Find's Treasure Forums

Welcome to Find's Treasure Forums, Guests!

You are viewing this forums as a guest which limits you to read only status.

Only registered members may post stories, questions, classifieds, reply to other posts, contact other members using built in messaging and use many other features found on these forums.

Why not register and join us today? It's free! (We don't share your email addresses with anyone.) We keep email addresses of our users to protect them and others from bad people posting things they shouldn't.

Click here to register!



Need Support Help?

Cannot log in?, click here to have new password emailed to you

Changed email? Forgot to update your account with new email address? Need assistance with something else?, click here to go to Find's Support Form and fill out the form.

A higher HF coil

therover

Well-known member
Not sure if this question/topic has been talked about before.

With the advent of other manufactures creating units running in higher the higher frequency range (30kHz, 60kHz) and units having HF coils in that range as well, do you think Minelab will make a few coils for the X-Terra in those ranges or are we seeing the end of the X-Terra as we know it.
 

Old Longhair

Crazy Ol' Foole
Staff member
It's not that simple. Minelab can't simply make higher frequency coils for Xterra's. The firmware isn't there to support frequencies other than what we have.
That said, the Xterra isn't going away anytime soon. Just think about how many iterations of the Explorer we've seen. I don't think that we'll see the same sort of evolution in the Xterra line as the Explorer, but there have already been two newer machines that incorporated aspects of the technology pioneered by the Xterra, and there will likely be more yet.
 

metalpopper

New member
Old Longhair said:
It's not that simple. Minelab can't simply make higher frequency coils for Xterra's. The firmware isn't there to support frequencies other than what we have.
That said, the Xterra isn't going away anytime soon. Just think about how many iterations of the Explorer we've seen. I don't think that we'll see the same sort of evolution in the Xterra line as the Explorer, [size=large]but there have already been two newer machines that incorporated aspects of the technology pioneered by the Xterra, and there will likely be more yet.[/size]

********************************​

Interesting comment LH....Can you expand on that?

Which Detectors?.....and aspect of 705 technology involved?
.................

P.S.

As LH said, the creation of a newer, higher frequency coil, would itself be costly; also limited in its intended target group, AND also, require a software upgrade to the 705's operating system.....IF INDEED THE PRESENT 705's CIRCUITRY's CHIPS COULD HANDLE THE (unspecified) HIGHER FREQUENCY?

The Minelab's EQUINOX is one of the probable new detectors that LH inferred in his reply.......BUT that detector, in general terms, does not utilize 705 technology.

The NOX has two modes.....PI (Pulse Induction; (varied Pulse Widths) and subsequent algorithms to process the response train...weighting.)....Alternatively, Frequency Domain, for SINGLE frequency operation.........matt
 

jmaclen

Well-known member
The original Go-Find series and the upgraded newer Go-Find 22, 44 and 66 use the X-Terra VFlex technology.

It is my understanding that Minelab will not be coming out with any new single frequency VLF detector models. The Gold Monster 1000 was the last. All of the new Minelab VLFs will supposedly be simultaneous multi-frequency.

The combination of frequency domain and time domain in the Equinox is a very real (I don't pretend to understand it!!!!) aspect of its Multi I (ferrous target processing) and Q (non-ferrous target) processing on the receive signal end of things. Really amazing.........

Just a personal note to you metalpopper, when you use bold fonts, bright colors and especially bold CAPITAL letters it feels like you are shouting at me. I personally don't like it very much and it makes it hard for me to objectively read your comments.

Jeff
 

Old Longhair

Crazy Ol' Foole
Staff member
The aspects of Xterra technology employed by other machines that I was referring to are the (generally speaking) digital technology originally pioneered with the Xterra, as well as the Smart Coil™ technology employed by the CTX 3030 and the Equinox.
 

metalpopper

New member
jmaclen said:
The original Go-Find series and the upgraded newer Go-Find 22, 44 and 66 use the X-Terra VFlex technology.

It is my understanding that Minelab will not be coming out with any new single frequency VLF detector models. The Gold Monster 1000 was the last. All of the new Minelab VLFs will supposedly be simultaneous multi-frequency.

Matt to Jeff;

The above 'highlighted example I've used on your reply, is meant to indicate the section of your comments that I question.

.All the original aspects of your post, I accept; and subsequently concentrate on the highlighted section,.(as follows.)

You use the terminology ' Minelab's VLF(?)... then relate it to their 'simultaneous multi-frequency...
To me, that is inference is wrong. Minelab's 'Multi-frequency is FBS technology; whereas VLF (in my opinion) is the old designation relating to Frequency Domain detecting technology. (i.e. up to 30 Kilo-hertz continuous-wave transmissions.)
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

The next section of your post 'highlighted' is that which I wish to focus on:-

The combination of frequency domain and time domain in the Equinox is a very real (I don't pretend to understand it!!!!) aspect of its Multi I (ferrous target processing) and Q (non-ferrous target) processing on the receive signal end of things. Really amazing...

Jeff, here I highlight an error in your post....Take note;- I Q technology; [size=large]'I'[/size] relates to the Immediateness part of the target's response; whereas [size=large]'Q'[/size] relates to the QUADRATURE (90 degrees of time-delay in the target's signal......Remember, we are dealing with TIME DOMAIN technology..(NOT VLF).

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,​
,

Just a personal note to you metalpopper, when you use bold fonts, bright colors and especially bold CAPITAL letters it feels like you are shouting at me. I personally don't like it very much and it makes it hard for me to objectively read your comments.

Jeff

My apologies to you Jeff, for my 'irritable presentation' methods', and I thank you for your comment. Alas, it's a reflection of my attempts to focus reader's understanding of what wording in a post it is that I am relating to..... All the rest is accepted.

Best regards ..matt
 

jmaclen

Well-known member
Hi Matt, thank you for you kind words of explanation for you writing style and for accepting my personal dislikes. I am a retired teacher and taught Music and Geology/Mineralogy at a really wonderful private K-12 school for 27 years in the US. I am not an engineer or physicist. I love gold prospecting and until recently I could only do that during holidays and an occasional Saturday. Now my time for prospecting is only dependent on the weather and my 64 year old pain level.
I used the X-Terra 705 and later the Gold Monster 1000 for prospecting for awhile and then eagerly moved on to the Equinox 800 after it arrived on the scene. I like to know my detectors as best I can so I do lots of research in my own simple minded way.

To respond to your two highlighted problems with my statements I have pasted together a little of what many people, who are either anti-Minelab or just don't want to believe the Equinox is actually for real, would call hype. To me it is a factual treasure of information that I have studied from Tom Dankowski and from Steve Herschbach's wonderful Detector Prospector website. Both of these very intelligent gentlemen consider Multi IQ and the Equinox to be Hybrid VLF technology as does Minelab in their publications. Some of this comes from Minelab Equinox Mult IQ Explained which is a Minelab publication. Here is the "Hype"

The Multi-IQ transmit signal used in EQUINOX is a complex waveform where multiple frequencies are combined in a very dissimilar way than our proven BBS/FBS technology in Excalibur II / Safari / E-TRAC / CTX 3030 detectors. Multi-IQ is not a derivative or evolution of BBS/FBS. Multi-IQ is a DIFFERENT method of simultaneous multi-frequency metal detection. 

We can go to a statement from Dr Philip Wahrlich, our principal technology physicist, about a key difference of Multi-IQ compared to the demodulation taking place in conventional single frequency VLF detectors:
“Within the Multi-IQ engine, the receiver is both phase-locked and amplitude-normalised to the transmitted magnetic field – rather than the electrical voltage driving the transmitted field. This field can be altered by the mineralisation in the soil (in both phase and amplitude), so if the receiver was only phased-locked to the driving voltage, this would result in inaccurate target IDs and a higher audible noise level. Locking the receiver to the actual transmitted field, across all frequencies simultaneously (by measuring the current through the coil) solves these issues, creating a very sensitive AND stable detector” Precisely measuring these extremely small current variations is quite remarkable if you consider the levels involved. It’s actually parts per billion, or nanoamp signals, we are talking about here!

“For each frequency the detector transmits and receives there are two signals which can be extracted which we refer to as I and Q. The Q signal is most sensitive to targets, while the I signal is most sensitive to iron content. Traditional single-frequency metal detectors use the Q signal to detect targets, and then use the ratio of the I and Q signals to assess the characteristics of the target and assign a target ID. The problem with this approach is that the I signal is sensitive to the iron content of the soil. The target ID is always perturbed by the response from the soil, and as the signal from the target gets weaker, this perturbation becomes substantial. With some simplification here for brevity, if a detector transmits and receives on more than one frequency, it can ignore the soil sensitive I signals, and instead look at the multiple Q signals it receives in order to determine a target ID. That way, even for weak targets or highly mineralized soils, the target ID is far less perturbed by the response from the soil. This leads to very precise target IDs, both in mineralized soils and for targets at depth.”

hope this helps explain why I use the term VLF when referring to the Equinox and how Minelab has gone beyond the typical use of the terms Immediateness and Quadrature to describe target responses and signals. My brain can only handle small bits of this at a time so I am signing out of this discussion and do not want to go into a dialogue with you any further, continue to highjack the original topic or test Old Longhair's patience too much! Send me a PM if you wish.
thanks,
Jeff
 
Top