I am using a sunray x-8 in the trashy area I hunt. I definitely found some targets that I missed the first time around with the larger coils. I can run the sensitivity higher with the smaller coil which makes up for some of the lost depth. I am thinking of adding a 5" coil to the mix (x-5)... I am not sure there is much difference between the 5 and 8 that would justify the $$$. Plus I can't imagine that tiny coil getting deep enough to hit the deeper silver coins I am after. Any feedback out there on this?
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5"coil vs 8" coil for safari
- Thread starter jdeiana
- Start date
Other than go somewhere that isn't trash infested, you can do the following:
1.. Use the 8" coil to get some of the older and deeper coins that you might be able to between the trash that you can't with the 11" coil.
2.. Go with a 5" coil and do a better job of picking between the trash than the 8", knowing that while you won't get quite the depth, you'll still be able to hit on higher-conductors between some of the trash that mask them with the 11" and 8" coils.
3.. Grid and clean a site, hunting in ALL METAL (0 iron mask) so as to remove ALL targets to include the desired coins, and the masking trash and good targets they hampered you getting before.
For maximum success, remove the maximum number of targets. #3
To be able to pull some keepers in very dense trash, you can't beat a small coil (#2) that is worked slow and methodically.
If you just want to do "better than average," use the medium-sized coil (#1) and cross your fingers. That's what you're doing now, so you have two choices left. Get a 5" coil and get what you can still,knowing some good finds will remain due to masking, or do you best to clean a site out.
There are times I like to use an 11" coil when I know that I can get the best depth and coverage when hunting a site that has very few to targets, especially those that can cause masking. Often I will use a mid-sized coil if there are an 'average' number of undesired targets AND I am working a site that I don't plan to revisit often. I'll get what I can. When trash is rather heavy, I slap on my lower rod w/5" coil and cherry pick all what I can. larger coils are almost a waste at such suites because a dense concentration of trash means I'll have a lot of crappy signals and little chance of making a good recovery. The 5" coil ups my odds.
if there is a vacant lot i can visit often, or if there is an old park where I can grid off an area and spend ample time on several trips to scour it of any metal, then I still start with a 5" or mid-sized coil. I'll be pulling all targets, but I will hear more decent hits in amongst the trash and that can alert me to using more care in a recovery. I'll still yank the litter form the site. When "all is clear" I make sure I work the 11" over it for any remaining deeper targets.
Now, here's the interesting part. I've been detecting for over 45 years, and I preferred (still do) to use coils in the 5"-7" size for most of my hunting. I have worked old lots and parks and homesteads and military encampments and such, either alone or with others, and have concluded the following. If a site has little to no trash at all, and if there are coins and tokens there in honest the 5"-8' range, a larger coil like an 11" ought to do just fine. However ... I have also found that most of the time, even at older sites, unless there has been a lot of ground disruption (plowing for example) or a lot of deposition, good targets just are not all that deep.
I have worked with others to clean a site out, most of us using coils in the 4
1.. Use the 8" coil to get some of the older and deeper coins that you might be able to between the trash that you can't with the 11" coil.
2.. Go with a 5" coil and do a better job of picking between the trash than the 8", knowing that while you won't get quite the depth, you'll still be able to hit on higher-conductors between some of the trash that mask them with the 11" and 8" coils.
3.. Grid and clean a site, hunting in ALL METAL (0 iron mask) so as to remove ALL targets to include the desired coins, and the masking trash and good targets they hampered you getting before.
For maximum success, remove the maximum number of targets. #3
To be able to pull some keepers in very dense trash, you can't beat a small coil (#2) that is worked slow and methodically.
If you just want to do "better than average," use the medium-sized coil (#1) and cross your fingers. That's what you're doing now, so you have two choices left. Get a 5" coil and get what you can still,knowing some good finds will remain due to masking, or do you best to clean a site out.
There are times I like to use an 11" coil when I know that I can get the best depth and coverage when hunting a site that has very few to targets, especially those that can cause masking. Often I will use a mid-sized coil if there are an 'average' number of undesired targets AND I am working a site that I don't plan to revisit often. I'll get what I can. When trash is rather heavy, I slap on my lower rod w/5" coil and cherry pick all what I can. larger coils are almost a waste at such suites because a dense concentration of trash means I'll have a lot of crappy signals and little chance of making a good recovery. The 5" coil ups my odds.
if there is a vacant lot i can visit often, or if there is an old park where I can grid off an area and spend ample time on several trips to scour it of any metal, then I still start with a 5" or mid-sized coil. I'll be pulling all targets, but I will hear more decent hits in amongst the trash and that can alert me to using more care in a recovery. I'll still yank the litter form the site. When "all is clear" I make sure I work the 11" over it for any remaining deeper targets.
Now, here's the interesting part. I've been detecting for over 45 years, and I preferred (still do) to use coils in the 5"-7" size for most of my hunting. I have worked old lots and parks and homesteads and military encampments and such, either alone or with others, and have concluded the following. If a site has little to no trash at all, and if there are coins and tokens there in honest the 5"-8' range, a larger coil like an 11" ought to do just fine. However ... I have also found that most of the time, even at older sites, unless there has been a lot of ground disruption (plowing for example) or a lot of deposition, good targets just are not all that deep.
I have worked with others to clean a site out, most of us using coils in the 4
Thisoldgoldchaser
New member
I have a stie that I have started working..have only spent a few hours so far on it. Its an old homestead site but was occupied until about the mid 1960's before being abandoned. It is so packed with trash that in the few hours I have detected there so far, I have not found one coin. YET !! To my knowledge, no one has ever detected there, nor to the knowledge of the land owner. BUT, doesnt mean that someone hasnt done a sneak in hunt or two on it. But I have my doubts. We are pretty isolated out here and there arent that many detectorists out this way. And there are plenty of these types of places around so it wouldnt be overhunted by any means.
Anyway, I am facing the same situation and the same choices. I do have the smaller coils, or will have, to get between some of the trash, or go the all metal route and dig everything.
I figure I will just dig everything. I am going to plot out one area and just go over it till I have dug everything in it, then go on to another plot and do the same. Its a temptation to move fast and to go ahead and skip to another spot on the place, but I know the coins are there. But the amount of trash in it has floored me. I expected alot of iron trash. Thats normal on a farm. But this is so bad that I will admit to being discouraged. But I know there are coins there. And maybe more. There are rumors. But I am marking off areas and will dig everything in those spots till its clean. I will do that in a couple of plots on the place and once done, see what I have come up with in that time and decide then If I want to continue.
Anyway, I am facing the same situation and the same choices. I do have the smaller coils, or will have, to get between some of the trash, or go the all metal route and dig everything.
I figure I will just dig everything. I am going to plot out one area and just go over it till I have dug everything in it, then go on to another plot and do the same. Its a temptation to move fast and to go ahead and skip to another spot on the place, but I know the coins are there. But the amount of trash in it has floored me. I expected alot of iron trash. Thats normal on a farm. But this is so bad that I will admit to being discouraged. But I know there are coins there. And maybe more. There are rumors. But I am marking off areas and will dig everything in those spots till its clean. I will do that in a couple of plots on the place and once done, see what I have come up with in that time and decide then If I want to continue.
Carolina Phil
New member
how does its required sweep speed compare to the Explorers required sweep speed, when using the same size coils. Is it about the same?
need to use it a bit more side-by-side with an SE or SE Pro to really determine any subtle, specific differences.
I have a couple of friends who favored the Explorer II and SE/SE Pro over the E-trac due to the terrible (our opinion) rod angle and display/control pod angle, and it just seemed to work ... different. We know a couple of guys who work their Explorers at about the speed most XLT or XL Pro users would hunt at, I always make it a point to try and determine the best sweep speed with any particular model based upon the particular site challenges I am dealing with.
What I like about the Safari over the various Explorers is that it has "ample" operator control without a lot of fluff. It's just a very basic, decent-working 'Explorer' of sorts. The E-Trac is just an upgraded Explorer. All are similar FBS operating models and can be as simple (Safari) or complex (all the rest) as the operator chooses.
What I like about the Safari is the quick-to-select High or Low trash level, and I will usually opt for a different model with a smaller coil if I am working a "trashy" site. At times I'll swing the Safari with the 11" Pro coil in "moderate" trash conditions, but I prefer to use it for hunting sites that have a sparse amount of trash.
Due to my health I can't hunt with an Explorer for long periods so I prefer to opt for it when I work old parks or some nice old neighborhood lawns. As such, I make it a choice for some serious "silver shooting" and I tailor my sweep speed to the environment I am hunting. I did the same with with the Explorer XS (2), Explorer II (2), and Explorer SE Pro's I had. I didn't like a fast, broad sweep. Instead, I make a slower and methodical sweep of about 4', occasionally about 5' tops, on a side-to-side sweep. I like slow, comfortable, overlapping sweeps. It doesn't matter which make or model I am hunting with. So, I will say that the Safari is about as "comfortable" as any Explorer Similar, if using similar settings for trash and recovery speed, and when swept similarly.
Did that confuse you? It almost did me ... and I know what I am trying to say!
Let's just say I like to find the best, most efficient sweep speed with any model in hand for the control settings, coil in use, and site conditions. Thus, it can vary.
Monte
I have a couple of friends who favored the Explorer II and SE/SE Pro over the E-trac due to the terrible (our opinion) rod angle and display/control pod angle, and it just seemed to work ... different. We know a couple of guys who work their Explorers at about the speed most XLT or XL Pro users would hunt at, I always make it a point to try and determine the best sweep speed with any particular model based upon the particular site challenges I am dealing with.
What I like about the Safari over the various Explorers is that it has "ample" operator control without a lot of fluff. It's just a very basic, decent-working 'Explorer' of sorts. The E-Trac is just an upgraded Explorer. All are similar FBS operating models and can be as simple (Safari) or complex (all the rest) as the operator chooses.
What I like about the Safari is the quick-to-select High or Low trash level, and I will usually opt for a different model with a smaller coil if I am working a "trashy" site. At times I'll swing the Safari with the 11" Pro coil in "moderate" trash conditions, but I prefer to use it for hunting sites that have a sparse amount of trash.
Due to my health I can't hunt with an Explorer for long periods so I prefer to opt for it when I work old parks or some nice old neighborhood lawns. As such, I make it a choice for some serious "silver shooting" and I tailor my sweep speed to the environment I am hunting. I did the same with with the Explorer XS (2), Explorer II (2), and Explorer SE Pro's I had. I didn't like a fast, broad sweep. Instead, I make a slower and methodical sweep of about 4', occasionally about 5' tops, on a side-to-side sweep. I like slow, comfortable, overlapping sweeps. It doesn't matter which make or model I am hunting with. So, I will say that the Safari is about as "comfortable" as any Explorer Similar, if using similar settings for trash and recovery speed, and when swept similarly.
Did that confuse you? It almost did me ... and I know what I am trying to say!
Let's just say I like to find the best, most efficient sweep speed with any model in hand for the control settings, coil in use, and site conditions. Thus, it can vary.Monte
Carolina Phil
New member
I've mulled over getting one a time or two and I'm curious about it, and I know you've had experience with both. Proper sweep speed can be difficult to learn, but is important to obtain the most effective results, of course.
Now on each end you lose about 1/4 inch for the wiring wrap. So over all your using about 6" of hunting area down the middle.. This 6" is at full power and not a great deal of depth is lost like with the small 5" coils.... You can power up too and get max depth with Minelab 8" coil. That has been my experience with Minelab 8". All may not agree. It works great in trashed areas too.
Thisoldgoldchaser
New member
Elton, you are right in your size estimates, but the thing about it is this, you are going to get a smaller footprint, both physical and electronically, with the 5 inch, which is what you are looking for in a high trash area. Because it physically see's a smaller area, hence smaller amount of trash. The halo of the coil though, be it 5 inch or 8 or 9 inch is going to extend beyond the dimensions of the coil. Try bringing in a large piece of steel or iron in to an active coil sitting flat on the ground. Bring it towards the outer edge. The detector is going to start seeing that metal...depending on the size/composition and other factors, several inches before you would touch the outer caseing of the coil. That is the difference between the coil sizes. Smaller/larger physical footprint, smaller/larger magnetic footprint.
But basically thats why smaller coils work better in high trash areas. That you can use a larger coil effectively in the same situation is more a tribute to your skill, I think, than anything else. You are experienced at it...and it shows then in your ability to use a larger coil effectively where someone else would need to use a smaller one to achieve the same result. One of these days, may we all have the same ability, the same skill one of these days. Just something that comes with time.
Like with DD coils, between round or the eliptical shaped ones. The design/shape has a big effect on how the coil see's. How it projects the magnetic field, the shape that field takes. Hard to explain I guess. And not sure I have it all figured out myself. No expert for sure.
But basically thats why smaller coils work better in high trash areas. That you can use a larger coil effectively in the same situation is more a tribute to your skill, I think, than anything else. You are experienced at it...and it shows then in your ability to use a larger coil effectively where someone else would need to use a smaller one to achieve the same result. One of these days, may we all have the same ability, the same skill one of these days. Just something that comes with time.
Like with DD coils, between round or the eliptical shaped ones. The design/shape has a big effect on how the coil see's. How it projects the magnetic field, the shape that field takes. Hard to explain I guess. And not sure I have it all figured out myself. No expert for sure.
Monte pretty much covered it very well .....I am just starting out detecting, and what I have noticed more than anything when I bought my X-5 coil for my Safari was the fact that it was NOT nearly as noisy as the larger stock coil since there were less targets beting introduced into the phones ....Yes , the stock coil can go deeper, but also allows so many more targets to come into your phones, and the masking is UNBELIEVABLE with the larger coil .... It's like I'm listening to an orchestra with the larger coil and missing a lot of the individual players , and I'm hearing each individual instrument doing a solo with the smaller coil .... I may not be as deep as the stock coil, but I can get very close as i am able to bump up the sensitivity higher on the smaller coil ..... I can hear EXAXTLY what's there wtihout the masking .....There were so many targets that I missed with the larger coil .... They have it right when they say that the smaller coil works better in trashy area's ......Wide open area's like beaches or the like are great for the larger coil were you can benefit from it ....but the smaller coil works wonders if you TAKE YOUR TIME and work the area methodically ...You will not miss much with the smaller coil, but you will be moving slower and will have less of an area of coil .... For the small amount of depth you will loose , you will surely gain a much better seperation of targets and a LOT less masking .... In conclusion , I think you will end up with more targets with the smaller coil in trashier area's if you take your time to find them ....Jim
Changing the coil does make a very big difference in your finds especially if you are relatively new at it. I would argue it is much easier to hunt with small coil for the beginner. The 8" is working for me. I also have a 5" that I have not even used yet. But will.
I was out in my coin garden this past weekend with the SUNRAY x-8 and the exclerator 12x10 SEF. I was doing much better on targets with x-8. Most of the targets were 6" to 7". Much more solid and repeatable signals with the x-8 which I can run at a a higher sensitivity that the 10x12 SEF. Yes I am sure a lot of it has to do with the fact that the larger SEF is a more advanced user coil - but until I get to the advanced skill level, I will mostly be using the x-8.
Anyone had a any luck with 8x6 SEF coil?
I was out in my coin garden this past weekend with the SUNRAY x-8 and the exclerator 12x10 SEF. I was doing much better on targets with x-8. Most of the targets were 6" to 7". Much more solid and repeatable signals with the x-8 which I can run at a a higher sensitivity that the 10x12 SEF. Yes I am sure a lot of it has to do with the fact that the larger SEF is a more advanced user coil - but until I get to the advanced skill level, I will mostly be using the x-8.
Anyone had a any luck with 8x6 SEF coil?
Thisoldgoldchaser
New member
Idelana, I havent used the SEF coil. I have pretty much stuck with either the stock coils or the detector maker made coils. I do have an excellerator 6 inch coming to use with my Safari so am anxious to try it out. I want to use the stock coil first in one spot that is high trash and then switch over to the 6 inch and see how it does. I know its going to see between the trash compared to the bigger stock coil. But I dont have a way of comparing it to the same or similar sized coil made elsewhere. But I everyone I have heard from that uses them say they get better depth with them. And even one inch extra can make a big difference.
Thank you for reminding me.. "So all you readers", from the stand point of footprint Dennis is absolutely right. I was just looking at the depth advantage of the Minelab 8" coil. I stand corrected. With practice, you can get better depth with the 8"..but tighter coverage with the 5"... That will give you the advantage as Dennis stated.