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Target masking or iron masking

hartage

New member
I posted a question about target masking on the minelab forum about this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcrVPw9wlyg I would like to ask a similar but different question here. Has anybody here own or previously own an explorer series (etrac) detector and went to or got another detector (teknetics) because of iron target masking or slow recovery ?

If you went from a minelab explorer to a teknetics like t2 se, g2, fisher goldbug pro, f70/75 etc how do you like it vs etrac? To further refine the question..... was the target masking problem that the etrac seems to have according to the video, really an issue ? Is it really just a small/non issue ? My intent is to coinshoot beaches, parks, totlots for jewelry/coins. Thanks for any input.
 
Good Lord, that's some really slow recovery speed. I have the T2SE, F75SE, G2 and a bunch of Tesoros that have really fast recovery speeds. My Omega ain't bad.

Thanks for sharing.

tabman
 
Just get you a T2(or F75) and you will see speed.
 
Hi Hartage - I have used a Explorer XS for about 5 years and SE Pro for 3 years and counting, I also currently use a T2SE and have owned a regular T2 and a regular F75. So I can't compare to the Etrac (its too heavy for me) but I can compare it to my SE Pro.

The T2SE has a much faster response and recovery time and so it is much more effective in trash or if you want to scan a big area like a hay field for hot spots. Also its lighter weight and better balance make it much more comfortable to swing for longer periods of time for an old fart such as myself. Another thing about it compared to the ML machines is that it works better if you swing relatively fast. The old saying about the Explorers - "swing low and slow" definitely does not apply to the T2, so I find myself swinging the T2 too slowly after using the SE Pro or vice versa swinging the SE Pro too fast after using the T2 and so have to watch for that.

Now everything is not in the T2's favor - the Explorers give you more target info than the T2 does since they give you a ferrous and a conductivity reading simutanously. Also the 1024 tones that the Explorers make give you more info audio wise once you learn the minelab flutes as they say. Also the multifrequency design of the Explorers handles bad ground so much better than the T2 can. Not that the T2 can't ground balance in bad ground, it just can't keep up with changes in the bad ground like the explorers can. The T2 will also have an easier time spotting thin gold chains and the like, but I find it a lot easier to tell when I got a gold ring under the SE 's coil than the T2's. Not that this is a big problem for the T2 since I mostly dig everything that I don't think is a nail or a bolt with it when relic hunting.

I use my SE Pro mostly at the black sand ocean beaches we have in my neck of the woods and use the T2 for relic hunting, though after I clean out a field with the T2 I will give it the once over with the SE Pro and usually find enough stuff I missed with the T2 to make it worthwhile. Of course the opposite is true too - if I go over a field with the SE Pro first and then go over it with the T2 I will also find stuff I missed with the SE.

Hope my 2 cents worth helps answer your question. Good luck and Happy Hunting!
 
Tabman, whitewil thanks for the input. Stevep thanks for the detailed and balanced assessment of one vs the other. If you were just starting out and have very little experience with detectors what would you start with bought used? Do you think etrac/explorer or t2/f75. ? My intention are beach sites, park, totlots, and maybe on the off chance, nugget prospecting. Thanks again.
 
hartage said:
Tabman, whitewil thanks for the input. Stevep thanks for the detailed and balanced assessment of one vs the other. If you were just starting out and have very little experience with detectors what would you start with bought used? Do you think etrac/explorer or t2/f75. ? My intention are beach sites, park, totlots, and maybe on the off chance, nugget prospecting. Thanks again.

First off Hartage, I hesitate to try and say what is the best detector for someone else as there are lots of things that come down to personal preferences and methods and so I don't believe that there is one detector that is the best for everyone or even the best coinshooter or best relic detector. There is only the best detector for me, or the best detector for you and these might be two different machines.

However since you are asking I will try and give you an answer. Based on where and what you say you want to hunt the answer is kind of obvious. The Etrac would be the better choice because it can do a great job in everyone of the type of detecting you mention while the T2 would struggle at a ocean beach. However you might not find it to your liking as the Etrac will have a much steeper learning curve and will take more technical savvy to get setup to match your hunting style (swing speed, etc.) If you are a techie type and don't mind fiddling around with lots of settings then the Etrac might be a good fit. Also even if you are a young buck in good shape the ergonomics will have some sort of an effect, maybe not this year or next but in 5 or 10 years time. I have used explorers for a total of 8 years and along with some other heavy machines and other activities that put a lot of stress on my shoulders my shoulder joints are in terrible shape now.

Also it depends on how much beach hunting you intend to do. If you are just planning on going to ocean beaches (fresh water beaches don't count here) just a couple of times a year then maybe the T2 or even the T2 sister machine the F75 would be a better pick. It is much more comfortable to swing and will be easier to use in parks, tot lots and can hold it's own nugget hunting. The reason I bring up the F75 is that it is designed to be a bit more friendly for coin shooting than the T2 which is designed more for relic hunting. The guts of the machines are the same but they are running different software.

However if I had to pick between the two machines and intended to hunt in all the locations you mentioned then I would go with the Etrac though I would sorely miss the T2 especially anytime I was away from the beach.
 
Found this interesting video on the Eurotek Pro and target masking

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMoArnJUlJQ
 
Steve, thanks for the advice and input. I agree with most of the advice given to me by everyone which leads me to my reality. I think the two I am considering are the t2 ltd and the etrac. Both are so close in the hunt that I'm sure it will come down to which good deal I can find first. I find a great deal on a used etrac and it will be that same with t2. Can't afford two so like in highlander (show) there can be only one ! Thanks again steve, and everyone.
 
Have an ET and use it everywhere but a tot lot. Kind of heavy to use crawling around the toys in the lot. When I did hunt lots I dig everything there so used a Tesoro Silver UMax. I use 2 tone ferrous and have unmasked a bunch of old coins mixed in the iron of old sites. When I hear the grunt tone for a ferrous object I slow down and work around it looking for the high tone that a non ferrous object makes. It can be slow but effective. I also use a smaller coil from 5" up to 8" depending how much iron is on the site. Ordered a T2SE to use as a backup but sure I will use it at school fields because of weight and speed of recovery in the trash at these sites. Found 8 gold rings with the ET last year so not only is it good with silver it can help with the gold rings not the chains though without a charm on it. Love the flutie tone for silver, it gives a bunch of info by giving a ferrous and a conductive number. Weight is an issue to some with the ET but you get use to it if its finding the silver which its known for. While the ET can go from wet to dry sand and not skip a beat that is where it gets heavy to me in the heat and the sand. I use the ET for the wet sand and will use the T2 for dry sand. Light but deep in all metal and should be good with small gold as well. IMHO the ET can't be beat for really deep silver coins but it is not the best choice for relics. That is where the T2 will excel I believe. Hope to prove that soon. JR
 
hartage said:
I posted a question about target masking on the minelab forum about this video [size=small](See original post as I can't load it.)[/size] I would like to ask a similar but different question here. Has anybody here own or previously own an explorer series (etrac) detector and went to or got another detector (teknetics) because of iron target masking or slow recovery?
I moved over to beautiful Eastern Oregon early last September, to a small, quiet, comfortable town with great people, plenty of open space and blue sky ... and mostly out-of-touch with any form of high speed, moderate speed or even low speed Internet access. So, I wasn't able to view the video you posted and will have to go on personal experience.

"Target Masking" is simply any situation where a specific target [size=small](desired preferably)[/size] is 'masked.'

'Masked' means a target is not detectable at all, or it could mean the detection is hampered because the desired target produces a broken signal and/or an odd Tone ID response and/or an improper visual Target ID or VDI numeric reference, such that the target might appear to be a piece of junk.

If you increase the Discrimination level to reject the old ring-type pull-tabs, you will not hear the lower-conductive 5
 
Monte ! I didn't expect someone from MD royalty to chime in on my question but glad you did. Your reputation and name seem to be revered in many different forums on different sites. Congrats on acheiving a good solid reputation, knowledge base then being gracious enough to share it with the community so consistently over the years. Yes, I've dived through many, many forums trying to learn and your name is one of the very few that consistently pops up in glowing terms. The only other one that comes to mind right now is Dave J. Anyways, on to the questions!

The video if you can't see it goes like this. A 5gal white bucket filled to the brim with dirt, placed on the dirt are two nails and a coin like this.... -- o -- In one test about an inch separates the nails and coin. So nail, inch of space, coin, inch of space, nail. --- o --- With this the etrac pro would sound on the nail only at fast swing speed the coin being invisible. Slow crawling swing speed and the etrac pro sounds on the nail, coin, then nail again as 3 tones (two tones being the same). The comparative eurotec pro with 11" DD sounds on all 3 items at slow or fast swing speed. So the eurotec "sees" all 3 items. When the test is adjusted tighter with only a quarter inch or so between the coin/nails --- o --- So now it's nail, quarter in gap, coin, quarter in gap, nail. When it's this tight the etrac only sounds on 1 target maybe 2 the coin being totally invisible at either slow crawling swing speed or fast swing. The eurotec would still sound off or "see" all 3 targets even at the fast swing speed with quarter inch gap. Now I'm only guestimating the distance from watching the video. However it does seem like the etrac cannot see targets close to iron "trash" where the much cheaper eurotek pro can. My question is if this really is a problem or just a demonstration that really is not very significant in practice. I hope that explains the video and my original question.

Your post already answers most points I was concerned with however some still remain.

1. I seem to have narrowed down the list to 3 detectors. T2 ltd (5in dd/11 dd coils) or the etrac pro these two are a toss up. I'm having trouble eliminating the g2 from the list as many, many people just rave about it's abilities in iron infested sites. I'm thinking though that the t2 using the 5in dd would be very close in performance to g2 5in dd in iron infested sites. Between the t2 ltd and the etrac just comes down to which good used deal I can find first. What do you think of these 3 detectors between each other ? My intent is mostly beach, park, totlots with the possibility of prospecting. Beach being likely the primary focus. Also, I have zero MD experience so it's all academic right now. I just want to be careful in making a rather (to me) substantial purchase even used.

2. The etrac seems to be quite the quandry. Some people say it's the most easy to use, turn on and go. Some people say it's most complicated to use and not good for a first detector. They both can't be right can they ? Also the etrac seems to be one of the few detectors that seem to be kept and used long term the other being the t2/f75. I figure I can't go wrong with either side. etrac or t2/f75 I know your big on the white's detectors and I've read your posts about mx5 etc. However it seems whites have stood at the top for too long and become complacent. Their product line seems to be old, heavy and lack innovation. It's good that they have not slacked off on product/customer support.

3. Your questions on what I intend to dig... I intend to dig anything that comes up in the foil, nickel, pultab range and also anything crackly low conductor tones. I will pass over any solid iron tones but may still dig up crackly jumping iron tones depending on where I am. Again this is all academic right now. Who knows what I'll really do when I realize digging 15in down in hard packed dirt a zillion times an hr only to be junked 40 out of 42 times is no fun.
 
To Monte: You mentioned you had several detectors that you preferred for unmasking targets that are masked by some thing close to the good target. I know those you use would probably not be the one for other areas. But I still would like to know, with your experience , which detectors you prefer.....Jack
 
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