well as outdoors?

d.. Also important is what the Sensitivity level was at both the indoor and outdoor locations.

e.. Did you use the same Discrimination level at both locations?

Hi to all with the 08,
Does anyone else experience this problem... if i do an air test say at 1 - 10'' inches away from coil its fine.
When out on my hunts thing at 3 - 4'' not bad , anything deeper forget it even with head phones on..

I can assure you that EVERYONE will experience a difference between 'in air" and 'in ground" target response. To elaborate on the above questions I'll add the following:

First, and 'in air" test does not include any ground mineral signal. As noted in your Owner's Manual, mineralized ground can produce a signal tens to hundreds as times as strong as a metal target. Therefore, when hunting in the motion Discriminate mode, we rely upon signal processing or filtering or whatever terms you'd like to call it that are required to help eliminate ground signals and other interfering 'noise' so the detector can process the target signal.

Naturally, it is very important to make sure you're detector is properly Ground Balanced for the site so as to be able to get better depth and performance. If set far from necessary for the Ground Phase at the site, you can have a negative impact on your depth of detection and target response.

Another factor is your Sensitivity setting, which does more than one thing. If hunting in a lotion-based Discriminate mode, you'll note that with a lower setting, let's say about 30-40 on the Omega, you'll not get quite the depth as at or near a maximum setting, and you'll also note that at a low Sensitivity setting you will get a good signal to a certain depth and then the audio response starts to trail off as the coil-to-target depth/distance increases. This is referred to as 'gray scale" or "Modulated audio." A weaker response as the target distance increases.

If you operate with a high Sensitivity setting, you're not just increasing the potential depth of detection of a target, but you are also getting a more "Saturated Audio" or Non-Modulated Audio which adds to or enhances the target response (additional signal strength or pre-amp gain, if you will) which means that many of those mid-range to even deeper targets will produce a stronger audio response than at a lower Sensitivity setting. At the full Sensitivity setting you're still going to miss some deeper targets, but not as many. With the saturate audio from a high Sensitivity setting you can more easily 'hear' a detected target ... some of the time.

I'm i doing something wrong on my setup, and is their anything i can do to fix this.....
please respond.

So, if you're using quality headphones and the headphone volume is the same for both comparisons, and if the Omega is set up at the same Sensitivity setting and Discriminate settings and operated in the same position, and the coil sweep is similar to that used when moving a target by hand in an 'air test," then the only things that can have an impact on depth of detection performance would be the soil mineralization level, the Sensitivity setting, and very common factors such as those.

Let's not forget the soil environment, too. If you freshly buried a target then you'll usually NOT detect it as deep as one that has been buried for a while due to the fresh ground disturbance. Additionally, if the soil is very dry, hard-packed and immobile, you'll often get less depth than you would if it was looser soil, and especially you'll often get better depth of detection if the soil is quite wet. I mean a good soaking down to the coin target depth CAN REALLY HELP. all you can do is make sure the Ground Phase setting is proper for your site, use the least amount of Discrimination possible, and perhaps work with the different audio Tone options as well. Personally, I like to use d2 for most hunting with a Disc. setting of '1' (minimum) so as to hear most iron and non-iron, and I like the audio for mid-depth to deeper targets. I like d4 when coin hunting and anticipate a lot of them relatively shallow coins.

Finally, make sure you learn the best sweep speed for coil in use with the settings and site conditions you're working with. Proper coil sweep and presentation are other important factors.

Now, having said that will it make all deeper coins sound better? Nope, but it will help, and it can also assist me as I learn and master the Omega (or any detector) which is most important.

Monte

Hi Monte,

First off your posts are very helpful, hope everyone feels the same..
Monte i think you have answered my question, I'm getting a "Saturated Audio" or Non-Modulated Audio. because i all ways run volume (max) thinking higher the deeper..
I will try less on my next outing..

Thank you

 

[Monte]

generally you'll maybe get a bit better depth in the Discriminate mode with a higher Sensitivity setting, and that once reduced to a certain level (a good bit lower) the depth of detection will be less. This can be helpful if a site is littered with a lot of trash and/or if coins at a site are usually no more than surface to 3".

Hi Monte, First off your post are very helpful, hope everyone feel the same..
Monte i think you have answered my question, I'm getting a "Saturated Audio" or Non-Modulated Audio. because i all ways run volume (max) thinking higher the deeper..
I will try less on my next outing..
thank you

So, my personal approach is to usually search with the highest Sensitivity level I can w/o a lot of EMI. I like the more pronounced audio response from targets, both shallower and deeper, when in the d4 audio Tones function. When I search with d2 audio, you won't have the same saturation as the deeper targets will have the more modulated audio response. I like this especially in sites where I am not swamped with a zillion target responses. That said, you can work with your Omega and learn where you start to see a little drop-off in audio saturation while still getting a softer, weaker hit on a deeper target. Just don't go radical with the adjustment and use this as a 'learning moment" with your unit.

Monte

 

[Dick from NC]

I've found if you lower the sensitivity you lower the audio response. I will run sen. as high as I can.

I have 2 sets of head phones, gray ghost left from my Minelab which sounds kind of tinny with the T2. A set of Rat phones which give me a good quality sound.

A very important thing about the T2 is if you get a good repeatable signal and dig a plug then you have no signal at all then is will be in the lose dirt in the bottom of the hole 99.9% of the time.

I like the T2 so much I have 2 of them. Good luck and happy hunting.

 

[John (scoops)]

Maybe your ground is very mineralised and it won't go any deeper. Can you give more information like your GB and in particular your Fe3O4 reading?
Why do you think it's the volume and just that it won't hit that deep?

GB no bars,Fe3O4 set at 3 sensitivity as hi as it can go.. 99 no problem... maybe not the right tone level. just not hitting hard on targets.. soft sound.. maybe not setting it properly when i first turn it on...