Have given up trying to find any coins in past hunted sites with the Exp. II, apparently there's nothing the Fishers left behind. Started hunting old home sites and have found my oldest coins (as long as there shallow). The only way I can keep the detector out of null is hunting in Iron Mask at -16. Am curious if any depth is possible while the detector is nulling?
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-16
- Thread starter Jim-IN
- Start date
Ace
Member
Yes, depth is possible, why shouldn't it? The problem with nulling is the recovery rate, for example, you go over nail and the nulling occurs, if a dime is next to it for example the recovery won't be fast enough so the Dime sin't picked up by the Explorer, this can be easily fixed by going into the Advanced settings and choosing FAST (this will make the recovery rate faster so you can pick up targets real close to each other), the FAST setting will decrease target ID accuracy a little bit, use this when on trashy places or where a lot of nulling occurs.
Jim there is a lot of misunderstanding about the detector having depth in null. We don't have depth when the detector is in null which is inherent in any null discrimination detector. Fisher uses silent threshold which may add to the confusion if we use both machines to the misunderstanding if we compare the two. When in null the machine must recover sufficiently to detect a target which the entire reason why recovery is so important.
What you can do is open up a few pixels at 31/31, upper left corner of the display in the nails area of the display, and by setting the audio gain down to about 3 or four get the nulls in heavy iron under control. This will stop the constant nulls that are often mistaken as being caused from iron minerals. By also adjusting the threshold tone to the lowest tone we establish the lowest tone for iron. We now have the audio modulated and iron sound pushed very low and in the background. Next go to ferrous sounds and you can work through iron with few problems.
What we have done with the above is restore the threshold so we stop all those nulls on iron. The iron tone will be a very low growl but since it is a low tone and coins give a high one we can decrease volume on our headphones so low tones are in the background. High tones will sound much louder due to the difference in pitch between low and high frequency sounds.
This gives up maximum depth and a very workable method in heavy iron where we kill depth by nulls or we are driven insane from all the hits on iron. This is a problem with conductive sounds and so many of the nails shaped targets have the same sound as silver or we hear a constant chatter from iron at IM-16.
Again there is a real misunderstanding about depth when in null and actually we have none or very little unless we catch at target with the null almost restored. This is where we could use more adjustments for recovery speed from null or even from a positive hit. This however would be a problem if set to fast because we would not get maximum depth on ultra deep targets.
I would not use conductive sounds in heavy iron as ferrous sounds does not give high tones for iron. I think this is very important to work in heavy iron. The above is the best setting I have found so far for heavy iron and still keep maximum depth.
Hope this helps and will be glad to help you with the iron problem. I do a lot of hunting at sites like that and in heavy trash.
What you can do is open up a few pixels at 31/31, upper left corner of the display in the nails area of the display, and by setting the audio gain down to about 3 or four get the nulls in heavy iron under control. This will stop the constant nulls that are often mistaken as being caused from iron minerals. By also adjusting the threshold tone to the lowest tone we establish the lowest tone for iron. We now have the audio modulated and iron sound pushed very low and in the background. Next go to ferrous sounds and you can work through iron with few problems.
What we have done with the above is restore the threshold so we stop all those nulls on iron. The iron tone will be a very low growl but since it is a low tone and coins give a high one we can decrease volume on our headphones so low tones are in the background. High tones will sound much louder due to the difference in pitch between low and high frequency sounds.
This gives up maximum depth and a very workable method in heavy iron where we kill depth by nulls or we are driven insane from all the hits on iron. This is a problem with conductive sounds and so many of the nails shaped targets have the same sound as silver or we hear a constant chatter from iron at IM-16.
Again there is a real misunderstanding about depth when in null and actually we have none or very little unless we catch at target with the null almost restored. This is where we could use more adjustments for recovery speed from null or even from a positive hit. This however would be a problem if set to fast because we would not get maximum depth on ultra deep targets.
I would not use conductive sounds in heavy iron as ferrous sounds does not give high tones for iron. I think this is very important to work in heavy iron. The above is the best setting I have found so far for heavy iron and still keep maximum depth.
Hope this helps and will be glad to help you with the iron problem. I do a lot of hunting at sites like that and in heavy trash.
Jim upstate NY
New member
Although it could very well give the impression of less depth based on whats causing the null, as thats whats causing you to lose targets in the null, the detector still sees just as deep but is over powered by rejected targets..
You gotta remember that you are just aware of the threshold machines null... a silent search machine also nulls out rejected targets.. you just donut hear it.. If you think about it a silent search machine at half disc wont go off on targets below that disc setting, it still sees them but they don't sound off... that is nulling out the target, simple as that you just aren't aware of it, and unless the machine has a very fast recovery rate or is being swept very slowly it may also miss targets near those disced out targets
All machines will have trouble finding things in heavy iron, or ground that is saturated with iron oxides.. Iron rusts away and even though there may not be any smaller pieces remaining, the oxides have leached into the soil and will still be rejected. Running -16 on the explorer or all metal on silent search machines will help you pick up on non ferrous targets in that null, but can drive you nuts in areas with lots of iron, and you still need to go slow to be able to hear those subtle tone changes.
Personally I like threshold. I want to hear when I get into ferrous targets, first off it tells me something was going on there, and second because it tells me to slow down. And at least with the explorers audio you can hear subtle tone differences in that iron, unlike a single tone machine where an iron crackle cant as easily be differentiated from a good target crackle it might give in that iron
Nails scattered around are really not a problem, even if you have a one or two under the coil at the same time.. but if you run into a spot thats just totally covered with nails and other iron leftovers and rust you aren't gonna see through it all, you might pick off a few things above it, but I have seen many areas that you can put a coin on top of the ground and not get a peep out of the detector.
Again its not the null itself, its simply the amount of iron in the ground. When there's that much iron even -16 isn't going to let you hear that target as the iron will be sounding off so much you may as well just get on your knees and start digging up everywhere, cause everythings gonna be blended together, and you will get the same type signals every where.
I have hunted many sites where there was so much iron, that after hunting an area close to a foundation very hard, I would dig up a small area in the most likely spots to have more stuff taking off a few inches of the top soil, and find more good targets.. But again its wasn't the null it was what was causing the null, and again all machines null out rejected targets even if they don't "null"
I hunt at -15 iron mask and fast recovery at almost all sites, first of all if there's iron I don't want to be any higher than that, and second of all if there's no iron it doesn't matter, as I wont be hearing it no matter where its set.. if there's lots of non ferrous trash I go slower, if there's lots of iron I go slower, simple as that. I prefer to know I am in it, and thats why I like threshold, because even if targets rejected I still know by a null I am in an area with something in the ground..
By the way if you get into high iron don't be afraid to lower the sensitivity, even as far down as 10 or less, it will allow you to pick off a few of the things above iron easier and also try and use a smaller coil than the stock.. The stock will do well, but if you have them, hunt it a few times afterwards with a smaller and smaller coil..
You gotta remember that you are just aware of the threshold machines null... a silent search machine also nulls out rejected targets.. you just donut hear it.. If you think about it a silent search machine at half disc wont go off on targets below that disc setting, it still sees them but they don't sound off... that is nulling out the target, simple as that you just aren't aware of it, and unless the machine has a very fast recovery rate or is being swept very slowly it may also miss targets near those disced out targets
All machines will have trouble finding things in heavy iron, or ground that is saturated with iron oxides.. Iron rusts away and even though there may not be any smaller pieces remaining, the oxides have leached into the soil and will still be rejected. Running -16 on the explorer or all metal on silent search machines will help you pick up on non ferrous targets in that null, but can drive you nuts in areas with lots of iron, and you still need to go slow to be able to hear those subtle tone changes.
Personally I like threshold. I want to hear when I get into ferrous targets, first off it tells me something was going on there, and second because it tells me to slow down. And at least with the explorers audio you can hear subtle tone differences in that iron, unlike a single tone machine where an iron crackle cant as easily be differentiated from a good target crackle it might give in that iron
Nails scattered around are really not a problem, even if you have a one or two under the coil at the same time.. but if you run into a spot thats just totally covered with nails and other iron leftovers and rust you aren't gonna see through it all, you might pick off a few things above it, but I have seen many areas that you can put a coin on top of the ground and not get a peep out of the detector.
Again its not the null itself, its simply the amount of iron in the ground. When there's that much iron even -16 isn't going to let you hear that target as the iron will be sounding off so much you may as well just get on your knees and start digging up everywhere, cause everythings gonna be blended together, and you will get the same type signals every where.
I have hunted many sites where there was so much iron, that after hunting an area close to a foundation very hard, I would dig up a small area in the most likely spots to have more stuff taking off a few inches of the top soil, and find more good targets.. But again its wasn't the null it was what was causing the null, and again all machines null out rejected targets even if they don't "null"
I hunt at -15 iron mask and fast recovery at almost all sites, first of all if there's iron I don't want to be any higher than that, and second of all if there's no iron it doesn't matter, as I wont be hearing it no matter where its set.. if there's lots of non ferrous trash I go slower, if there's lots of iron I go slower, simple as that. I prefer to know I am in it, and thats why I like threshold, because even if targets rejected I still know by a null I am in an area with something in the ground..
By the way if you get into high iron don't be afraid to lower the sensitivity, even as far down as 10 or less, it will allow you to pick off a few of the things above iron easier and also try and use a smaller coil than the stock.. The stock will do well, but if you have them, hunt it a few times afterwards with a smaller and smaller coil..
No detector will detect while in null. That is why we have problems with co-located targets and the entire idea behind all metal detecting at IM-16. If we could detect while in null then it would make no difference other than what we hear. Null is not the same as silent operation!
Put a coin next to iron and see if you can detect the coin if the threshold is in null. If we could then all the problems with co-located targets, sweep speed, recovery would go away. What you are saying is we both have and not have sound at the same point in time and we cannot. It is one or the other and that is no sound for rejection or sound to indicate a detected hit.
Threshold null has nothing to do with the transmitter but is a function of the receiver. We cannot receive a hit unless the receiver circuits recover from a null.
Put a coin next to iron and see if you can detect the coin if the threshold is in null. If we could then all the problems with co-located targets, sweep speed, recovery would go away. What you are saying is we both have and not have sound at the same point in time and we cannot. It is one or the other and that is no sound for rejection or sound to indicate a detected hit.
Threshold null has nothing to do with the transmitter but is a function of the receiver. We cannot receive a hit unless the receiver circuits recover from a null.
I wanted to edit my prior post as it sounds abrupt and I did not mean for that but I see it has already been read so will do another post on the topic.
Null does not cause the pulse of energy to go into the soil to any less depth. In that sense there is no loss of depth based on the threshold. The electromagnetic energy can be distorted but will basically be constant so is the depth.
Depth as we understand it is picking signals out of the composite signals in the receiver circuits. Just as we can adjust the threshold up or down the audio is driven into null to indicate a rejected target. Unfortunately, when driven into null for ANY reason we cannot select signals to be amplified as good hits.
It takes time for the receiver circuits to be turned ON and OFF or at least driven to a silent state and then to return to the set point of the threshold. That is recovery time or the time we need for the circuits to make the transitions. That recovery time can be adjusted to be faster or slower and with the Explorer by using Fast.
We can place coins and iron in different co-located positions to the coil and test for depth. If the detector is in null FOR ANY REASON we cannot detect the deeper targets. If however we lower the coil then we find that we can detect the coin even if the iron and coin are still co-located in the same places. We will also find that by adjusting the sweep speed we can hit the the coin as the null is on the recovery. If we speed up the recovery of the threshold then we can detect the coin in some instances.
That is only a few situations but there are other important considerations. The null and detection depth will depend on the size of the targets and depth relationship of co-located targets. A moderately sized piece of iron near the surface will essentially kill all depth while the threshold is in null. Iron at a level below a good target is not as effective in driving the threshold into deep null as iron closer to the coil than a good target.
We see a similar situation if we adjust the threshold to 0 and try to detect an ultra deep target that is clearly heard with a threshold at about 8 or so. The threshold can be hard nulled or very soft in null as we can see. So, how do we get past this problem with null discrimination?
We have all metal detecting or we can open the screen to accept targets that hit at the upper left corner of the screen at about 31/31. The threshold will be fairly constants with only very fast nulls on alloys for the most part. A lot of adjustments are on detectors to try and compensate for the loss of depth caused by null discrimination.
Again, I did not intend to sound so abrupt with my prior post but was in a hurry to get do some "honey does" for getting ready for Thanksgiving.
Null does not cause the pulse of energy to go into the soil to any less depth. In that sense there is no loss of depth based on the threshold. The electromagnetic energy can be distorted but will basically be constant so is the depth.
Depth as we understand it is picking signals out of the composite signals in the receiver circuits. Just as we can adjust the threshold up or down the audio is driven into null to indicate a rejected target. Unfortunately, when driven into null for ANY reason we cannot select signals to be amplified as good hits.
It takes time for the receiver circuits to be turned ON and OFF or at least driven to a silent state and then to return to the set point of the threshold. That is recovery time or the time we need for the circuits to make the transitions. That recovery time can be adjusted to be faster or slower and with the Explorer by using Fast.
We can place coins and iron in different co-located positions to the coil and test for depth. If the detector is in null FOR ANY REASON we cannot detect the deeper targets. If however we lower the coil then we find that we can detect the coin even if the iron and coin are still co-located in the same places. We will also find that by adjusting the sweep speed we can hit the the coin as the null is on the recovery. If we speed up the recovery of the threshold then we can detect the coin in some instances.
That is only a few situations but there are other important considerations. The null and detection depth will depend on the size of the targets and depth relationship of co-located targets. A moderately sized piece of iron near the surface will essentially kill all depth while the threshold is in null. Iron at a level below a good target is not as effective in driving the threshold into deep null as iron closer to the coil than a good target.
We see a similar situation if we adjust the threshold to 0 and try to detect an ultra deep target that is clearly heard with a threshold at about 8 or so. The threshold can be hard nulled or very soft in null as we can see. So, how do we get past this problem with null discrimination?
We have all metal detecting or we can open the screen to accept targets that hit at the upper left corner of the screen at about 31/31. The threshold will be fairly constants with only very fast nulls on alloys for the most part. A lot of adjustments are on detectors to try and compensate for the loss of depth caused by null discrimination.
Again, I did not intend to sound so abrupt with my prior post but was in a hurry to get do some "honey does" for getting ready for Thanksgiving.
GraveDiggerMax-VaBch-Va
New member
have posted this hot info. long ago...........i find it very interesting.
thanks
thanks
Jim upstate NY
New member
But at my cellar hole sites I am in a full null almost every second the coils over the ground, and after the target is out of the ground theres still a null over the spot I dug the target.. Somehow I manage to find stuff.... must be I got a magic explorer.. I have seen spots that a coin cant be heard on top of the ground, but its the amount of iron thats under it thats causing it, even in -16 you cant get a high tone from the coin.. I also have spots my explorer nulls pretty much constant, and there is no iron there to speak of, yet I still get targets..
Believe me I have hunted hunt sites that have so much iron that if your in -16 the explorer sounds like its over one big target, for example an old steam ship dock thats rotted away thats within 20 feet of the train tracks, and a reinforced concrete slab that crumbled away loaded with coke and rusted bolts, so much iron the ground is red from rust.. yet I have found 100's of coins there.. Some I eyeballed on top of the ground the detectors, yes even silent search machines would not pick up but the majority were detected with my explorer and even sovereign which had no adjustable iron mask, yet I had no more threshold than I did where I couldnt hear them
So your telling me that when the detctor is in a null it shuts down the recieve circuitry completely? well you keep on thinking that and continue to spend your time posting the technical info instead of being out hunting your nulled out sites, leave them for someone that knows how to hunt a null to find. Happy Thanksgiving, I dont know where you get your info, but as good as you must be I would expect a pic of a find once in a while, instead of mumbo jumbo
Believe me I have hunted hunt sites that have so much iron that if your in -16 the explorer sounds like its over one big target, for example an old steam ship dock thats rotted away thats within 20 feet of the train tracks, and a reinforced concrete slab that crumbled away loaded with coke and rusted bolts, so much iron the ground is red from rust.. yet I have found 100's of coins there.. Some I eyeballed on top of the ground the detectors, yes even silent search machines would not pick up but the majority were detected with my explorer and even sovereign which had no adjustable iron mask, yet I had no more threshold than I did where I couldnt hear them
So your telling me that when the detctor is in a null it shuts down the recieve circuitry completely? well you keep on thinking that and continue to spend your time posting the technical info instead of being out hunting your nulled out sites, leave them for someone that knows how to hunt a null to find. Happy Thanksgiving, I dont know where you get your info, but as good as you must be I would expect a pic of a find once in a while, instead of mumbo jumbo
If it is in the upper left corner when nails are rejected. I have does extensive test and almost all iron with hit right in that corner and down the very left side of the screen. We can open a few pixels or many pixels and control how much iron we hit. Screws will high jut to the right at in the 30/31 area.
However a U in the non ferrous areas is interesting. I have a class ring that indicates 8/22 and a pulltab that indicates 8/22. I can Learn the ring and as you know will detect the pulltab. However, I can clip on the rejection black area and low and behold can reject the pulltab and still detect the ring. I have tried this with other pest targets and can clip the rejection black area in edit and will hear a difference. All I need is to hear something different between the pulltab and ring. What I have found is a cross-hair location or digital reading is actually a pyramid cluster of reading. The more shallow the target the more shallow the pyramid so there are fewer reading the the reading cover a more narrow range. Depending on height of the coil and the target a pyramid for a ring is often different from the one for a pulltab even if the predominant reading is the same digital number combination or cross-hair location. Edit will allow us to clip part of the pyramid out so the my ring that reads 8/22 is accepted and the pulltab that reads 8/22 is hit but it has a broken sound. I think this is due to the symmetry of a ring and the shape of a pulltab. Very often the resultant shape on the screen for a rejected pulltab and accepted ring is a U shape.
Anyhow there are tow different U shapes. I will attache an illustration of a base program I use. I then use Learn and Edit to tailor this to be site specific.
However a U in the non ferrous areas is interesting. I have a class ring that indicates 8/22 and a pulltab that indicates 8/22. I can Learn the ring and as you know will detect the pulltab. However, I can clip on the rejection black area and low and behold can reject the pulltab and still detect the ring. I have tried this with other pest targets and can clip the rejection black area in edit and will hear a difference. All I need is to hear something different between the pulltab and ring. What I have found is a cross-hair location or digital reading is actually a pyramid cluster of reading. The more shallow the target the more shallow the pyramid so there are fewer reading the the reading cover a more narrow range. Depending on height of the coil and the target a pyramid for a ring is often different from the one for a pulltab even if the predominant reading is the same digital number combination or cross-hair location. Edit will allow us to clip part of the pyramid out so the my ring that reads 8/22 is accepted and the pulltab that reads 8/22 is hit but it has a broken sound. I think this is due to the symmetry of a ring and the shape of a pulltab. Very often the resultant shape on the screen for a rejected pulltab and accepted ring is a U shape.
Anyhow there are tow different U shapes. I will attache an illustration of a base program I use. I then use Learn and Edit to tailor this to be site specific.
Jim, I find your comments very well thought out. My interest in the forums is to discuss techniques and the technical side of the Explorer. I really am not trying to be right but rather to understand. I want to learn and better understand the detector so I can be more effective in using it. In doing that I state what I understand and adjust my thinking based on what other user have experienced or know technically.
I have read many of your post and have gained much from them. I had no intentions of offending by disagreeing in this area. I am very open to your comments and those of others.
I have read many of your post and have gained much from them. I had no intentions of offending by disagreeing in this area. I am very open to your comments and those of others.
Charles (Upstate NY)
Well-known member
Cody I used to come onto this forum after observing something of interest in the field while using the Explorer and say okay folks 1 + 1 = 2, bank on it. Then a week, month, year later I would discover that 1 + 1 did not always equal 2. Which for a software engineer is quite annoying I might add.
Nothing is 100% when it comes to rules of thumb for the Explorer, that's what you can bank on. I think this is because of the nearly infinite variables that come into play in the field. Soil, moisture, coil size, machine settings, nearby iron and trash, depths of same, locations of same, multiple iron targets, directions the nails point, sound soil or disturbed soil, and so on and so forth. With that in mind lets discuss some of your thoughts below...
> Just as we can adjust the threshold up or down the
> audio is driven into null to indicate a rejected
> target. Unfortunately, when driven into null for
> ANY reason we cannot select signals to be
> amplified as good hits.
I'd say false. I think perhaps the null on an Explorer may be different from other machines you are used to. While in a null the Explorer is still sampling, still trying to find an accepted target and give you a tone. To me a null is just another tone. I tell the machine hey shut up already with the trash tones and it plays a silent tone instead.
So why is hunting in IM -16 effective? I think its rather simple. If I have a nail and a coin say 3 inches apart in IM -16, as I sweep I'm going to hear the nail, then the coin, but also there is a transition between the two where I hear both the nail and the coin tones mixed together like playing a cord on a piano. Sometimes if the targets are really close together the Explorer will merge them into a single medium tone.
But when I discriminate out the nail that can eliminate these transition tones. The Explorer can play a low iron tone and a high coin tone at the same time in IM -16 but it can't very well play a silent null tone and a high coin tone at the same time right. Its either going to be silent or not and during the transition between iron and coin it seems to favor the null tone.
BUT...like I said at the start, nothing is 100%.
Sometimes IM -16 works against you. I have found targets that sounded okay in IM -10 vanish when I switched to IM -16 which logically sounds crazy because you are in all metal mode but nevertheless there it is an actual example of this happening in the field.
And this happens not jus with iron, case in point. I dug a barber half once. I had the entire screen open expect for rusty crown caps, I had those discriminated out. I get this screaming silver like signal but it was too low on the screen for a half dollar ID wise. I half suspected a rusty crown cap was falsing on me which they will do but this sounded too good for a crown cap. I switched to IM -16 allowing in the crowncaps and whammo the target pegged much lower right in the rusty crowncap area. Ah-ha I think, you rat bastard you are trying to trick me. But...damn that sounded too good. I dug a plug, out popped a rusty crowncap about 5 inches down sitting nice and flat dead center of the hole. But I stuck my X1 probe in the hole and whoa it was screaming silver. About 8 inches down out popped a nice barber half.
So with the crowncap discriminated out it should have nulled yet I got a pretty good signal on the half. Odder still is that in IM -16 the ID was a solid crowncap and I would have kept walking. So sometimes, when the Explorer has to make a decision when it sees both a trash target and a coin, it seems that if you have the trash target discriminated out, it will give more weight to the coin target with respects to ID location on the screen. But if you allow the trash target in, being the stronger signal it gives more weight to that and thus ID's the target on the screen as trash. This would explain why with iron discriminated out I had a decent coin signal yet when I allowed the iron in via IM -16 it ID'd rock solid iron with no hint of the coin.
The problem is of course that neither method is 100%. Sometimes discriminating out iron or a trash target helps you and sometimes it hurts you so to hunt a site well, you have to hunt it twice, using both methods.
Nothing is 100% when it comes to rules of thumb for the Explorer, that's what you can bank on. I think this is because of the nearly infinite variables that come into play in the field. Soil, moisture, coil size, machine settings, nearby iron and trash, depths of same, locations of same, multiple iron targets, directions the nails point, sound soil or disturbed soil, and so on and so forth. With that in mind lets discuss some of your thoughts below...
> Just as we can adjust the threshold up or down the
> audio is driven into null to indicate a rejected
> target. Unfortunately, when driven into null for
> ANY reason we cannot select signals to be
> amplified as good hits.
I'd say false. I think perhaps the null on an Explorer may be different from other machines you are used to. While in a null the Explorer is still sampling, still trying to find an accepted target and give you a tone. To me a null is just another tone. I tell the machine hey shut up already with the trash tones and it plays a silent tone instead.
So why is hunting in IM -16 effective? I think its rather simple. If I have a nail and a coin say 3 inches apart in IM -16, as I sweep I'm going to hear the nail, then the coin, but also there is a transition between the two where I hear both the nail and the coin tones mixed together like playing a cord on a piano. Sometimes if the targets are really close together the Explorer will merge them into a single medium tone.
But when I discriminate out the nail that can eliminate these transition tones. The Explorer can play a low iron tone and a high coin tone at the same time in IM -16 but it can't very well play a silent null tone and a high coin tone at the same time right. Its either going to be silent or not and during the transition between iron and coin it seems to favor the null tone.
BUT...like I said at the start, nothing is 100%.
Sometimes IM -16 works against you. I have found targets that sounded okay in IM -10 vanish when I switched to IM -16 which logically sounds crazy because you are in all metal mode but nevertheless there it is an actual example of this happening in the field.
And this happens not jus with iron, case in point. I dug a barber half once. I had the entire screen open expect for rusty crown caps, I had those discriminated out. I get this screaming silver like signal but it was too low on the screen for a half dollar ID wise. I half suspected a rusty crown cap was falsing on me which they will do but this sounded too good for a crown cap. I switched to IM -16 allowing in the crowncaps and whammo the target pegged much lower right in the rusty crowncap area. Ah-ha I think, you rat bastard you are trying to trick me. But...damn that sounded too good. I dug a plug, out popped a rusty crowncap about 5 inches down sitting nice and flat dead center of the hole. But I stuck my X1 probe in the hole and whoa it was screaming silver. About 8 inches down out popped a nice barber half.
So with the crowncap discriminated out it should have nulled yet I got a pretty good signal on the half. Odder still is that in IM -16 the ID was a solid crowncap and I would have kept walking. So sometimes, when the Explorer has to make a decision when it sees both a trash target and a coin, it seems that if you have the trash target discriminated out, it will give more weight to the coin target with respects to ID location on the screen. But if you allow the trash target in, being the stronger signal it gives more weight to that and thus ID's the target on the screen as trash. This would explain why with iron discriminated out I had a decent coin signal yet when I allowed the iron in via IM -16 it ID'd rock solid iron with no hint of the coin.
The problem is of course that neither method is 100%. Sometimes discriminating out iron or a trash target helps you and sometimes it hurts you so to hunt a site well, you have to hunt it twice, using both methods.
GraveDiggerMax-VaBch-Va
New member
n/t
After meeting with you I went out and tried moving at a snails pace and found another large cent but it was only 2 inches also. Tried my test bed and unless I scrubed the ground could hardly get a signal with the 10 inch loop. As soon as weather permits will try again with the 8 inch to see if it makes a differance.
Larry--IndianaHVAC
New member
Jim, Where are you located in Indiana? If its not too far from me I would be glad to make the trip and help you learn this machine better. Feel free to email me at labeli@verizon.net
HH
Larry
HH
Larry
Charles (Upstate NY)
Well-known member
I'm not trying to provoke a debate here Cody but Jim spent the time to answer this person's question only to have you post a reply just below him that suggests he's wrong.
Now that can be annoying but I know you meant nothing personal by this and you said as much so no big deal.
That said your posts on the Explorer seem to be theoretical thinking with little actual field experience with this particular machine to support your findings.
Jim on the other hand has considerable time in the field with this machine, actual real world observations and the coins to support his findings.
I tried to provide you with some additional field observations but you disagree with my findings also. Cody you have some technical expertise but I have dug up 3,000 plus old coins with this machine, that's a lot of field data to ignore wouldn't you agree?
46 years prior experience with other detectors doesn't really qualify. No more than my bumper to bumper knowledge of my 1975 Mustang qualifies me as an authority on my 2005 F150.
That's why I say both respectfully and sincerely, take your Explorer out in the field and dig at least a few hundred deep targets then report back. A thousand would be better. I thought I knew something at 500 coins. I was sure I was an expert at 1,000 coins. At 2,000 coins I had tossed out half of my prior thinking.
Now that can be annoying but I know you meant nothing personal by this and you said as much so no big deal.
That said your posts on the Explorer seem to be theoretical thinking with little actual field experience with this particular machine to support your findings.
Jim on the other hand has considerable time in the field with this machine, actual real world observations and the coins to support his findings.
I tried to provide you with some additional field observations but you disagree with my findings also. Cody you have some technical expertise but I have dug up 3,000 plus old coins with this machine, that's a lot of field data to ignore wouldn't you agree?
46 years prior experience with other detectors doesn't really qualify. No more than my bumper to bumper knowledge of my 1975 Mustang qualifies me as an authority on my 2005 F150.
That's why I say both respectfully and sincerely, take your Explorer out in the field and dig at least a few hundred deep targets then report back. A thousand would be better. I thought I knew something at 500 coins. I was sure I was an expert at 1,000 coins. At 2,000 coins I had tossed out half of my prior thinking.
But my detector acts the same way in iron.The tone id will usualy remain the same,but the VDI will drop.I found a nickel last week surrounded by iron.The tone was the same,but VDI was 10 instead of 18.Detector just nulled after I scanned the hole once the nickel was removed.How have you been anyways.Haven't seen you posting many finds this year.Found a 1891 dime at that fairground the other day.Grass hasn't been cut all year on it however.One of my friends bought the place.I told him to plow it good in the Spring.Hope all is well.Dave
Charles (Upstate NY)
Well-known member
Remember that day we hit the old school site in the woods and that farm house? You found a barber quarter that day if I remember correctly you said it was sitting on top of a big piece of iron. Same deal.
You better keep the Explorers away from that fairground site or it will be picked clean in short order. I can make a big sign for you if you want, "No Minelabs Allowed" and you can post the property.
You better keep the Explorers away from that fairground site or it will be picked clean in short order. I can make a big sign for you if you want, "No Minelabs Allowed" and you can post the property.