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Why do they say Deus is not good in modern trash?
- Thread starter enderman
- Start date
you would have found if using the etrac!!!!I'm sensing sarcasm here.
I have a spot in my heart for the Minelabs but the Etrac is a complete pig compared to the Deus, needlessly complicated, cant run it wide open because it high-tones iron, such a shame. Big fan here.
If you guys are wondering what the TIDs are,
A: I don't know.
B: Numbers don't matter and
C: Numbers are for suckers.
I have a spot in my heart for the Minelabs but the Etrac is a complete pig compared to the Deus, needlessly complicated, cant run it wide open because it high-tones iron, such a shame. Big fan here.
If you guys are wondering what the TIDs are,
A: I don't know.
B: Numbers don't matter and
C: Numbers are for suckers.
Tony N (Michigan)
Active member
Can you show all the trash you dug to find all of those incredible finds?
C
calabash digger
Guest
All the ones using the vids and screen really just don't know what their walking over do they! 
enderman said:
Well last week that question might not have been silly because I was driving around with a bag of garbage in the back of the truck. Picture a ball of mostly non-ferrous metal about 24" in diameter.
I see you've been here a while so you've heard it all before about aluminum ad-nausea, everybody has, they say its common knowledge yet gold is hard to get right?
So let's play a game. I don't have the trash to show you, but I do have the coins and such.
Looking at this pile of metal, does anything stand out?
Assuming you could see the bag of aluminum I threw out, do you think there was anything special about it? If so, how do you think I was able to determine the "special" aluminum. Serious question, give it some thought.
I see you've been here a while so you've heard it all before about aluminum ad-nausea, everybody has, they say its common knowledge yet gold is hard to get right?
So let's play a game. I don't have the trash to show you, but I do have the coins and such.
Looking at this pile of metal, does anything stand out?
Assuming you could see the bag of aluminum I threw out, do you think there was anything special about it? If so, how do you think I was able to determine the "special" aluminum. Serious question, give it some thought.
calabash digger said:All the ones using the vids and screen really just don't know what their walking over do they!enderman said:
Agreed. Best case scenario the number gives you the same information as the tone. The rest of the time it is less accurate and one is left figuring out the behavior of this graphic overlay at depth and with co-located targets.
This is a bit of a clue and relates to some reinforcing information I got from one of your videos.
C
calabash digger
Guest
Thats a good question as aluminum is not my speciality... please enlighten us.
sprchng
Well-known member
Mkus said:
Exactly! Anyone with $100 detector or a basic PI can go dig everything and call themselves a relic hunter.
When I used to hunt ducks we used the "in hand identification method" to ID birds in order to not exceed the point limits,,,it wasn't ideal or very precise.
I prefer to not use that method detecting because digging is more strenuous and public parks full of modern trash are becoming a fragile and endangered venue for detecting. The FBS machines , as well as others , are simply better at letting a detectorist make an educated guess at WHAT they are digging up.
Tony N (Michigan)
Active member
enderman said:
Well you certainly are very good at what you do as can be shown by all the fantastic gold you have detected! I was just curious how much trash you had to dig to get all those great finds.
It would be nice if we never dug one piece of junk to find a good find. It just doesn't happen in the real world. At least not with me. I was just wondering what your percentage of trash to good jewelry finds were.
Flintstone
Well-known member
Don't tell every body, they will be finding all that.
Tony N (Michigan)
Active member
Mkus said:
What do you mean you **fig** way more with Deus? What is "fig"?
Southwind
Well-known member
And therein lies the reason you say the Deus does fine in modern trash. Might as well buy your a beep-N-dig.
As a very selective hunter, not by choice mind you, when I bend over it's got to be worth the dig. Numbers DO matter, and if they are not reliable it is worthless to me.
C
calabash digger
Guest
tones trump numbers on the deus . I don't think a lot really ever figure out just how nuanced the tone system is on the deus. A coin shooter could use both and do fine...but trust the audio more imo
sprchng
Well-known member
Tones trump numbers on FBS and other machines as well and they also trump the digital R2D2 language of the Deus.
Coin hunters , or those who hunt in modern trash , are probably more astute to the tones of a machine than a relic type , dig everything , ferrous vs non ferrous , 2 tone carpet of nails relic detectorist. The Deus does indeed have a "round sound" that is very informative but a great deal of modern trash can sound round. Other machines are much better at saying "it's round , but also trash" than the Deus. I hunt the Deus in cleaner modern settings frequently and with excellent success using full tones , but when the can slaw and the aluminum screw caps get thick , it goes back in the truck and the etrac/CTX duo come out because they are just flat better in that scenario.
Coin hunters , or those who hunt in modern trash , are probably more astute to the tones of a machine than a relic type , dig everything , ferrous vs non ferrous , 2 tone carpet of nails relic detectorist. The Deus does indeed have a "round sound" that is very informative but a great deal of modern trash can sound round. Other machines are much better at saying "it's round , but also trash" than the Deus. I hunt the Deus in cleaner modern settings frequently and with excellent success using full tones , but when the can slaw and the aluminum screw caps get thick , it goes back in the truck and the etrac/CTX duo come out because they are just flat better in that scenario.
calabash digger said:
Its all about that "pop" and the tendency for a higher frequency machine to compress the upper range of tones. This is advantageous because it's easier to catch gold while digging "copper".
As you already know, you need to use full tones. The machine needs to be "verbose", this is to let the "round sounds" stand out against the can slaw. Thin foil is IDed by it's tendency to iron fart with a sloppy swing. Larger aluminum can slaw can sound pretty good but usually gives itself away if you swing from different directions, it gets irregular.
What aluminum to dig depends on how much is there. Ideally and eventually I dig it all. However first you need to cherry pick, look for low hanging fruit like zinc penny, aluminum screw cap, higher pry-tab/beaver tail tones. Bias towards the upper mid tones. It's OK to blow off the odd lower pry tab, you might miss a smaller ring (or other gold), but the big ones are virtually indistinguishable from a zinc penny etc in the field. While this may seem obvious and simple to some, it really comes down to execution. The "full tones" on the deus are more reminiscent of the primative Minelab Excalibur tones. A problem with the newer "multitone" explorers/etrac is an extra overlay of tones. (Same with using 3,4 tones etc. on the deus) this makes what should be "trashy" sounds to try and sound "round". This causes the user to dig an excessive amount of trash that would otherwise be obvious by using a more raw audio like Deus full tones.
Some can slaw can sound "round" but it will be a lower mid tone which is why it is OK statistically to not dig it all and focus for higher mid tones. That is why the rings I found are substantial. The smallest one was found early in a hunt, if it was later in the day or I was overwhelmed I may have not dug quite that low but one thing about it is that "pop" from all directions. Canslaw in the ground doesn't sound like it's jumping out of the ground like that, the tone is too wide. Ill have to check on an American zinc, it should be similar, but I absolutely love a Canadian zinc penny tone. For those who really want a number just for reference, a couple of those rings are in the low 80s. 10K gold is usually 50% or more silver which is why coin size rings sound more like copper/silver then they do pure-ish low alloy aluminum. (Moderate sized canslaw from the body of the can.)
Similar to hunting in iron looking for a high tone trying to find silver, it's trying to find round, "poppy" zinc in a sea of aluminum. Instead of ferrous/nonferrous digging, take it one step further into the realm of nonferrous/nonferrous digging.
This is why numbers don't matter because they can't tell you the SHAPE of the target like good raw audio can.
I hope this helps clarify things a bit. The shallow to mid depth silver is pretty straight forward, dig pennies = silver. You know more then I do about how deep silver sounds, well the mid conductors change a bit too but is a bit beyond the scope strategy for low hanging fruit, we can discuss that and how it relates to nickle another time. Notice I never really compare gold to nickle, only copper or aluminum.
I really appreciate your videos. I got enough confidence from Gary's videos to give the deus a shot, however your videos gave me a real boots on the ground type advice filmed in a similar environment.
sprchng said:Mkus said:
Exactly! Anyone with $100 detector or a basic PI can go dig everything and call themselves a relic hunter.
When I used to hunt ducks we used the "in hand identification method" to ID birds in order to not exceed the point limits,,,it wasn't ideal or very precise.
I prefer to not use that method detecting because digging is more strenuous and public parks full of modern trash are becoming a fragile and endangered venue for detecting. The FBS machines , as well as others , are simply better at letting a detectorist make an educated guess at WHAT they are digging up.
I disagree.
I consider myself very proficient with all the VLF minelabs, the deus is just easier to use then playing digital Keno on a minelab.
If you are that confident with your minelab means you are missing really good stuff.
A $100 detector can ID a 5" penny as good as a FBS. You have to learn how to go deep with the FBS but it takes a lot more time to finally reach that epiphany.
The Etrac has something like 1500 TID segments and I have dug silver and copper coins at hundreds of different TID's. The good coins hit different TIDs with every swing, multiple TIDs within a swing. At that point you would be better of with BBS non segmented tones and not FBS elevator tones.
Tony N (Michigan) said:
See my response to Calabash above, it's not really trash I'm looking for so, it's what you keep that is more important.
I like to think of it as coins/jewlery ratio. This particular site is a 50:1.
If I dig 50 coins I will get one jewelry item (could be junk) or silver coin at this particular site. At another site it is 12:1 on a good day, but it's really hard to get 12 coins there.
It's all relative to your town and particular site.