Low-Boy/LCPM said:
Funny how once this racer that I own came out the company does not post that much..
I think the good folks at Nokta gave a reply below that was quite fitting, and the logical way a good involved manufacturer ought to respond on one of their Forums. It's people like you and me and all the rest who put a Racer in their hands and spend the time to really learn and appreciate it who will provide most of the constructive Forum conversations.
Low-Boy/LCPM said:
maybe they can design a new rod to keep the weight off the large coil and charge us a small fee.
By "large coil" are you referring to the larger 13.[size=small]3[/size]X15.[size=small]5[/size] DD, or just the 'standard' 7X11 DD [size=small](since it is the largest of the smaller coil, solid 5.5X10 and standard 7X11 DD coils)[/size]?
I hope to use that largest size coil on both my Racer and FORS CoRe in the next two days, if the rains hold off when I get to some often productive beaches when I have a VA eye appointment. Otherwise I will just use their assigned 'standard' 7X11'ish DD coils on the beach areas. I have really used the standard 7X11 on the Racer very little because I have favored the smallest '
OOR' coil for the densest, trashiest old town sites, barns and cabin sites I have been hunting. I will be working the standard 7X11 more in the coming months however, starting next week. For now, the 7X11 duty is assigned to the Nokta FORS CoRe.
There are two reasons I have been doing that. One reason is because I mainly use smaller-than-stock coils and the Racer w/'
OOR' coil is simply impressive and handy, since I keep it mounted full-time on my pre-production Racer. Another reason is because the FORS CoRe 7X11 is a slightly different physical shape and size compared with the Racer's 7X11 coil, and there's a difference in build quality. However, I find the main difference in "weight-and-balance" to favor the FORS CoRe design. It has the rod-mount point closer to the center while the Racer's rod-mount point is farther back toward the rear of the coil. That can make a lot of difference.
They used the same size '
OOR' coil for both the Nokta and Makro models, and maybe if they just wound and tuned the Racer standard coil in the FORS's 7X11 housing, that would remedy the balance issue, to name just one. That might be a slightly more expensive coil to make compared with the Racer std. coil, but it would make a better feeling and balancing, and perhaps trouble-free coil to use the Nokta FORS housing and configuration.
Low-Boy/LCPM said:
Would also love a iron vol but I guess you can't have it all. The F19 is maybe just as nice as the racer I don't know if it has the small coil?
No, you can't "have it all" without some engineering trade-off or a pronounced shift in MSRP. I have used several detectors with a separate Iron Volume going back to the XP Gold Maxx I had years ago. I kind of liked that feature, but the detector, as a whole, didn't work all that well at the ghost towns I used it at, or other hunting sites, even though the separate ferrous/non-ferrous volume adjustment was handy. Worse yet, the build quality was terrible and it was loose and wobbly after less than 10-12 hours of hunting, and I pamper equipment.
When the Teknetics Euro-Tek Pro was introduced I ended up getting two of them, out of my pocket, to give a try. Not a bad idea, but the overall package didn't work so well. A fixed GB didn't bode well in the high mineralization areas I hunt, and the '40' Target ID number to separate Iron from Non-Iron didn't allow much of a variable Discrimination. Two of them required a setting of '38' or occasionally '39' with any of three search coils to just reject the four nails on my Nail Board Performance Test. What good was that?
Teknetics' own Omega and Gamma reject the same four iron nails with a setting of '16/17' leaving the range from there to '40' to fine tune for other ferrous targets. The Nokta FORS and Racer need a Disc. setting of '23' out of '40' to reject the same four nails. The '38' or '39' was simply useless. Most better quality full-range Discriminators adjust iron nails out more favorably where they belong in the range of ferrous conductivity.
It had other glitches, but I didn't mind ridding myself of them for better durable build quality, more functional performance, and one that had some form of Ground Balance. Then, along came the Fisher F19. I already had a couple of Tek. G2's and a Fisher Gold Bug pro which, with an assortment of coils, would not handle my NBPT well. I worked them and the Omega, and even with my 5" DD coil, the best they could do, and I mean the best, was only 3-out-of-8 hits. With their 5X10 DD and big 11" BiAxial [size=small](DD)[/size] coils they usually wouldn't get more than 1-out-of-8 hits.
So, to the Fisher F19, which I also bought or traded for two of them brand new. I felt the build quality was better than the ETP. I liked the automated and manual GB because that was similar to the GBP and G2. I preferred the 5X10 DD over their big 11" DD. I liked the Ferrous Volume control, but I didn't care for their Notch system. The red-colored backlighted display was good when it was very dark at night, but less efficient, for me, during dim or 'transitional' periods of light.
I do like a VCO audio for non-ferrous targets, but I prefer to also have more search mode options, especially in audio responses. I also did like the fact that with the stock 5X10 DD and my small slightly sub-5" Teknetics DD coil, the F19 did better on the NBPT than ANY Fisher or Teknetics models I have ever used on it! The best I could get was '6'-out-of-'8' hits which is the break-point I require for a detector and coil to
just barely 'pass' the test. I really want at least '7' or '8' out-of '8' for my personal use.
Finally, I had to make a judgment call about keeping one of these for my personal detector arsenal or not, and the 'not' won out because while I kind of liked them and their performance, they didn't do well when it came to depth of detection, and they only barely passed the performance I want in the very iron littered sites I most often hunt.
Next detector I wanted to evaluate because it interested me was the Nokta FORS CoRe, especially with the smaller search coil. That opportunity came i9n January and I worked it against an F19 a guy had, also using my 5" DD coil for it, and my own White's MX5, MXT All-Pro and a few others. On the NBPT the others all lost. At an old barn and homestead site with absolutely terrible iron junk present, the others all failed. Nothing worked like the FORS CoRe, which was especially at it's best with the little '
OOR' coil doing to work.
I liked the FORS 'Overload' audio performance and still do. I enjoy the overall performance. Then, along came the Racer. FORS-like performance and adjustability, similar coil sizes, especially the little guy, and the same type of 2-Tone and 3-Tone audio options. That was another one of the features that appealed to me with the FORS CoRe and then the Racer in their Pro Packages.
For
me and the locations
I choose to hunt, I haven't found any detectors that satisfy me with ample performance supported by nice build quality, comfortable weight and balance, easily viewable features, functionally designed circuitry and ....
simplicity. Yes, they do make a 5" round DD coil for their F19 and similar models. No, it doesn't match what I get out of my FORS CoRe or my Racer
s. So impressed with that coil that I keep that coil ONLY mounted on my preproduction Racer. I call it '
R1.'
I like the enclosed 5.[size=small]5[/size]X10 DD coil for certain uses and I keep that mounted full time on the production Racer I bought, and that unit I call '
R2.'
But what about the standard 7X11 coil? Don't I have a use for it? Well, Yes, but I do have the Nokta 7X11 mounted on my FORS CoRe and ready to go, BUT, I will keep the stock 7X11 DD mounted on what I call '
R3' ... that unit should be in my hands probably early next week. I guess that says something about just how impressed I am with the Racer.
Low-Boy/LCPM said:
But would love to see more tests maybe written ones Monte should be a PR man or a writer because he is top gun at giving us all the info we want.
Ooops! I guess I might have just done that.
Low-Boy/LCPM said:
I don't mind the overloads it helps me find iron.
I like the FORS 'Overload' feature, but have a greater appreciation for the 'Overload' of the Racer. Very pronounced, very different, and very functional for me and where I hunt.
Low-Boy/LCPM said:
I have not really dug any deep targets with the racer as I have with my deus. I think my deus runs hot and deep and I like that...if you give the deus a small coil that work I would think it may do it all but I like having two detectors they are both a lot of fun.
Yes, it is too bad the XP group haven't figured out that consumers would really like to have a smaller-size search coil. I think a lot of detector manufacturers, here in the USA and those in foreign lands, need to take a serious look at the involvement that Nokta/Makro Detectors has had with their presence on their forums.
Look bow long the Deus has been out and how long XP's been making detectors. Then reflect back,
VERY BRIEFLY, on the announcement made by Nokta Detectors that the Racer was going to come out and the two coils they planned for their Pro Package. Quickly there was a flurry of consumer input, and equally quickly we had another post from Nokta of their interest in OUR wishes and quickly changed up the coils they planned for the Pro Pack for a 'standard 7X11 and the excellent - 'must have' - small coil.
The Deus maker needs to give their followers a better size coil choice, and quite frankly, I think most of the other detector makers just have to figure out how to compete with the FORS and Racer, and do it with a quality built unit at a reasonably affordable price. To them I say ... Good Luck, you're going to need it.
Monte
CoRe 1, 
....................