BootyHunter
Active member
With all the buzz of SMF and depth claims, I am wondering if they have reached or surpassed some of the older P.i. units for in water detecting. If you have used both, lets hear your thoughts.
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Has SMF reached the depth of P.I. detectors like the Infinium and Seahunter?
- Thread starter BootyHunter
- Start date
WaterWalker
Well-known member
If anyone says one is better than the other, I would like to know how they determined which one was better, the same or worse than the other. Especially as it would be quite difficult to set up a test bed in a salt water environment and switch between detectors over a specific, single target. I have several different detectors and and have found outstanding items with each but I would not be comfortable in saying one detector is better than another. I would say that it is the operator's knowledge of the equipment that would make a difference. In Hawaii's black sand a PI wins hands down. Other than that I go with the detector that fits a specific beach's environment the best including trash, rocks or sand, seaweed, salt or fresh water and the weight of the detector. My two three most used detectors are the Manticore, Excalibur and ATX.
OldBeechnut
Well-known member
I've compared my Excalibur on raw depth on the wet sand In PP/all metal with the Sea Hunter, Sand Shark and the older Whites PI 1000/2000..and there as no compare for the excalibur is deeper. And that being said I have hunted behind the Nox 800 and 900 and the Manticore and found they are missing good (deep) targets. Im not sure on the D2 for I have yet to run into anyone using it. I also tested the Whites DF against the Excalibur and I found the excalibur deeper but after talking to a few DF hunters found the response of deep targets with the DF is a negative drop out of the threshold which may have been the reason.
On some of the newer PIs like the Whites PI TDI BH No way they can even come close. Then you have the Fisher AQ, Excalibur don't even come close to its depth, so I know the D2 and Manticore would be the same.
On the Sea Hunter, my old hunting partner had one and I used it a few times. After he seen how I was doing with the Excalibur he ditched the SH.. Same goes for the CTX, had a guy hunting up north of me in the Bay. He was killing the gold. I asked once he got the place cleaned out if he minded I come up and hunt with the excal, a few months later Mike contacted me and said they had hit it very hard and felt there was not much left. My first trip there I got several silvers and 1 or two golds. Almost the very next day Mike had a Excalibur and went to town on the place.. he really cleaned the place out then.. about 50 more gold and many silvers..
And a interesting side not, I went up to Jersey to meet a couple guys who were swinging the CZ21 and some garret . The best the excalibur could do on a 7 gram gold was 14 inches, that dag CZ 21 was hitting it at 16 to 18. And keep in mind the excalibur has a wider field at that depth and the CZ has a narrow cone shape field. But if you can get that cone over that 18 inch deep gold.. its a digger for sure. So the old saying the CZ20s and 21s... some can be Hotter then others is true.
Bottom line.. It would not surprise me that the newer tech machines are deeper than the Sea Hunter ..Sand Shark.. but anything else I highly doubt.
Excal and the 800.. me finding deep targets and the Nox coming behind trying to hear them..
On some of the newer PIs like the Whites PI TDI BH No way they can even come close. Then you have the Fisher AQ, Excalibur don't even come close to its depth, so I know the D2 and Manticore would be the same.
On the Sea Hunter, my old hunting partner had one and I used it a few times. After he seen how I was doing with the Excalibur he ditched the SH.. Same goes for the CTX, had a guy hunting up north of me in the Bay. He was killing the gold. I asked once he got the place cleaned out if he minded I come up and hunt with the excal, a few months later Mike contacted me and said they had hit it very hard and felt there was not much left. My first trip there I got several silvers and 1 or two golds. Almost the very next day Mike had a Excalibur and went to town on the place.. he really cleaned the place out then.. about 50 more gold and many silvers..
And a interesting side not, I went up to Jersey to meet a couple guys who were swinging the CZ21 and some garret . The best the excalibur could do on a 7 gram gold was 14 inches, that dag CZ 21 was hitting it at 16 to 18. And keep in mind the excalibur has a wider field at that depth and the CZ has a narrow cone shape field. But if you can get that cone over that 18 inch deep gold.. its a digger for sure. So the old saying the CZ20s and 21s... some can be Hotter then others is true.
Bottom line.. It would not surprise me that the newer tech machines are deeper than the Sea Hunter ..Sand Shark.. but anything else I highly doubt.
Excal and the 800.. me finding deep targets and the Nox coming behind trying to hear them..
I remember the testing you did with that CZ and how deep it was. On the deep gold it heard it well but went full low tone (iron) on it in discriminate mode. Shortly after that I started hunting my CZs in autotune (all metal) and learning to listen to signal width to help identify targets. Thank you for that lesson! That helped me get many more gold than I would have otherwise found. And yes, the AQ is deep!
bigchuckinva
Well-known member
No In Bad Soils / Beach P.I. Still get more Depth!
OldBeechnut
Well-known member
Minelab Pirate
Well-known member
It really depends on coil size and power. I took a GPX5000 to the beach and was digging toy matchbox cars at 30-inches. I'll never do that again!
Nauti
Well-known member
That's pretty much what I found with my Sovereign and Seahunter,although my Sovereign has had a mod which gives it a slight bit more depth.I did the usual burying targets in the damp/wet sand and found there was little reason to keep using a seahunter with its weight and lack of discrimination,it hit hard on deep iron targets but coins etc there seemed to be no advantage.
Best detector i ever used on the beach was White's Beach hunter 300,I compared that against the Sovereign and my mates excalibur and it was hands down deeper in the all metal mode.......like the cz21 it had a concentriccoil so this could have been the reason,wish I still had that detector.
Sand Sifter
Member
I've been running a Minelab BBS Sovereign Elite with 12x10 & 15x12 SEF Butterfly coils on the beaches for the last 14 or so years. Recently picked up an X-Terra Elite w/12" elliptical coil, but haven't had it out yet, so I'm curious as to how it will stack up against my Sovereign. The BBS Sovereigns & Excalibur's were SMF before the term SMF was coined. We just called them BBS (Broad Band Spectrum), which just means multi-frequency but nowadays I guess I'll refer to them as SMF's as well.
Personally, I think there's a variety of factors to consider when trying to decide to go with an SMF or P.I., as depth isn't everything, at least for me. Digging deep in dry sand is taxing enough, but digging deep in wet sand or under water is a whole nother matter. Personally, my Sovereign and SEF coils have had me digging 1/2 way to China more times than I can count. I always say it detects deeper than I really want to dig, lol. And for me, I don't really care if the X-Terra Elite I recently picked up detects deeper than my Sovereign. If it detects just as deep, I'll be happy. I picked up the X-Terra as it's also SMF, lighter, waterproof, has more bells and whistles than any detector I've ever owned, wireless headphones, etc., and for me, I consider it to be a grab and go type detector, not much to really have to set up like I have to do with my Sovereign. I also think the X-Terra will be a better choice for me when hunting on land, due to TID and depth indicators.
I've been tempted over the years to give a P.I. a shot, but my perspective might not be the same as yours. I'm 67 but 68 is quickly approaching this summer, and the thought of digging deeper or digging every piece of metal without knowing what or at least having an idea of what it may be isn't very appealing. Of course, when detecting on the beach, we usually wind up digging everything because ya just never know, and I'm sure that experienced P.I. users have developed an ability to discriminate by tone, like I'm able to do with my Sovereign, but I don't think I'd have the time or patience it would take to get to that level of proficiency with a P.I. That said, I've run my Sovereign in all-metal on the beach, but I'll switch to discrim mode to see if the target disappears and/or at least to be able to use the Sovereign's multiple tones to help me determine if the target is high or low conductivity, or somewhere in-between. I do have a TID meter for the Sovereign, just never got around to setting it up to use.
I haven't kept up with P.I.'s over the years, but the one's I recall didn't have discrimination capability like the Sovereign or Excalibur. I think there's a White's P.I. that had a few colors on the control box that would light up to give a basic target ID. With all the advancements in technology, maybe there's a P.I. these days that has discrimination capability, that would be great, I'm not sure if it's technically possible, but I just don't know enough about P.I.'s to say either way. If I was a lot younger, I'd probably try a P.I., as it would require digging every signal. But as I get older and older, I've become a lot more selective and want to at least have a rough idea of what I'll be digging, or at least to make a dig/no dig decision. If you've got youth, strong arms, don't mind digging every signal, and can handle frustration, give the P.I. a shot. But I think you'll find that today's SMF detectors are right there with the P.I.'s, or at least maybe within a couple/few inches, and the SMF's might have you digging deeper than you really feel like digging.
Nauti
Well-known member
I bought an xterra pro a while back but haven't used it much.........very impressed to be honest,digging small deep targets doesn't seem to be a problem for it.I will conduct proper rests eventually against the Sov but from the results I've had I don't think it would be far off and it's a lot lighter and full waterproof.
Be interesting to get your thoughts on the Elite.
Be interesting to get your thoughts on the Elite.
Sand Sifter
Member
I have a theory based on my work & business experience, but IMHO, I think the X-Terra Elite and Pro are the same detector. I also think they're both the same as the NOX 700 & 900. If you look at the specs for each, they're identical, except for a few features where one may offer more sensitivity or recovery speed. All those features are controlled by the detector's firmware, which is the software that controls & runs the processor. Minelab probably designed the NOX 900 first, since it has the most features, then by making a few programming changes in the firmware, they'd have the NOX 700. Then, but reducing some of the features even further, they'd have the X-Terra Elite, and then by turning off SMF and only allowing the use of 1 frequency, they'd have the X-Terra Pro. But I think the bones of each of these detectors is the same, the only difference being the programming of the processor, coils, and the X-Terra's come with metal shafts (which I like) and the NOX's come with the carbon fiber shafts.
OldBeechnut
Well-known member
One variation between the excalibur and the AQ PI. The Excalibur hits larger class rings deep specially if you listen for the faint changes in the threshold, where as the AQ PI hits them much easier and louder. On small gold rings with the AQ PI, it hammers the small gold rings deep, where as the excalibur does miss those.
The AQ PI does have discrimination but you really have to fine tune it to what your wanting to knock out and with discrimination comes a cut in the depth, I would say at least 6 inch loss.
The AQ PI does have discrimination but you really have to fine tune it to what your wanting to knock out and with discrimination comes a cut in the depth, I would say at least 6 inch loss.
Would like to see a pulse width adjustment added to the AQ so that the bigger pieces of gold can be lit up more.
Great videos by the way!