XS2aPro battery mod

[kered]

I have an xs2apro with 2 original batteries and also 2 strip/ packs for alkalines. The stock nicad packs only lasted a short time till i bought an Accucell-6 charger and managed to rejuvenate them a bit, one now lasts 8-9 hours the other between 4-5, thinking that i will have to replace the one that only lasts 4-5 hours shortly i was agast by the price of a new pack arround $50 depending on where and if you can find one so i started to look arround for options. I could replace the sub-C nicads for about $30 with new ones, also i could put in nimh for about the same price in the same casing, i took a look at the lipos and already having the Accucell-6 to charge them i found some 1450mah that were real small and at just over $7 each(+ postage) ideal for the job. They are more than double the capacity of the originals so i ordered 2.

First thing while waiting for the batteries to arrive i needed some conectors that could be used to connect the battery to the detector and to the charger for charging as the original Sovereign battery is held onto spring contacts by the door(it has a habit of comming loose), i decided on Deans as they are common and safe.

The original battery setup

Apart form the spring conections at either side is a solder joint, i decided to use these so i could continue to use the stock batteries too

the wires soldered on

ITS IMPORTANT TO PUT THE FEMALE CONECTOR ON THE BATTERY AND THE MALE END ON THE DETECTOR TO STOP A POSIBLE SHORT

Male deans on the detector and ready to plug in the lipo battery

The batteries did not come with a deans conector so i had to put on the female, Its important to only cut one wire at a time and make the joint then seal it with heatshrink, this makes it imposible to short the battery as they come with some charge

Once done the battery can be put in place

the battery being very thin

I had to put in some packing to stop things rattling about befoore putting on the door

While doing this mod i also dis some testing to find out how much the Sovereign draws from the battery to try and calculate the battery duration, i will post the info when i get a minute

 

[Sovguy]

Wow!

 

[arod777]

hey great mod
did you ever find out the battery duration?
does this mod work well with your XS2aPro . I am considering to do this mod.
thanks

 

[arod777]

can you tell me where you bought the batteries and charger?

 

[kered]

Yes the mod works well.
I'm got well over 18 hours and got tired of waiting for them to discharge and charged again. battery still had 11v in it and took a 850mah charge (works out at about 45ma per hour consumption so i should get 30 hours +
Battery
Charger

 

[arod777]

question: the turnigy charger site says "Note: Power supply not included."
Will I need that as I don't have a power source and is it this one
Power Supply
thanks

 

[UK Brian]

Do you really want to buy a charger that has a pile of bad reviews ? Then consider the hundreds of reports on Lipo's that state that your bringing a bomb into your home and to ensure safety you should buy batteries and charger of a good brand from a site you trust most of which will enclose handling/charging instructions and detail what you should and should not do and say if you don't understand or feel you can comply the battery should be returned for a refund. Consumer programs before Christmas reported of injuries/house fires etc that are still occuring. Many problems were caused by buying unknown brands of chargers from the Far East. Many didn't delivery the outputs claimed.Others electrically unsafe out of the box.

As it is your better to stay with what you have and change the shaft of the detector instead. A straight shaft with rear mounted control box feels as though it weighs nothing and the control box plus batteries balances out 10", 12", 14" and bigger coils perfectly with just a little adjustment of shaft length.

A straight shaft design also tends to stop the bad habit of lifting the coil at the end of each sweep.

 

[arod777]

Do you know of any other power source for the turnigy?

 

[arod777]

To UKBrian,
I know you meant well in your comments but you sound a bit uptight.
I have no problem using lipos whether in my XS, a metal box, concrete floors, refrigerators, RC Panes or other. Caution and understanding on how to handle these batteries, chargers and which manufacturer to use is key.
I also hip/chest mount and did not ask about straight shafts only which power source could be safely used on the Turnigy.
I do appreciate your concerns and I thank for that.

 

[arod777]

Hi kered,
Thanks for your input. I have followed postings by you, Critterhunter and others on batteries, mods, etc.
What I don

 

[kered]

The power source you put the link to is fine and will work ok, i use a PC ATX power supply instead and you can make one up very easy and cheaper that will give more power have a read of this there are many other places on the internet with similar how too's etc.

don't worry about Brian he seems to take pleasure in hunting out my posts to disagree, but is also very knowlegable especially on older detectors as he's been arround a long time old habits die hard

Brian, go to any RC forum and ask about the accucel-6 or the best charger for the price and you will find your statement is a load of crap, it will perform as well or better than chargers that are 4 times the price the only problem that the charger has is the fan is quite often noisy on startup but soon quietens down with a bit of lube, when you have tried one and seen the performance you can then comment, rather than relay or invent other persons comments.

 

[UK Brian]

Last time on this subject it was deleted off (was it the P.I. forum?) and then moved on to another forum as people got a little rude about you, not me. "Dangerous Derek". Prime time television just before Christmas went into the dangers if you don't know exactly what your doing or have chargers of doubtful quality. There was another consumer programme re import chargers and the child that got killed when he used one for his gameboy.
The site with the link had a list of reviews(bottom of page). None working/failing after a few days/having to replace plugs etc.

I think your meaning your hunting out my posts or have you just bought a Nautilus ?
Little less time on the forums and you will be able to get out and find something.

 

[UK Brian]

Your totally right. Having seen someone who had a cell blow in their hand its not something I'd wish on anyone. If you know what your doing your safe but these posts have ignored the fact that accidents do happen and the suggestion that lipo's are just improved batteries is not doing anyone any favours.

Sorry re the straight shaft but if you start really putting in the hours, I detect full time, you can't afford to risk the effects of a fairly high weight on joints where the problem is more of balance than weight.

 

[kered]

I agree, like most things if you don't follow the instructions can be dangerous. My wife just chopped of the end of a finger in a mincing machine, she's a Butcher and was using her hand as a push stick rather than the one suplied, How many teenagers crash thier cars and are injured/die due to speeding only shortly after passing thier test, theres a safety warning with instructions on lipos, unfortunately not on cars and other items, follow them and your relativly safe.

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?34,1200008 as you can see the post is still there, nothing deleted or moved a message disapeared, i think my error thats all as i sometimes press the preview button instead of the post message then i just backtrack to where i was, too late the message disapears, both Whites(tdi pro) and Minelab(gpx) are now using lipos, all be it li-ion at the moment, they put on special connectors, ireversable, like i did to cut down accidents from improper use. BTW did you notice the red text? its there to draw attention to cut down risks

Straight shaft?

I detect full time. good for you, i can only get out 4-5(usually 6-8hours a go) times a week

The reason i posted on the Nautilus forum was due to the guy ganixli, i was asked by a friend to translate his posts as what he is planning is highly ilegal and gets detecting a bad name, its bad enough over here in some places(as you know) without more bad publicity from Expoliadores. ACQ is also a local here in Spain.

I won't get into any more discutions over this case, you are entitled to your opinion as i am mine, the tech is there, take it or leave it, if you use it read the label first

 

[Critterhunter]

Nice job Kered.

UK Brian, not sure where you are getting your info on this charger. Believe me, many of us at RCGroups.com have put it through extensive testing and calibration checks and it's dead on the money in terms of the proper process to charge lipos along with the other battery types it does. Some guys have even tested it's accuracy with lab calibrated equipment and it's right on.

The only minor complaint I've heard some voice about it is that the fan can be a bit noisy for a few seconds right at the start of coming on (it only comes on when charging or discharging). Mine does that but it usually quiets right down or I'll just blow a little air into it with my mouth if I want it to do that sooner. Some are lubing the fan or replacing it but I haven't done either of those things and I've used this charger A BUNCH of times over about the last three years or so with no issues. That includes charging in the hot summer heat in full sun (something not good to do, at least try to keep the battery out of the sun when charging).

As for the safety of lipos, Kered did a good job of pointing out to not short out the battery if you are soldering plug types to it. Most lipos will have the proper plug already on them. On my GT I used the JST plug the lipo already had, since that's the standard in smaller lipo packs. The Deans he used is the standard for larger packs.

Beyond that, lipo care and feeding can be found anywhere on the net, or at this thread in the Sovereign forum. It covers nimhs, nicads, lipos, chargers, power supplies, and the proper conditioning and use of the various battery types, along with busting a few myths about metal detectors and battery power...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1178409,page=1

Even further still to the point, lipos are no less safe to use than any other battery type provided you treat them properly. Nicads and Nimhs can do some bad stuff if mistreated just like lipos. Provided you use a lipo charger and handle the pack as it should be (don't dent, puncture, short, or charge higher than 1C) there should be no issues. It's never a good idea to do any of those things with nimhs or nicads either. An overcharged or shorted nimh or nicad pack can get nuclear real quick on you just the same as a lipo, and it's always a good idea to charge any of these types of cells in the middle of a cement floor like in the garage to avoid a fire risk should something happen.

To put a finer point on it, your typical person pumps gas into their car a few times a week. Does that mean gas is safe? Absolutely not, but it is safe to handle provided you follow a few simple precautions such as not smoking while pumping it. Same deal with Lipos. Perfectly safe provided you follow a few simple rules.

Some mistakenly think that a lipo will explode or catch fire if drained below 3V per cell (9V for a 3 cell series pack). Nope, it just means that you've probably ruined the pack. I have recovered a few lipos that spent the night in a tree due to a plane crash and were below 9V total voltage as a result. The recovery process is what's risky. You have to bring the cell voltage back up with a very low charge rate on a nimh or nicad charger. Something like 100 milliamps for a few minutes usually does the trick and then it can be thrown back on a normal lipo charger for a normal charge. My GT sounds the low battery alarm at around 10.5 volts and Kered's older Sovereign model at around 9.5V I think, so risk of draining the lipo too low is pretty much eliminated.

In a nutshell here is a "DON'T" list for lipos...Don't overcharge (So long as you are using a lipo charger set for the right number of cells that's never an issue), Don't Short (Meaning don't cut the two plug wires at the same time or short it in any other way). Don't puncture. Don't charge higher than 1C (Capacity X 1 which equals a one hour or less charge time. Some lipos can no be charged at 2C and higher but who can't wait about an hour or less on a drained pack?). Don't drain it below 3V per cell (Again, while it won't cause it to catch fire you might destroy the pack).

Just about all the same advice above could be said for nimhs, nicads, and regular store shelf batteries for that matter. It's never a good idea to short, dent, puncture, or charge the nimhs/nicads too fast either. Just like pumping gas is "safe" so long as you follow a few basic rules, the same thing can be said for lipos. As another anology, standing on a ladder is perfectly safe provided you follow a few basic rules. Don't follow those rules and you probably are going to get hurt. Heck, the same "unsafe" slant on things can be said about driving, eating, drinking, walking across the street, and so on. Everything in life involves risk, but in no way should that stop you from doing those things so long as you take a few simple precautions.

One final note...As I said this charger has been intensely tested by the RC crowd and it past with flying colors. The same can be said for the "cheap" lipos Hobby City has on their site. Rhinos, Loong Max, Zippy, and a few others...Roughly 1/5th the price of "brand name" lipos and most are just as good. In fact, many of the brand name packs sold in the states are made by these companies and a new label is just slapped on them. Some guys have even taken packs apart to find the original "cheap' brand name on the cells.

 

[UK Brian]

Just go to the customer reviews at the bottom of the page where the charger is sold.

Also worth a look at the news that Australian airlines are now scanning all packages for lipo batteries. There's several reports under headings like Australia bans armailng of lipo's, airmail carriers crackdown etc.

You did a very good summary of lipo's and how to stay safe with them in a post to Kered back in April. Things then went stupid with the suggestions that they are now "safe" and why not save money by buying direct from China or someone running a business from their back bedroom. All internet posts have to assume that some readers don't know what they are doing which was why your original April post was so good.

One other consideration is that some airlines will not allow metal detectors to be transported with lipo's installed and then you have to have an approved carrying pack to store the batteries in. One of the reasons that Whites are not using lipo's in the TDI though Kered said they were. Whites asked me what would make me buy the TDI and I said a drop in weight (the chest mount is not very satisfactory) and the same range and types of adjustments as on Erics GS5c from which the TDI was developed. Lipo's had been rejected as they had enough problems with the paperwork and safety aspects of using lithium cells. Before anyone starts casting doubts on this either ring Whites U.K. or Todd Marshall at Whites U.S.

Regards Brian

 

[Critterhunter]

I have read those reviews. More importantly I've followed this charger since it's introduction and if you want to see the real testing done by some very technical people then I once again suggest you go to RCgroups.com and look in the battery/charger forum. This charger has been put under more scrutiny than any brand name charger by a lot of people who didn't trust that cheap price. Results? It passed numerous tests done by numerous people over and over again. The only issue is some think the fan is a bit noisy when it first starts up. Most other "complaints" you might read about this charger are because people don't understand how to set it up properly. Sure, you might find one or two people who got one that didn't work right out of the box but that's par for the course on ANY product. It's a quality charger and very accurate. I've also tested it's calibration myself and it's spot on.

Hobby City is not a "back room" business as you suggest. They happen to be one of the largest companies in the RC world who's prices have done a lot to bring people into that hobby. As I said, a good bit of the "brand name" products you pay four or five times more for here in the states are products they sell. In some cases such as some lipos the US company just slaps their name on them and as a result expects you to pay much more for the exact same product.

One thing you seem to be suggesting is that lipos are more dangerous above and beyond nimhs or nicads. That's not the case at all. Nimhs/nicads can catch fire if over charged or shorted just as well. I've personaly seen more nimh or nicads pose a potential fire risk in the field as they were either over charged or shorted. A shorted nimh or nicad pack can deliver some pretty outstanding run away currents. And due to the different charging process used for lipos and how the charger determines the pack has peaked they pose LESS chance of being over charged than a nimh or nicad. The m/v setting for a nimh or nicad can be a delicate thing. No such setting is used on lipos. The charger knows the target voltage and will end the charge when the pack reaches it. Much easier for the charger to not mess up or miss something.

A lot of the horror stories about lipos were from back in the day when chargers didn't feature balance charge plugs or self-checking cell counts to insure the user didn't make an error in setup. Most lipo chargers these days will refuse to charge a pack if it's voltage doesn't match what the user picked as the cell count. When chargers used to lack a balance plug one or two of the lipo cells could get way overcharged and pose a risk. In many ways related battery chemistry has become very much more user friendly. That's why most people don't think twice when they plug their cell phone into a charger. I would suggest putting that phone somewhere fire proof just in case, just like I would for any other battery chemistry including nimhs/nicads.

I'll say it again...You are at more risk of having an accident pumping gas into your car than you are using a lipo. So long as a few basic rules are followed there isn't really any more risk than doing anything else in life.

 

[kered]

Quote
"One other consideration is that some airlines will not allow metal detectors to be transported with lipo's installed and then you have to have an approved carrying pack to store the batteries in. One of the reasons that Whites are not using lipo's in the TDI though Kered said they were. "

Especially for you Brian

Two powerful 14.4 Volt Lithium-Ion Rechargeable Battery Packs included.
Direct from the whites website page for the tdi, if thier page is wrong then so am i as its where i got my info from(Direct from the Horses mouth sort of thing)

http://whites.co.uk/tdi.html

Also check out the TDI forum here on findmall, some remarks on the lipo battery charger included to charge the lipo batteries included

And for you Critter, i modded the GT alkaline pack

more picks to follow of the process

 

[synthnut]

Kered,
Nice job .....Tighter than a crabs ........you get my point ....Thanks for sharing ...Jim

Does the battery box cover slide over fairly easily ? ....Thanks, Jim

 

[UK Brian]

Who mentioned Hobby City ? The consumer advice was to ensure safety you would be best buying from a business that had, I think they said "bricks and cement" presence as well as an online one.

Re RC groups who you seem to place so much trust. Its rcmodelreviews.com and rcgroups.com that have most of the current lipo information that I quoted including "The move is Australia Post's response to a decision by the International Civil Aviation Organisation to enact more stringent controls on lipo's because of their reclassification as "dangerous goods".

I've had my detectors checked for batteries on the last two oversea's trips I've made. If you want to detect within a few miles of your home fine but many do travel to other continents and will need to be prepared to remove the batteries and carry them in what that particular airline considers a safe manner.

Don't bring mobile phones into the equation because Yahoo as its main report only two weeks back reported the first death caused by a phone in use but not connected to the mains. All other deaths and injuries were when the phone was being used as it was being charged.