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XY Screen Can Fool You!

I got out for a few hours today at a new permission site. I was fortunate to come away with some keepers and I learned a couple of things in the process. First, if there's more than one coin in the hole, even if they're huddled close (three indians today), the XY screen is not your friend. I had hit several indians and a couple of V nickels today, so I was digging all the good tones despite an erratic XY screen. In the hole with the three indians, the tone was good, the VDI jumped around and the XY screen was not pretty...it wasn't off the charts ugly, but I couldn't make a straight line out of what I saw.

I've found 4 V nickels in the short time I've had the Deus...I've dug several Jeffersons as well...I don't think I was expecting a single one of those nickels to pop up when they did...not once did I say to myself, that's a nickel. Hunting in 4K doesn't help the 4-5 inch deep nickels sound good at all. I've read from some of you not to expect depth on low conductors in 4K...I saw that clearly today. I don't know the VDIs exactly (I can't remember them like CZ does), but it seems to me most of my nickels come in above 50, but I couldn't tell exactly which VDI any of them came in at...probably because I wasn't expecting them.

The soil was dry today, so none of the coins sounded perfect...well, except the SLQ! This is my oldest SLQ...1917 Variety 1. Just about all the coins came in at the 4-5 inch range, except one V nickel which was only an inch down because of the rock bet it was laying on.

My settings for today's hunt:

Freq 4K
Disc 6
Sens 81 (TX 3)
React 2 / Silencer 0
GB 81, Ground Notch 86+
Notch 6-35
Iron V 0
Audio R 4

I needed the extra juice with reactivity 2 today since the ground was so dry. Thanks for looking, and happy hunting!
 
WOW, what an awesome hunt, with awesome results! Congratulations and thanks for the pictures.

Right now, I need these kind of success stories to keep me going because I'm not doing to well with this machine in the field. Your info on the nickels matches my limited observations with low conductive targets as well. Some questions for you if you have time:
1. Were you using Full Tones?
2. How much trash would you say you dig per keeper? 1t to 1k?, 1t to 2k?, 2t to 1k?, ?t to?k
3. Since you have a 6-35 notch, are you digging much or any foil or aluminum? (at 4-5", I've been seeing mid to high 90's and hearing the corresponding high tones, thus digging too much junk!)
4. Any falses from the rock belt? or did the ground notch of 86+ pretty much squelch any hot rock falses?
5. I assume the XY screen is only available in V2? (I don't see it anywhere in V3.2)

Once more, a BIG CONGRATULATIONS on a great hunt! Most excellent to see.:thumbup: And thanks for all the information and help!

---Cladiator (OR)
 
That's a great hunt! I'd love to pull that many vintage coins out of an area! Way to go!

Regarding the funny signals...you're right that 4K is not the best option while searching for nickels - I've recently pulled a couple nickels from the 6-7" range, but the signal was repeatable and there was no VDI - so I got lucky on those instances! Also dug a couple nickels on the edge of VDI range, and remember a few of them rang up above "50". I wouldn't put too much stock into the XY screen but rather concentrate more on the tones than anything. If there are multiple coins in a 6" X 6" X 6" area VDI will NOT be accurate but the audio should be. Reactivity = 2 in 4 kHz on something like this will be slightly smeared - the best way I've found to deal with this is to raise the coil and find the shallowest coin first, then maybe let the ProPointer sniff out the other coins in the hole.

This happened a couple days ago...Got a nice-sounding high-tone target that wouldn't settle on a specific number, it was jumping between 79-88 in 4 kHz. Found an old Wheat 3" down first, and then rescanned to get a silver quarter 3" almost directly below the Wheat. Audio is your friend in this situation!

Your notch at 6-35 may be a tad high for nickels - try setting notch 6-30 and you may pick up those nickels a little better! Sometimes I get jumpy VDIs from 30-38 and occasionally 30-41 and those happen to be nickels...very corroded nickels I might add. You won't be getting a lot of foil or can slaw with these settings unless you are going really slow...
 
Cladiator (OR) said:
WOW, what an awesome hunt, with awesome results! Congratulations and thanks for the pictures. Thanks Cladiator, it was a good day and I'm only a about halfway through :)

Right now, I need these kind of success stories to keep me going because I'm not doing too well with this machine in the field. Your info on the nickels matches my limited observations with low conductive targets as well. Some questions for you if you have time: Please don't get discouraged yet. I suggest you find an area known to be target-rich with clad, then go out there and learn what you're hearing and seeing when you pull these out of the ground. That will go a very long way in helping you decide when to dig. It's been a big hurdle for me coming from a visual machine to the Deus, but I'm loving it and finding more than ever...I'm sure you soon will too!

1. Were you using Full Tones? I pretty much stick to full tones. I want to get used to it rather than setting a bunch of breakpoints for each program, then have to worry about how those breakpoints are compromised when I change freqs. This is a new experience for me as I always used a single tone on my previous machines. The Deus target display is not very reliable in certain conditions (everybody has said this, and I'm certainly seeing it), so using multiple tones helps me with the ID.

2. How much trash would you say you dig per keeper? 1t to 1k?, 1t to 2k?, 2t to 1k?, ?t to?k As I begin to understand what I'm hearing and, to some extent, what I'm seeing on the display, I'm digging fewer obvious trash-only targets. But how often I dig trash vs a keeper really depends on the site I'm at. I don't treat this yard the same as a park. In this yard I was digging more good targets (silver, indians, vnicks, wheats, clad, the locket piece in my photo, etc.) than I was trash targets, simply because the keepers were there--I was fooled several times by square nails at this site. They ring up very good at times, but often they sound too good in the very high silver range and failed to repeat when sweeping at a different angle (except those darn bent ones). Likewise, smallish flat or balled-up iron (can parts, etc.) give those high silver too-good-to-be-true signals with a great xy trace...but after digging a couple of those, I used the bottlecap-switch-freq-method and I dug no more of those. After a while, it becomes pretty easy to hear/see the differences between the trash and the coins. The SLQ sound was right in there with the bottlecap range, but it just sounded much better/fuller than trash...when you spend many hours in the field and your coil goes over a nice silver like that, it gets your attention quick because it sounds really good. Don't get me wrong, there are many many times when these silvers and other keepers are collocated with trash that they don't sound as pristine. But you will hear a good tone in the mix, may be repeatable from another angle and if you're lucky you will see your desired VDI pop up on the screen now and then as it bounces between good and evil :). I was fortunate--this was a target-rich environment. However, if for example, the yard contained none of these targets that I dug, I would probably have dug more obvious trash signals just looking for something to put in my pocket. But the presence of keepers made it easier to discern the trash...if that makes any sense. In this yard it was the nickels, with repeatable, but with somewhat broken sounds that surprised me--I was almost certain I was digging trash, but the good tones kept coming through. The 3 indian spill was also a surprise because the tone was decent, not perfect, but was repeatable but bouncy in tone and VDI. I think the numbers ranged to high 50s into low 70s.

Hunted parks are much much different story for me. I find one or two keepers in I'd guess about 50 it seems sometimes--but my ratio is improving. 1:50 is a tough pill to swallow because while it's rewarding for me to pull a missed silver by my detecting brethren in a park, it often takes most of the day evaluating/digging targets and hunting at a snail's pace. I get tired of digging certain types of trash hoping for a keeper in the mix and the ears get very tired of listening when there's no respite now and then. That's the bad news. But I have a ray of hope for you with regard to the trashy parks. Every time I did find a keeper, there was a nice clue to it before I dug. It's enabled me to speed up a little and avoid as much trash. Digging trash of course will reveal a keeper now and then, but sometimes we're not in the mood to trash collect on a hope. It's a simple clue really. As you know, in most parks the obvious keepers have already been snatched up. And you know the remaining keepers are hidden next to something else. You sweep all day looking for it and often spend too much time trying to turn a trash signal into a good signal only to find more trash. Each one of the handful of keepers I've found in hunted parks showed themselves with a nice tone and a bouncy good VDI in the sweeps. It's a different tone and display from pure trash--it's not making something out of nothing; it is there and it is obvious. It's as simple as that and you'll know what I mean when you do this several times. Look for the odd tone in with the trash and perhaps a VDI that flashes up on the screen that tells you that this is different. The other day I spent all day in a park digging nothing but trash until the very end. I came across a signal that was different--it ended up being a wheat someone had missed because of collocated trash. I knew before I dug it that there was either a dime or penny hidden. There was a good tone in the mix and a mid-70s popped in and out on the screen. I was able to lock on and reveal the wheat. While it was troubling that I had driven an hour, and dug trash for 6 hours, it was a very educational moment and I think I'm now somewhat more armed to cover a lot more ground and much less digging in search of these signals. That's why I suggest you hunt a place known to have clad so you can see this many times for yourself. It'll payoff big when you go to an older area with hard-to-find keepers--you'll zip right past the junk in search of these signs. Of course, in order to do this, you'll have to have the right settings on the Deus for the conditions, but as you've clearly shown with your tests and the amount of reading you've done, I think you've got a strong handle on that. BTW, thanks again for your tests; I reduced my sens settings and changed silencer to 0 and seems to help keep the Deus quieter and easier to listen for good targets.


3. Since you have a 6-35 notch, are you digging much or any foil or aluminum? (at 4-5", I've been seeing mid to high 90's and hearing the corresponding high tones, thus digging too much junk!) I dig a few pieces of twisted can slaw now and then. And once in a while I'm fooled by the shallow, paper-thin pieces of foil. But most of it is notched out. When I do, it's because the signal is just iffy enough not to pass up. I'm not a lot of help on this one because I don't dig a lot of it and two, I haven't learned how to distinguish between foil/aluminum and good targets yet. One thing I've learned though, is to be suspicious of those perfect mid-to-high 90s (tone & VDI). Although I've been fortunate enough to dig a morgan dollar since I've had the Deus, that high tone sounds much more solid and fuller than a high tone emitted by trash. A bigger problem for all of us is distinguishing the tone/display of a deep silver dime from a high tone coming from trash.

4. Any falses from the rock belt? or did the ground notch of 86+ pretty much squelch any hot rock falses? I had no falsing whatsoever from the rocks. The yard was littered with chunks of red brick too, and I had no problem with those either. I use ground notch about half the time I hunt, but with or without it I have not had a problem with falsing in low emi areas. I've been to one place where I couldn't keep the machine quiet because of emi and no amount of ground notching I tried resolved the chatter. I had to reduce sens to a ridiculous level to get relief and it just wasn't worth it, so I moved on.

5. I assume the XY screen is only available in V2? (I don't see it anywhere in V3.2) I use V3.2--it's there. After turning on the remote, go to options > configuration. Press + and pinpoint together - now you will see the word advanced in the options menu. There you will find visualisation x y

Once more, a BIG CONGRATULATIONS on a great hunt! Most excellent to see.:thumbup: And thanks for all the information and help! Thanks again Cladiator--be sure to keep us posted on your results!

---Cladiator (OR)
 
CZconnoisseur said:
That's a great hunt! I'd love to pull that many vintage coins out of an area! Way to go! Thanks CZ--you're welcome to come out and hunt with me in Nebraska anytime so I can pick your brain!

Regarding the funny signals...you're right that 4K is not the best option while searching for nickels - I've recently pulled a couple nickels from the 6-7" range, but the signal was repeatable and there was no VDI - so I got lucky on those instances! Also dug a couple nickels on the edge of VDI range, and remember a few of them rang up above "50". I wouldn't put too much stock into the XY screen but rather concentrate more on the tones than anything. If there are multiple coins in a 6" X 6" X 6" area VDI will NOT be accurate but the audio should be. Reactivity = 2 in 4 kHz on something like this will be slightly smeared - the best way I've found to deal with this is to raise the coil and find the shallowest coin first, then maybe let the ProPointer sniff out the other coins in the hole. This makes perfect sense--and I'll also use your suggestion of reducing notch to 30.

This happened a couple days ago...Got a nice-sounding high-tone target that wouldn't settle on a specific number, it was jumping between 79-88 in 4 kHz. Found an old Wheat 3" down first, and then rescanned to get a silver quarter 3" almost directly below the Wheat. Audio is your friend in this situation! Everyone keeps saying audio, audio, audio...I'm learning that now :)

Your notch at 6-35 may be a tad high for nickels - try setting notch 6-30 and you may pick up those nickels a little better! Sometimes I get jumpy VDIs from 30-38 and occasionally 30-41 and those happen to be nickels...very corroded nickels I might add. You won't be getting a lot of foil or can slaw with these settings unless you are going really slow...This is a great tip--I'll reduce notch to 30--also, as you've said how slow we sweep our coils makes a tremendous impact on what we find at all depths. Thanks CZ!
 
Hi beepsilver,

Thank you so much for taking the time to provide the very detailed responses with observations and explanations to my questions. I gleaned a lot of really good information from your responses concerning what I've been experiencing and possible solutions that will help me going forward. (I even found the XY screen--thank you!)

It is a really big help to those of us trying to make sense of the sounds and operating characteristics of the Deus.

And again, congratulations on the first half of this hunt. I hope the second half proves equally or more fruitful, and thanks for all the helpful information.

---Cladiator
 
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