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17" coil makes old spot like new. Unbelievable:yikes::super:
- Thread starter DrBobinMO
- Start date
spanish silver
New member
To be honest, I heard the same thing when people bought the ctx how it made sites come alive again, I hit places hard with my etrac and cleaned them out, I went back over them with my ctx and pulled one coin out of one of my sites, thats a far cry from 100's of coins people are talking about getting at sites they hunted with the etrac, same goes for coils, I will take the tasters choice challange with anyone that I can hit the same depth with my 11 inch coil, as the old saying goes " it's not the gun it's the gunner"
DaugBiscuit
New member
I have never seen a coil or detector that will make an old spot like new again, not for me anyway. But if it would, I'd be buying a new one every week. Anyway, let's see the pictures and read your story and let us dream.
Happy Thanksgiving & HH,
Don.....
Happy Thanksgiving & HH,
Don.....
I have done a lot of in ground depth testing with the E-Trac and CTX3030. The 13x17 is at least 2" deeper on dimes & pennies over the 11" coils in both MO and KS soils I have been detecting in.The sites it will make new are the ones with many coins past the 9" depth mark in my experience.
I am the one who suggested DrBob "needed" the 13x17 and he was a bit doubtful about it as well until we hit a totally hammered public site that we knew had some very deep coins this past Tuesday.
Not wanting to speak for Dr.Bob but must say that in the last several hunts with both the E-Trac and then the CTX with the stock 11" coils at this site produced only one or two coins per several hours each hunt .With the 17" coils we each dug a hand full of very deep targets in a little over 4 hours with silver,Indians and Wheats in the mix along with a 11" + deep .50 cent copper store token about the diameter of a nickle but thinner than a dime .
Not interested in my machine is deeper/better than your machine type challenges just wanting to share our personal results that we are both extremely pleased with.Neither of us has anything to gain one way or the other as we have no affiliation with Minelab or any other brand. We just love the challenge of finding old coins at "hunted out" public sites.
PS. Sorry about hijacking your post Dr.Bob
I am the one who suggested DrBob "needed" the 13x17 and he was a bit doubtful about it as well until we hit a totally hammered public site that we knew had some very deep coins this past Tuesday.
Not wanting to speak for Dr.Bob but must say that in the last several hunts with both the E-Trac and then the CTX with the stock 11" coils at this site produced only one or two coins per several hours each hunt .With the 17" coils we each dug a hand full of very deep targets in a little over 4 hours with silver,Indians and Wheats in the mix along with a 11" + deep .50 cent copper store token about the diameter of a nickle but thinner than a dime .
Not interested in my machine is deeper/better than your machine type challenges just wanting to share our personal results that we are both extremely pleased with.Neither of us has anything to gain one way or the other as we have no affiliation with Minelab or any other brand. We just love the challenge of finding old coins at "hunted out" public sites.
PS. Sorry about hijacking your post Dr.Bob
I always have worries with a huge coil. I worry about the ability to pinpoint. The last thing I want to do is dig huge holes. Does the large coil pinpoint well? The second is masking. I realize that the CTX has some settings like fast and high trash. I would like to know what settings were used to take advantage during the hunt.
Pinpoint has been spot-on!
I have not yet determined best setting and would like to know others preferences.
I will say that using GoneHuntings settings, I am finding artifacts in holes with multiple corroded nails--that is due to the CTX , independent of the coil, something I had never been able to do with my older Minelab.
I had used a large coil on my older machine, and was always concerned that ferrous objects were nulling out and masking targets, and the bigger the coil, the bigger the volume of soil being sampled, and the bigger the chance for iron nulling.
It's much better now.
I have not yet determined best setting and would like to know others preferences.
I will say that using GoneHuntings settings, I am finding artifacts in holes with multiple corroded nails--that is due to the CTX , independent of the coil, something I had never been able to do with my older Minelab.
I had used a large coil on my older machine, and was always concerned that ferrous objects were nulling out and masking targets, and the bigger the coil, the bigger the volume of soil being sampled, and the bigger the chance for iron nulling.
It's much better now.
spanish silver said:To be honest, I heard the same thing when people bought the ctx how it made sites come alive again, I hit places hard with my etrac and cleaned them out, I went back over them with my ctx and pulled one coin out of one of my sites, thats a far cry from 100's of coins people are talking about getting at sites they hunted with the etrac, same goes for coils, I will take the tasters choice challange with anyone that I can hit the same depth with my 11 inch coil, as the old saying goes " it's not the gun it's the gunner"
If the gun you use is a .22, you won't be as effective as you would using a .50 Cal, so that its the gunner, not the gun belief isn't always true. The CTX crushes the ETRAC in iron infested spots. I used both in the same tiny area where a building once stood. I pounded it with the ETRAC to the point it was beat. Went back with the CTX and found 13 silver dimes, 5 Barbers, 1 Washington, and 1 Large Cent. There's no comparing an ETRAC to a CTX in trashy environments because I have months of experience on the same patch of dirt with both. Where the advantage is, is the fact that the ETRAC nulls a lot more over coins where iron is right next to it. You're not finding that 11" dime resting on a nail with an ETRAC like you will with a CTX. I found one in an old plug that I had cut when I used the ETRAC and found a shallower signal. There was a deeper dime 3" below that with a rusty nail that the ETRAC never heard, so my experience trumps alot of this speculation whether or not its a better machine, and that its the operator and not the device. Not so. I love the ETRAC, but the CTX is doing a lot better. A LOT better.
Keep in mind it is only 2" wider than the stock coil and with the x or cross pinpoint method it is dead on and quite easy to get target within small plug.The only time this fails is with coins on edge as with all coils.The 13x17 is exceptional on hitting on edge coins at extreme depths for me.I have used it quite a bit in moderate trash with good results for it's size as it has a very,very tight DD center field .That being said I find it most advantageous at those old not so trashy sites with very deep targets.
The site Dr.Bob was referring to had various amounts of fill scattered over it many years ago and thus the older coins were extremely deep but not much shallow modern trash as most low conductors along with 9" and less coins having been dug over the years by vast numbers of detectorists.As this being the case we hunted mostly in stock coins mode, 50 conductive tones with both fast & deep off.
The big coil is pricey and unless you have these types of sites or large open areas where you need to cover a lot of ground it may not be for you.I am thinking it would be an absolute beast for dry sand beach detecting as well.Lots of coverage and the CTX has proven to be more sensitive to smaller targets compared to the E-Trac which I can never praise enough on it's own considering the over 400 silver coins and close to 500 Indians it gave me
.
In my test garden I have fount the 13x17 will hit/ID 10" dime targets as well as the stock coil at max manual sensitivity ( 30 ) while running larger coil at only 18 manual with all other setting being the same.
The site Dr.Bob was referring to had various amounts of fill scattered over it many years ago and thus the older coins were extremely deep but not much shallow modern trash as most low conductors along with 9" and less coins having been dug over the years by vast numbers of detectorists.As this being the case we hunted mostly in stock coins mode, 50 conductive tones with both fast & deep off.
The big coil is pricey and unless you have these types of sites or large open areas where you need to cover a lot of ground it may not be for you.I am thinking it would be an absolute beast for dry sand beach detecting as well.Lots of coverage and the CTX has proven to be more sensitive to smaller targets compared to the E-Trac which I can never praise enough on it's own considering the over 400 silver coins and close to 500 Indians it gave me
.In my test garden I have fount the 13x17 will hit/ID 10" dime targets as well as the stock coil at max manual sensitivity ( 30 ) while running larger coil at only 18 manual with all other setting being the same.
spanish silver, this is what I've heard so far too, from people here who took the plunge with the 3030, to see if it would find more in the worked-out parks for silver. They concluded that it's not really getting any more depth, than their Exp. II's or Etracs, etc...
And as far as the 17" coil "making a place come alive again", well .... DOH ! So too will a WOT or 17" coil on the Exp. II or Etrac make a place "come alive again" too. It's no secret that putting ANY larger coil, on ANY machine will get more depth. But as we all know, there's inherent drawbacks to larger coils:
1) There comes a point where you no longer get coin-sized targets deeper. You only get bigger objects deeper. This "point of diminishing returns" is different on each detector. On some machines (like the Sov, and perhaps this 3030, for all I know), WILL get coins deeper, when you exceed the stock 10.5" coil. But on the Exp. II, it only seems to increase coverage, not depth, on coin-sized targets.
2) You become more prone to masking, when you get larger coils.
3) detecting and pinpointing become "fishy" and warbly pains in the @ass when you move to larger coils.
And as far as the 17" coil "making a place come alive again", well .... DOH ! So too will a WOT or 17" coil on the Exp. II or Etrac make a place "come alive again" too. It's no secret that putting ANY larger coil, on ANY machine will get more depth. But as we all know, there's inherent drawbacks to larger coils:
1) There comes a point where you no longer get coin-sized targets deeper. You only get bigger objects deeper. This "point of diminishing returns" is different on each detector. On some machines (like the Sov, and perhaps this 3030, for all I know), WILL get coins deeper, when you exceed the stock 10.5" coil. But on the Exp. II, it only seems to increase coverage, not depth, on coin-sized targets.
2) You become more prone to masking, when you get larger coils.
3) detecting and pinpointing become "fishy" and warbly pains in the @ass when you move to larger coils.
The results we got are quite site specific as explained in detail. All the doubters and naysayers are more than welcome to post their actual in field results but opinions do not carry much weight where the coil meets the soil 
If your soil is highly minerlized and or full of trash the results will be much different and the 6" coil would be the better choice.
Tom_in_CA, All your points are valid but the CTX is not an Explorer or E-Trac and as good as they are the CTX just works better with the larger "factory made" coil on coin size targets than they ever did for me with large after market coils.I was a big fan of the WOT on the Explorer II but not in the same ball park as the CTX with 13x17. I have also noticed the CTX is more sensitive/deeper on smaller than dime size targets with the large coil than the E-Trac/Explorers were with stock coils.I do not know why but am happy with the results.Those tiny little harness rivet washers, .22 short brass and .22 bullets hit hard for such a large coil for instance.Minelab has done something different/better with their smart coil technology it appears to me.
PS The bulk of this post is not directed at you Tom_in_CA or any one else in particular and not meant as any type of personal attack.
If your soil is highly minerlized and or full of trash the results will be much different and the 6" coil would be the better choice. Tom_in_CA, All your points are valid but the CTX is not an Explorer or E-Trac and as good as they are the CTX just works better with the larger "factory made" coil on coin size targets than they ever did for me with large after market coils.I was a big fan of the WOT on the Explorer II but not in the same ball park as the CTX with 13x17. I have also noticed the CTX is more sensitive/deeper on smaller than dime size targets with the large coil than the E-Trac/Explorers were with stock coils.I do not know why but am happy with the results.Those tiny little harness rivet washers, .22 short brass and .22 bullets hit hard for such a large coil for instance.Minelab has done something different/better with their smart coil technology it appears to me.
PS The bulk of this post is not directed at you Tom_in_CA or any one else in particular and not meant as any type of personal attack.
Ray, your observations are en-lightening, that you aknowledge that ....... yes .... any machine has different characteristics with larger coils. And doesn't necessarily mean the machine is "deeper" or better. Because a similar machine may ALSO have those SAME improvements, when and if IT goes to the same diameter larger coil.
However, with that said, you will notice that I acknowledged that there are certain combinations of machines with larger coils that do, indeed, seem to "push" the envelope on the "rule of diminishing returns" that I spoke of. That rule being, that there comes a point when you no longer get coin-sized targets deeper. All you do is get more coverage, and larger-targets deeper, but not coin sized targets deeper (with the inherent drawbacks of that, which I pointed out). The usual point of dimishing returns, for that, is an 8" to 10" coil size (hence those are usually the stock coil sized on most machines, because of this).
However, yes, some machines do seem capable of moving up to coil-sized beyond their stock size, and getting even deeper on coins as small as dimes. For example, the Sovereign does indeed get deeper with the WOT, on coins, than their stock 10.5" coil. A friend of mine on the beach has gotten coins (like corroded zincs, for instance), at well over a foot while maintaining good tone ID to "make the call" before digging. If I put a WOT on my explorer, I can not replicate this. Same for the Whites XLT's, Spectrums, 6000's, etc... They too got coin-targets no deeper when moving to larger coils.
If I'm wrong, and the 3030 is one such exception, where you can push that law of diminishing returns, to continue to get coins deeper, EVEN up to the 17" coil, that is good news. It would be an arena that the Explorer and Etrac don't seem to do.
So do this for us please: What is the depth on a dime in an air test with your 3030, using the stock 10.5" coil? And now what is the depth on that same dime, with the same settings, when you switch to the 17" coil? I'm curious to know.
However, with that said, you will notice that I acknowledged that there are certain combinations of machines with larger coils that do, indeed, seem to "push" the envelope on the "rule of diminishing returns" that I spoke of. That rule being, that there comes a point when you no longer get coin-sized targets deeper. All you do is get more coverage, and larger-targets deeper, but not coin sized targets deeper (with the inherent drawbacks of that, which I pointed out). The usual point of dimishing returns, for that, is an 8" to 10" coil size (hence those are usually the stock coil sized on most machines, because of this).
However, yes, some machines do seem capable of moving up to coil-sized beyond their stock size, and getting even deeper on coins as small as dimes. For example, the Sovereign does indeed get deeper with the WOT, on coins, than their stock 10.5" coil. A friend of mine on the beach has gotten coins (like corroded zincs, for instance), at well over a foot while maintaining good tone ID to "make the call" before digging. If I put a WOT on my explorer, I can not replicate this. Same for the Whites XLT's, Spectrums, 6000's, etc... They too got coin-targets no deeper when moving to larger coils.
If I'm wrong, and the 3030 is one such exception, where you can push that law of diminishing returns, to continue to get coins deeper, EVEN up to the 17" coil, that is good news. It would be an arena that the Explorer and Etrac don't seem to do.
So do this for us please: What is the depth on a dime in an air test with your 3030, using the stock 10.5" coil? And now what is the depth on that same dime, with the same settings, when you switch to the 17" coil? I'm curious to know.
Not sure why I had never done so before other than I have been using my in ground test dime and native targets for most testing.
CTX3030 with open screen with tones set up in ferrous coin so silver and nickles hit with a high tone maxed out sensitivity of 30. Deep off and fast on..1937 Mercury dime with little wear for test target.Wooden yard stick on shaft to measure with.
Stock coil IDed and sounded good high tone at 13" with fair sounding high tone at 13-1/2" with jumping ID numbers with brisk sweep speed.
13 x 17 coil IDed and sounded very good high tone at 15-1/2" and still sounded good high tone at 16" with jumping ID numbers with brisk sweep speeds.
Depth was less with a very slow sweep speeds but I sweep my CTX fairly fast when hunting unless heavy trash in which case I switch to smaller coil as max depth is no longer my goal
Would be curious to hear results from other CTX owners. Will try to get a video of air test in a few days.
CTX3030 with open screen with tones set up in ferrous coin so silver and nickles hit with a high tone maxed out sensitivity of 30. Deep off and fast on..1937 Mercury dime with little wear for test target.Wooden yard stick on shaft to measure with.
Stock coil IDed and sounded good high tone at 13" with fair sounding high tone at 13-1/2" with jumping ID numbers with brisk sweep speed.
13 x 17 coil IDed and sounded very good high tone at 15-1/2" and still sounded good high tone at 16" with jumping ID numbers with brisk sweep speeds.
Depth was less with a very slow sweep speeds but I sweep my CTX fairly fast when hunting unless heavy trash in which case I switch to smaller coil as max depth is no longer my goal
Would be curious to hear results from other CTX owners. Will try to get a video of air test in a few days.
DaugBiscuit
New member
Ray-Mo. said:
Ray, good test, I am almost persuaded to get my a 17" coil. But, am I understanding you correctly that your depth was less when you slowed your swing? If that is what you are saying, why would that be? Prior to my CTX I was swinging the SE Pro and got in a habit of swinging slow. If I understand you correctly, I could be missing some deeper targets and I need to speed it up a bit. Do I understand you correctly?
Another question, why do you run deep off? It seems with deep on you would be able to get some extra depth.
Good test, thanks.
Don.....
silverchef
New member
@daugbiscuit- I noticed sometimes when I swing really slow I might get a high tone chopped up with some iron. Then when I speed my swing a litlle it becomes more noticeable. Maybe that helps?
Thanx for the feedback. I don't know of many places where a person can go max sens. manual (so I doubt we'll be realistically getting those depths in the turfed parks ). But for purposes of just one coil size to another , all other factors being "equal", that's a relevant test . I don't have a WOT coil to try the same test on my exp. II right now. But I distinctly recall trying the wot coil in some hammered turf, and finding nothing that I didn't think the 10.5 could have got with my exp.
thanx again !
thanx again !
The subject deep on or off has been addressed on many threads in the past . It's not actually making the machine go deeper. It's just holding the pitch of the deeper ones longer , or sort of an "amplifier" for just the smaller beeps . So it's not making a "beep" where there wasn't one already there. The downsides become that it's harder to tell deep from shallow when using it. So some people prefer to use their ears to hear the fast small beeps, rather than loose the graduation effect of depths .
The subject deep on or off has been addressed on many threads in the past . It's not actually making the machine go deeper. It's just holding the pitch of the deeper ones longer , or sort of an "amplifier" for just the smaller beeps . So it's not making a "beep" where there wasn't one already there. The downsides become that it's harder to tell deep from shallow when using it. So some people prefer to use their ears to hear the fast small beeps, rather than loose the graduation effect of dep