Sweep speed?

[watchdr]

I posted about this in the metal detecting forum and was told to post it here to get answers from those of you that have the xterra 705 machine.

I was watching the videos on the Garrett site about their new machine and in those videos they are swinging the machine very fast compared to what I have been doing. they also walk much faster. But I have read on this forum several times that going slow or even 'crawling' along is the way to go. Compared to the guys on the Garrett video I am slower than a snail. This weekend I did find myself going faster than normal but still not as fast as on those videos and then when I slowed down and went back over the same ground I found more targets (granted they were trash) so I slowed down.

Now in the other forum they said sweep speed is detector dependent. They also said the Minelab is very slow at recovery. So is there a link to anyone using the 705 showing a correct sweep speed?

I have yet to find anything of value when I go out so I am trying to analyze everything I am doing. I find it hard to believe that if I cover an acre of ground that I only find trash or like this weekend 'cold rocks'. That was fun finding the rocks just to learn them.

 

[westerngold]

I've heard that the 705, because of it's digital circuitry, is much faster than most detectors at "ground balance" recovery.

I'm also not surprised that a "Garrett's Forum" would say that Minelab is inferior.

Personally, I think those guys that swing their detectors fast miss a lot of targets.

There's plenty of good video showing the "experts" swinging their detectors.

 

[Digger]

When others comment about Minelabs having a slow recovery rate, they are typically referring to the BBS or FBS models. Neither of which are single frequency VLF detectors, like the X-TERRA. If some folks think the X-TERRA has a slow recovery speed, they've obviously not used one. With that said, know that sweep speed is both model and site dependent. Being a VLF "motion" detector, the X-TERRA requires coil movement to properly address a target. For example, when I am hunting an open field with a minimal amount of adjacent targets, I find myself sweeping the coil at a rate slightly faster than one foot per second. In other words, if my sweep "path" is 3 feet wide, it might take all of 2-seconds to complete a left to right (or a right to left) sweep. I can sweep faster if I want and know that the X-TERRA will notify me when the coil passes over a target. But the rhythm of my feet seem to be connceted to the motion of my arms and I find myself taking bigger strides and walking faster, when I sweep fast. Walking too fast with any detector will cause the user to not overlap the swaths adequately, missing more soil than you're actually detecting. When I find myself in an area with multiple targets within one sweep, I'll slow down to a rate of speed that allows me to isolate (and hear) each individual target. If I need to put on a smaller coil to help separate targets, I will. And as long as I keep the coil moving, I'm confident that the X-TERRA will provide a target response for each target. JMHO HH Randy

P.S. as to your covering an acre of ground and only find trash or "cold rocks".........an acre of ground is 43,560 square feet. That is basically the size of an American football field. If you're hunting an area that size in one outing, I guarantee you're hunting too fast. The "upside" of going that fast is that you can keep going back year after year.

 

[watchdr]

Ok, so maybe they were going so fast just for the video. Thanks to both of you. My mind has been put to ease on this. I would say I try to go about 2 seconds per 3 foot sweep. That is why when I saw the videos of the Garrett going maybe 1 second or less per sweep I was thinking I was not working correctly. The other problem I had was in understanding how they could take such large strides. I did notice they were skipping a lot of ground and kind of wandering all over.

As for not finding anything of value in the large field it may be because I am not understanding the signals properly or when I dig a target and it disappears on me I give up. This is probably a lesson in patience. I just read a lot of posts about sub gram size nuggets and I got the idea that the targets that seem to disappear on me may be very small and I have dug too deep and then buried them or gotten them on their side so the detector cannot find it again. I don't care how small it is, for me it's not all about the money except when I have to spend it, it's finding something and like I said finding the rocks was fun just because it was different from all the trash.

The large area I worked was a couple of weeks ago and is a 6 hour drive from home. I had the hardest time working it because it was literally so full of trash targets it was hard to get the detector to be quiet. I realize I may need to get the 6" DD HF coil for that area. But since it is so far away I most likely won't be able to go back this year. I may still dig a hundred pounds of junk but at least I know more about this detector and how to use it so my chances are better now.

No one said the Garrett was better than the Minelab. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. They just said that swing speed is dependent on the detector and that it would be best to ask on this dedicated x-terra forum.

Digger, since you and others talk about changing coils for a target how is this done? I mean actually, how many coils do you carry with you and do you have a backpack to carry everything? I am finding that all the extra things needed are a chore in itself just to carry and adding another coil will make it like backpack camping!! Do I also need my bedroll and a can of biscuits and beans?!!

Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Gaz]

.....as I started reading the posts, I started thinking about my response.....I then got to Randy's post and he got there before me!!!!
Basically.......what Randy said!!!!!!....

The only thing I would add is that slowing the sweep speed in areas littered with iron is a must. People who hunt with large amounts of disc won't appreciate this as they
won't hear the iron and thus understand how busy the ground is.....thus....won't slow their sweep speed down.
It's important to slow down amongst iron because it will reduce/eliminate iron falsing. Sweeping slow over iron will in most cases give you a low tone where as if you sweep fast....you'll get a high tone.
It just gives the machine a little more time to process the signal......

All the best,

Gaz.

 

[BarnacleBill]

Be careful when watching promotional videos as opposed to actual recovery videos, especially if you are new to the hobby. If for instance you were watching the promotional video for the new Garrett AT Gold then take that with a big grain of salt. It appears they hired actors from a cattle call, because nobody is going to take any detector over highly mineralised ground and find small gold by using the speed and coil techniques that are depicted. Secondly, and the real eye opener is the portrayal of standing in a fast rushing stream waist deep and recovering small gold. So if some poor soul buys a detector and thinks they're going to go into a stream like that and recover pickers they are going to be sadly disappointed, it's tough enough to recover them on land or in a calmly flowing brook. At the speed they were moving a 4lb nugget on the surface might be doable, but then again you could trip over that and find it.

BB

 

[mapper65]

One thing I would like to throw in here is that it's been my experience that if I switch from the 10.5" HF coil to the 10.5" MF coil, I have to slow down my swing speed. The HF coil seems to react a little faster than the MF coil.

I probably sweep at a speed of 3 seconds in one full swipe with the HF coil and just a little slower with the MF coil.

I would expect the Des Dunne and Kevin Hoagland Minelab videos will give you a better representation of sweep speed being that they are actually avid detectorists.

 

[Mick in Dubbo]

You may want to elaborate on the type of detecting you are doing. It sounds like you are prospecting. If so, there is an awful lot of dirt between nuggets. research is critical, as is a tonne of patience for gold hunting. If you are coin hunting, then it's important to observe where people gather and are likely to spend or have money on them.
I'm yet to see a detector company video in which the operator is using a good teknech. They all swing miles too fast. I do swing faster than Digger, at a rate of about one and a half seconds per sweep. I found by experimenting, that that's about as fast as it's possible to go with the X-terra, without missing targets . If the ground has a lot of rubbish, then you need to slow down. Practice at home with various targets next to eachother, to see how close and what sweep you starting having targets masked by other targets. The more discrimination you use, the slower the recovery speed of the detector.
Have fun and be easy on yourself. We all suffer a level of frustration as we learn a new detector. That will soon pass as you gain confidence with the detector.
Mick Evans.

 

[Mick in Dubbo]

I forgot to mention. When I'm on the goldfields (which is very rare) my sweep speed is from 5 seconds to more than 10 seconds per sweep, depending on how much ground noise.
Mick Evans.

 

[TURNMASTER]

Sweep speed is proportional to volume of trash and so can Sensitivity be (as well as other settings). Lots of trash, no Tracking mode. You will balance to the trash, to a degree, and loose depth on coins.

Coils, My opinion is that the different coils available give these machines a slightly different feel and require slightly modified approach, and settings. What I carry with me depends on how far I plan on ranging from the truck. I rarely carry extra coils, but if I do it is only 1. I can (and do) usually go back to truck, it all is site dependent.

What kind of hunting are you doing? Nugget hunting will get you a whole different set of advice and may need a fairly different approach than coin or relic hunting. If nugget hunting are you hunting in Prospecting mode? If so I think that may require a slower sweep to get the best depth.

Jeff

 

[hotrod53]

I find myself regulating my speed based on target response. I tend to start swinging too fast and I will start to notice, especially higher ID targets, that they become very short and easy to miss. If I slow down, the target becomes more definite.I think that the easy targets can be found at almost any speed, IMO it's the deeper ones and the higher ID targets that will allude you at a sweep speed that is too high.

 

[watchdr]

Thanks for all the information. I feel better about my sweep speed.

I have mainly been looking for gold in the mountains and as such since the ground is not flat like a park it is not easy to sweep very fast. I am feeling better since I am starting to find smaller trash. Finding one little piece of gold would be nice so I know what I am doing is on the right track but I guess it is just a matter of time. I will be going to the GPAA outing at Burnt River next week and figured this would be a good place to get some help and find a possible tiny piece of gold. Not looking to get rich here just to find something other than iron and melted aluminum cans.

I'll be going to a beach and park this weekend looking for coins so knowing the sweep speed on those videos are way faster than should be used I am confident I will find something worthwhile.

Thanks again guys!

 

[Mtnmn]

The basic rule of sweep speed is to slow down your swing speed in direct proportion to the amount of trash a site has. It sounds like you are hunting for both small gold and in high trash areas for coins. If that is the case, then a DD HF coil is going to be your best bet for doing both. The 6" DD HF coil is best for small gold and coin shooting in high trash sites, while the 5x10" DD HF coil is best for finding larger deeper gold and coins in less trashy sites. If using the prospecting mode for nugget hunting and your not sure what you've hit on, it is often possible to switch over to the all-metal mode and check it's TID #. A Nevada prospector once told me that most of the small nuggets that he found in the desert hit between 22 and 26 when using the 6" DD HF coil. Your iron targets will generally read from 46 & 48 and -10 thru -2, while a melted aluminum can be spotted by seeing how high you will get a signal while raising the coil over your target. On a coin size target you will lose the signal after several inches depending on its depth, while a can will continue to sound off up to 10" or more. When coin shooting for modern day coins it is often best to only dig those targets reading 12 or 14 for nickels and from 36 and 44 for pennies thru fifty cent pieces. The above should stop you from digging so much trash. Gold jewelry and rings can hit anywhere from 2 to the 30's depending on its size and purity. Remember none of the above readings are wrote in stone!

 

[Snoopy36]

Go low go slow....

Keep your coil flat and parallel to the ground at ALL times.

Sometimes I go really slow to about 5-10 seconds from left to right depending on amount of trash. The more targets, the slower I go.

What's the rush anyway?

 

[Furious T]

When I bought my first detector, the guy I bought it from told me to swing at about 1' per sec. I probably swing a bit faster than that sometimes, but I mostly go pretty slowly (particularly compared to others I've seen). As some of the other guys have said, in trashy ground, you might need to go even slower and a ft. per sec. As for walking speed, I have seen some videos, and people in real life striding out while they are swinging...if you analyse their style, they are probablu getting one swing per yard walked...that's a heck of a lot of ground they are missing. Going slowly, both walking and swinging, allows you to pick up the stuff the others leave behind. HH

 

[EOS]

In my experience I have to swing the 15"DD faster than the 6"DD..but it also depends on how trashy the site is of course.In trashy places I have go to slow so that little coil lock on target.Working the fields I use the 15" and there I need speed.I always go low,and keep it flat. I think x-terra have fast recovery.The GPX is slow...but that's a totally different machine