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Why don't we make a free pi design on this forum?

A

Anonymous

Guest
Hi all,
what do you think about the development of a common pi project as the Proscan to be designed here ?
I mean something like the experimental design proposed by Carl for the geotechnology page but with enough information to build it really.
It'll be a good idea for those that haven't much knowledge (like me) on pi designs and want something similar to the www.pulsdetektor.de (these guys are great) projects to build, test and operate, with english docs and reviews and a modern implementation and theory instead of the older and unpainful '70-'80-'90 projects.
Thanks (to all),
Martin
 
Martin,
The idea for a forum PI design is very interesting. Here are my thoughts on the subject. Many people are going to have trouble procuring the exact parts that are called for.
There are also many people who will have a problem with PC board and wiring issues. Add to this that a lot of people will not own an oscilloscope and you begin to see the problem.
I believe that the best way to get around this would be to provide a kit for people to build. Let's kick the idea around a little. Let's get everyones input as to the idea. EVERYONES INPUT PLEASE.
 
Hi Dave,
I think that anyone watching this forum could be interested in a complete pi design and project.
I know that many have a number of problems with electronics but the best way to learn something is to start with theory and terminate with the field testing.
One could be interested in pi construction and theory for the reason that here exist surely the knowledge and a complete , documented design will improve the number of people and the entusiasm around the pi world.
That's becouse I found the stuff on the pulsdetektor site so good.
Maybe they miss something but the general idea is to provide a good source of information and a number of reliable projects one can test at home.
I think it's the best way to move up the understanding level of the concepts discussed in the pi forum - i mean having the homeworks.
<IMG SRC="/forums/images/smile.gif" BORDER=0 ALT=":)">
Thanks,
Martin
 
Martin, my foray into this forum a few weeks ago was in part an attempt to demonstrate the power of collaboration in creating new technology. I suspect (although I do not know) that the people I want most to grasp this idea did not understand what they saw happen right in front of their eyes; or are afraid to tell their own managers what they learned, for reasons of internal politics.
I invite those people to get off the sidelines and into this forum, and negotiate publicly in this forum a protocol for collaboration on a public design. If you will pay my transportation, meals, and lodging, I will come to your location and literally get down on my knees and beg you to do this, because there are aspects of this I see that most people do not see.
As a note of encouragement in seeing the future, I will encourage my friends to ponder the following questions:
1. If you stay on the sidelines, will that stop the future you're afraid of, or will it happen anyway?
2. Is this a learning opportunity you can afford not to be a part of?
I encourage my friends, and some who think I am not their friend who are mistaken, to take Martin's proposal seriously.
--Dave J.
PS: just in case anyone wonders, Martin and I have not discussed this privately-- I don't even know who Martin is, other than that someone by that name has occasionally participated in this forum. Martin's idea is brilliant and I hope, beg, and plead that my friends (including those who think I am not their friend) will consider the possibilities that his proposal presents, things that have no historical precedent in the metal detector industry.
 
An excellent idea, and one I'm sure many have
thought about over the last few weeks.
Malcolm
 
You may be on to something Dave.Personally a circuit diagram would be great,why not do both?
I would hate to see Eric or Mr Bill lose out on this after devoting so much to this forum.Maybe they could be involved in producing kits if they choose.
I hope theres a way round this dilema so everyone is happy.Maybe we could all vote on which features to include,in the true spirit of this forum.
 
I'm working on putting something together like the kit's as I write this.
The idea sounds good. <IMG SRC="/forums/images/smile.gif" BORDER=0 ALT=":)">
Bill
 
The fact that Eric and Bill put this forum up testifies to their insight into the nature of "winning" and "losing". I don't think they're worried about what's happened on this forum, but perhaps I shouldn't speak for them.
Revolutions happen because the energy to propel them to their conclusion is already present and does not have to evolve. The January craziness on this forum provided an example of that. A lot of what got published was stuff that's been around for a while looking for a route into the light of day, and when it all got thrown together, the sudden and unexpected mixup caused to evolve things that no one had expected. The energy available for the January craziness is now pretty much used up, but you can bet that it's building up again and it will become possible to repeat the whole process.
Everywhere you look in the world, you see things fractalized on a wide variety of scales. Spirals? got 'em all the way from the subatomic scale to galaxies; and who knows maybe galaxy clusters. When a delivery system (public water works, city street networks, the postal system) is inadequately or improperly fractalized, it creates distribution bottlenecks. These bottlenecks provide an opportunity for improved efficiency.
If you look at the organization of the metal detector industry, there is fractalization all the way from hobbyist freelancers on up to companies the size of White's, Minelab, Garrett, Fisher and Bounty Hunter. The next higher level of organization does not exist, indicating that there is probably a latent efficiency in the industry which is presently being untapped. In the past, international barriers precluded efficiencies on the next level up, but the recent globalization of trade and the internet have changed the shape of the playing field, making possible what was previously impossible.
Untapped efficiency exists in the political organizational structures themselves, in the physical distribution of product, in the distribution of engineering knowledge, in the production of printed materials-- everywhere you look. Some people will see and act on the potential this presents, and it will improve the entire industry by unblocking the bottleneck. By seeing that, they see other things too, for instance new kinds of efficiencies. The co-evolution of pollinating insects and flowers created efficiencies that would have otherwise remained untapped, or eventually been exploited some other way. So-- with that undeniably functional business model right in front of us in the flower garden, how can we apply that to human enterprise?
This forum became a demonstration on how to unblock engineering knowledge bottlenecks. I hope this forum, or something like it, can be used for a demonstration how unblock mindsets on business models.
It will happen, and I hope the people I know personally will be participants.
--Dave J.
 
Folks, Bill posted his before I posted mine. I knew nothing about it. I don't know, but strongly suspect, that this "kit" is somehow connected with a manufacturer of metal detectors, against whose products it will compete.
Everyone know you can't do that, right?
Everyone knows that you can't protect your intellectual property by publishing it. Everyone knows that competitors have to be viewed as enemies, rather than as resources. Everyone knows if you compete with your own product, you're shooting yourself in the foot. You'd be amazed at how much everyone knows.
And they're wrong.
Thanks, Bill!
 
This is all great news.I wish you luck with your kits Mr. Bill.Will the circuit diagram be published here?
A good design can make you rich producing kits while some us poor people can still build our own from published plans.
I believe Martins original post was about a Free design using ideas from this forum,and that's what I would like to see.
The conflict of interests on your part must be a problem Mr.Bill.Would that not prevent you releasing something technolgically advanced such as an iron discrimination facility?
Personally what I would like to see is modules,even modular pcb's so we can mix& match.If anybody comes up with,for example,a good front end using modern,available parts,post a schematic and if possible a PCB.
Am I hoping for too much?Sorry,blame Dave Emery,his enthusiasm is infectious,hehe.By the way Dave,I sure would like to see any designs you come up with.You could make a kit too.
regards
 
My remarks about going and begging were directed to manufacturers of metal detectors, not to Martin (who obviously needs no persuasion.)
--Dave J.
 
Hmmmm, seems like there is some interest here. The reason I mentioned a kit is that a lot of people will have some trouble getting the right parts. As an example of this, a few years ago there was a published design which caused all sorts of people problems.
It turned out that the design used a 74AC00 CMOS chip. Most people did not notice the A or just did not know the difference and used a 74HC00 chip instead! The HC version was not fast enough and the circuit would not work. The mistake was simple but the e-mails for help drove the designer nuts!
The design should of course be published in just the same way as the Pulsdetektor site. Those who can build the circuitry etc from just a plan will be free to do so. Still, how many people are there who can solder but are a bit short on theory and do not own an oscilloscope.
Such a person would have great difficulty wiring up a coil amp which has a voltage gain of 60dB. Minimally, a circuit board needs to be provided. The person in South Africa who sells the Goldpic kit offers semi kits which provide only the circuit board and the pre programmed microcontroller chip.
One thing is certain in my mind. The first effort should without question be an easy circuit to build and use no hard to find parts. This is not to say that it will be lacking in performance. The design should be for a red hot little detector which is small like the German Tiny.
Pre made search coils should also be made available as I don't see most people wanting to spend $39.00 on a can of nickel spray to make the Faraday shield. Let's hear some more ideas. * * *
 
Fairs fair where fair is due. It was Martin who started this whole thing going. Good on you Martin for the great idea. I am sure that like our German friends, we can come up with a really hot little detector. This will be an ideal beginners machine or a great backup for the seasoned detectorist.
For those of you out there who have yet to build a detector, I cannot explain the feeling of your first good find using a detector that you yourself have made. The more experience you gain from building detectors, the more you will appreciate the experience and products of people like Eric Foster.
 
I think it would be a nice addition if in the kit or diagram, a paper describing what each section or part does in the operation. Yes, it would be like a school project, but it would also give the person a insight into what is happening in the detector step by step, not everyone on here is as technically minded as others. But thru this, it may cause someone to come up with new ideas and they or others may try them. Sounds like the whole project could be very worthwhile, as long as profits do not become the major issue. Also more than 1 kit should be available as to offer maybe 2 different degrees of detector capabilities and designs. John
 
One thing that none of you have touched on is the poor old coil!!!! I think the project has merit and am happy to provide input, or cheap simple PI coils complete with instructions and a bill of materials for Do it yourselfers. One advantage we have as a specialty coil builder is we can prototype and productionise any shape coil quickly and very cheaply. We have all our own in house toolmaking and vaccum forming facilities and a willingness to join the international sharing of information that is happening here. Best of luck with the project.
John Kah Coiltek
 
John,
Thank you for your input.
I don't know what direction it's headed in, but it's going to be interesting.
Bill
 
Martin (& all),
The schematic I posted was a starting point for what I think you are asking for. I have a PC board mostly laid out and as soon as I wrap up some mods I will repost the schematic and the PCB for feedback.
The next step is full documentation (en Ingl
 
John,
It would be really great to have your expertise available to us. As I see it, we need to at least have a PC board available to the builders. A professionaly made coil would be a great asset. I have been using nickel spray with a small air gap as the Faraday shield on my coils. I also tried using spiral wrapped stainless 0.01 inch steel wire. Both seem to work well. Can you give me any pointers on Farady shielding other than the above methods? All the best, Dave. * * *
 
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